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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]

 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 28,357,472  

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Reponses: 61

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Question of the Week: 19 - 12/18/2000

What do YOU of our newest entry into the Presidential Political Pool?

Okay, the United States has a new President-Elect. And that's all that we here at TWV are gonna say about that! What do YOU think about our latest entry into the Presidential Political Pool?

 Reponses:   There are 61 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

I Seem To Be In The Minority Among My Pagan Friends And... Dec 17th. at 11:00:39 pm UTC

Fred McDonald (Barbarian) (Chicago, Illinois US) Age: 30 - Email

I seem to be in the minority among my Pagan friends and associates, but I'm not particularly upset that Bush is our new president elect. I don't like Bush, nor do I trust him any farther than I could comfortably spit a live rat, but from my point of view, Gore would be much worse.

A bit of perspective: Speaking as a member of the LBGT community, I'd say Gore has done very little for us, while making huge promises. As a Senator, Gore signed several anti-gay laws and cuddled up to such personages as Fred Phelps. Then when it was expedient for his political gains, he gladly courted us for our support.

At the very worse, Bush is neutral towards us whereas Gore has _used_ us and pretended to be our friend. Even if he was hostile to us, I'd rather have an open enemy than a false friend.

To be honest, I don't expect much from any president, Republican, Democrat or otherwise. Call me a cynic, but years of examples have led me to this. I don't expect much from Bush and I doubt I'd be disappointed.

My Oh My.....i Haven't Researched Enough On Bush To Make A... Dec 17th. at 11:42:53 pm UTC

Akima (so.portland, Maine US) Age: 29 - Email

My oh my.....I haven't researched enough on Bush to make a real comment, but have heard that Texas has been made the worst state, environmentally, since he has held office there. I don't know how true this is but if it is, this is obviously a concern of all people, not just Pagans. I have also heard that he has downtalked the Pagan and Wiccan beliefs and traditions. Again I don't know how true this is but if it is then so be it.....he has joined a bandwagon. BUT, mostly what I hear is how this will be bad to Pagans. I personally can't see where Bush in office will affect us. Sure he may be a jerk, an idiot, or some of the other terms I've heard to describe him, but I really don't think that any one man can effect Pagans any more than society already does. The ONLY way a President will EVER effect the Pagan lifestyle, is if he (or maybe someday, she) is of Pagan stature his or which case it could only be for the good. Just my opinion. Blessed Be all :)

This Election Is A Huge Wakeup Call To All Americans. While I... Dec 18th. at 2:18:18 am UTC

Trish Telesco (Western, New York US) Age: 40 - Email

This election is a HUGE wakeup call to all Americans. While I am not happy with the outcome, if nothing else the situations in this election made us intimately aware that our voting system needs a dramatic change and upgrade in order that a person's vote truly counts for *something* other than trash. To see thousands of votes tossed out without a thought...errors made, and votes being "lost" means that for years people have been getting into local and perhaps even US offices who may not have actually deserved the post by vote tally. I am personally taking an active writing stance to senate, congress, and any other leaders who might listen asking for action to fix this problem.

Being A Texan By Choice One Would Automatically Assume I Wanted The... Dec 18th. at 7:28:49 am UTC

Athelwolfe (Garland, Texas US) Age: 37 - Email

Being a Texan by choice one would automatically assume I wanted the hometown kid to win but in light of his comments re: whether witchcraft is a religion or not I couldn't bring myself to support him. In this race I found a lot to like and dislike about all 4 four candidates but finally ended up voting my conciense. Now that "W" as they call him here locally has won I took a look at how the house and senate are split up and from what I see once you mix in the hard feelings about the vote count I think we are in for 4 years of gridlock. I don't see either side being able to push through any major changes in the status quo, not even in the justices appointed to the supreme court. (which had been a major worry of mine, don't need the court packed with the far rights hardliners any more than we need it packed with those from the left) A supreme court with balance and moderates from both sides is what we need to maintain the rights we have gained. With things split so evenly I don't see "W" being able to do a lot of damage despite his personal beliefs, and one could hope that he can put those aside in the interest of what's best for ALL americans.

I Do Not Believe That George W. Bush Is The True Choice... Dec 18th. at 11:03:41 am UTC

Amethyst (Lynnwood, Washington US) Age: 42 - Email

I do not believe that George W. Bush is the true choice of the people. He won by having his brother, Jeb Bush, fix the election in Florida, by spreading outrageous lies with the millions he received from his wealthy contributors, and finally, with the help of a conservative Supreme Court. Now he wants us all to forget what really happened.
I doubt if he'll be able to accomplish much because of the divided House and Senate and because so many people are angry about how he "won."
I also doubt he would be able hurt Pagans. In fact his plan to allow government funding for "faith-based" programs could backfire. I suggest that if Bush is successful in passing such legislation, Pagans be the first in line with their hands out. We can certainly come up with some better ideas than a lot of fundamentalist Christian groups I've seen.

As Some Of The Other Postings Confirm, Gridlock Has Never Sounded So... Dec 18th. at 12:07:46 pm UTC

Cat (Asheville, North Carolina US) Age: 33

As some of the other postings confirm, gridlock has never sounded so good...if only I could believe in it. I'm with one of the other postings below in believing that the place where Bush could do long-term irreparable damage is in environmental regulation (or lack thereof.) Our country's regulations are weak to begin with, and in the already weak regulation system enforcement is the weakest link. President-elect Bush's environmental record is indescribably bad; it seems likely that he'll appoint one of the Alaskan senators of equally bad records to be his Secretary of the Interior. I doubt even Bush is really foolish enough to do anything dramatically or visibly "anti-pagan", and if you read Molly Ivins' book, you'll know that his relations with the religious right appear to involve more political expediency than personal conviction. But there are areas in which he can hurt us all much worse than on our religious freedoms, which the Constitution guarantees. Drilling for oil in the arctic preserves; vetos on any higher mile-per-gallon standards for automobiles; higher rather than lower subsidies to the timber and mining industries (still operating under nineteenth century law); continued refusals to ratify global warming reduction measures; reduced (or eliminated) foreign aid and family planning spending--all of these are well within his powers with even the slim margin of control Republicans have. While the Senate is fifty-fifty, it'll be Cheney who breaks those ties; and while the House is close to that, the margin of control is in the hands of Republicans, and Bush can sign those bills. And the Constitution doesn't guarantee us clean air, drinkable water, or immunity from the Greenhouse Effect. Rising oceans and million-acre wildfires aren't affected by the Constitution; they're affected by what we do NOW. And four years is long enough to cause damage that a century won't mend, if Bush really gets going.

May I encourage everyone to write to his or her representatives and senators about these issues, and keep writing? You don't have to be a pagan to get cancer or asthma or emphysema from air pollution, or to suffer from sprawl, or to be burnt out by wildfires that spread due to poor logging practices, or to get flooded out (if you live near a coast) as the oceans rise; but I'd like to think that unlike our representatives, we care about--and think about--the future more than five years down the road.

Breaking News: God Overrules Supreme Court Verdict Bush To Be Smitten Later... Dec 18th. at 6:40:01 pm UTC

a friend (Macon, Georgia US) Age: 27


In a stunning development this morning, God invoked the "one nation, under God" clause of the Pledge of Allegiance to overrule last night's Supreme Court decision that handed the White House to George Bush.

"I'm not sure where the Supreme Court gets off, " God said this morning on a rare Today Show appearance, "but I'm sure as hell not going to lie back and let Bush get away with this bullshit."

"I've watched analysts argue for weeks now that the exact vote count in Florida 'will never be known.' Well, I'm God and I DO know exactly who voted for whom. Let's cut to the chase: Gore won Florida by exactly 20, 219 votes."

Shocking political analysts and pundits, God's unexpected verdict overrules the official Electoral College tally and awards Florida to Al Gore, giving him a 289-246 victory. The Bush campaign is analyzing God's Word for possible grounds for appeal.

"God's ruling is a classic over-reach, " argued Bush campaign strategist Jim Baker. "Clearly, a divine intervention in a U.S. Presidential Election is
unprecedented, unjust, and goes against the constitution of the state of

"Jim Baker's a jackass, " God responded. "He's got some surprises ahead of him, let me tell you. HOT ones, if you know what I mean."

God, who provided the exact vote counts for every Florida precinct, explained that bad balloting machinery and voter confusion were no grounds to give the White House to "a friggin' idiot."

"Look, only 612 people in Palm Beach County voted for Buchanan. Get real! The rest meant to vote for Gore. Don't believe me? I'll name them: Anderson, Pete; Anderson, Sam, Jr.; Arthur, James; Barnhardt, Ron..."

Our Lord then went on to note that he was displeased with George W. Bush's prideful ways and announced that he would officially smite him today. In an act of wrath unlike any reported since the Book of Job, God has taken all of Bush's goats and livestock, stripped him of his wealth and possessions, sold his family into slavery, forced the former presidential candidate into hardlabor in a salt mine, and afflicted him with deep boils.

---from the Michael Moore website (

W. Just Couldn't Play Fair. The Clinton Haters Just Had To Have... Dec 18th. at 7:16:57 pm UTC

dream walker (kent, Washington US) Age: 53

W. just couldn't play fair. The Clinton haters just had to have their revenge. I hope they enjoy it! I think we should all give this new president all the respect and cooperation that Clinton has had for the last eight years. Constant investigation and heckling. The people should show that THEY know what the constitution stands for and will not accept any group who repress religions or cut off food to little children or defile the environment. First we stand up and be counted and then as soon as possible vote the other way.. Fifty or a 100 years from now they will know that americans do not like "rigged" elections..Thats the way the bill of rights got its start.

So, I Couldn't Vote. I'm Underage, Sadly, And For Some Odd Reason... Dec 18th. at 7:25:18 pm UTC

Pandora (Orlando, Florida US) Age: 15 - Email

So, I couldn't vote. I'm underage, sadly, and for some odd reason the US hasn't conformed to my idea of letting people who are smart enough vote when they are 15 years old. However, I was involved in this election from beginning to end, as I adore politics.

First, I'll come right out and say it so a bunch of people can roll their eyes and deem me a "bad pagan". I supported Bush. I liked, and still like, Bush. I believe that Bush was the best man in the race. Regardless of his personal opinions about my faith and anything else, I still like him. And I'll say one more thing that would probably get me impaled on a athame blade at a pagan gathering nowadays...I didn't like Gore. I really didn't like Gore.

I'm in the un/lucky position of not only being a pagan and a Republican, but also a Floridian. So now I ask that you disregard my young age and just hear my opinions of this.

I get irked when I hear 'Oh, Jeb Bush stole the election for his brother.' How, pray tell? And if my governor is capable of stealing an election for his brother and his obvious choice for the presidency, why is it out of the question that one of Gore's supporters who happen to be governors stole the election in their state? I fail to see why when a Republican wins something, he wins unfairly, but when a Democrat wins something, he wins fairly. Double standards are truly at work here.

Now, about Dubbya's opinions of my religion. It may make me a "bad" pagan for saying it, but I really couldn't care less what he, or anyone else, thought of my beliefs. Come on, people, let's be realistic. Do you actually think that big bad Bush will single-handedly tie you all to stakes and burn you, and only blessed Al Gore can defeat this evil monster? Bush is Christian. That's obvious. And a main tenet of the Christian beliefs is that all other faiths are wrong. We have to accept that that is their belief, and none of our whining will change it. So Bush may not agree with your religion. So what? Gore is a Christian, too. So was Clinton . They, too, believe that we are inferior. Don't forget that. However, his personal beliefs have nothing to do with the way he will run our country. As I said before...Clinton was Christian, but he did not persecute other faiths. I see no reason why we should expect Dubbya to not follow suit.

And that's Pandora's say on the matter, even if it is "pagan-ly incorrect".

We Have A New President. Did Everyone Look Up The Previous Links... Dec 18th. at 8:18:29 pm UTC

Lunalinda (Columbus, Nebraska US) Age: 36 - Email

We have a new president. Did everyone look up the previous links on the Witches Vox to see what this new president thinks of Wicca? Scary that a man who does not consider Wicca to be a religion is now the 'supreme commander'. I hope that the Pagan and Wiccan community will be as informative as possible to help our new leader open his eyes a bit. It would help for him to be aware that there are many of us out here - and we vote too (I hope!). My biggest concern is that we don't go backwards. The Wiccan religion became a recognized religion in the United States in 1985 - lets hope that in the next few years that acceptance and the rights that accompany it are not reversed.

I Am Rather Anxious, To Be Honest. The Person That Unfortunately Has... Dec 18th. at 8:43:21 pm UTC

Luna SilverHawke (Nashville, Tennessee US) Age: 32

I am rather anxious, to be honest. The person that unfortunately has been placed in what is considered to be the American seat of power is a close minded, religion-bigot. If he has his way he would repeal, or at least edit the 1st Amendment to include only white Protestants, other beliefs need not apply. Well, maybe the Catholics, if they keep their booze and bread to themselves, possibly even Jews, well I mean Jesus was one for a while, wasn't he? But none of those weirdos. You know the ones, they don't believe in Satan and God the one almighty Jehovah, and of course they haven't "found" Jesus. Funny, never knew he was lost. In fact, I was under the impression he knew from the start what path to follow and was true to it, all the while respecting other beliefs as long as that person respected and showed respect for his. Like the Dalai Lama said, "religious tolerance is called for as the variety of people in the world neccessitates the existence of a variety of religions in the world." As a pagan for more than a decade, this attitude of G.B., Jr. is very frightening.

Before All The Insanity Finally Breaks Out, Please Remember That George W... Dec 18th. at 10:10:18 pm UTC

Tanais (auburn, Washington US) Age: 20

Before all the insanity finally breaks out, please remember that George W. Bush is not going to be a strong president. Anyone can argue that we really haven't had a strong president in a long time. (how long is debatable) So what if Bush doesn't agree that Wicca is a religion. In all honesty he doesn't give us a second thought during the course of his day, so why do we? I understand he said publically that he doesn't agree we are following a religion but remember he is backed by the right-wing christians that would definately feel betrayed if Bush would have said anything else. Don't make Gore the white knight candidate either. While I thought he was the better candidate, and I did support him, he's just as weak as president as Bush is. I don't envy the task at hand for Bush. A split senate and an only marginally won house? That only means he won't be able to do anything contriversial if he wants any chance to get anything done. I disagreed with Bush not for his religion but for his economic outlook. I disagree with his tax cut plan and think it will fail and then the entire country will have to shelter the burden of another recession. I don't want to be all dark clouds. He does have a good track record of working with both parties to get some things done. I'm more then willing to get behind president Bush as I did President Clinton, Bush Sr., and even President Reagen. In my opinion Bush is going to have a miserable 4 years as president and then we will have another weak president that is unable to deal with most of the problems that the world faces. I give my hat off to Bush naming Powell to his staff and I do wish Bush all the luck in the world. I have a feeling he'll need it.

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