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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,720,215  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


No Title Mar 26th. at 3:21:34 pm UTC

Feribear (Western MA) Age: 30 - Email


I recently read something about anti-war protesters attacking a mother whose son is a Marine. They were cursing her and smashing their fists on the hood of her car, denting it. I was brought to tears because that could have been my mother who flies Air Force colors in her car because of my dad.

While I support the rights of free speech and expression and understand their frustration and anger at being told by our government that their voices don't matter, I cannot understand why some anti war protesters who demand peace incite violence. That sort of anger and "anti" thought process will not send the positive energy into the web that will end this conflict any sooner.

I will support and praise the groups that strip naked and make words (have you seen these folks? they are great! No violence, no shouting ... just a quiet statement about their feelings that gets positive attention) I will praise anyone who is pro-troops and speaks to bringing them home quickly and safely.

I can't group all anti-war protesters together as a violent mob, but I cannot stand with them either. I prefer to focus my energy on more positive outcomes ... the troops safe and home, the Iraqi people safe from Saddam Hussein, abundant food, water & medical supplies for everyone in the desert right now, supporting and comforting all the folks who are suffering because of the war.

I know that this must make me sound like a fluffy bunny, but I can feel their pain on the web and my first reaction is not to get angry but to help comfort them if I can.

PS - I wrote this first thing this morning and until now it has been my stance on the war ... it probably still will be once I cool down. But right now I am crazy angry. I am thinking about the soldiers that were murdered by Saddam Fedayeen as they were surrendering. I am thinking about the milions of people out of work because of a bad economy as Bush asks Congress for 75 *Billion* dollars to pay for this mess. This is the first time I have gotten really mad about the whole fiasco and I don't know who to get mad at!

So that is how my thoughts have changed about the war.
Apo a me ka ponumomi,
me


Fuzzy Bunnies Are Good Though!! Mar 26th. at 3:42:03 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Feribear, I am glad to hear that some are maintaining their focus on the important things. Our soldiers and civilians are our top priority (meaning pagans priority, not military so just sit down;-) ) and I agree those things that I am seeing about Fedayeen Saddam doing those kinds of guerilla tactics made me angry. It is hard to stay focused with the amount of divided minds in the world right now. I see people just shooting energy into all sorts of directions and that is causing alot of division in people. Lines are being drawn and no one wants to budge. I hope that one day we can fight fire with marshmellows and win. I hope that our troops quickly return to family members. And We will see a new Iraqi president. And despite all the yeah but this country did this and that that is the main focus I have and we must continue to do so. I am curious about the "convienient" sandstorms that line themselves infront of our troops and get stronger the closer we get to baghdad. Luckily those are now gone. But I would hate to think someone is trying to prevent troops from getting in just to proove an anti-war stance through magick. just a thought.


Well.. Mar 26th. at 3:52:40 pm UTC

Neko (Calgary, Canada) Age: 20 - Email


I was against this war before it happened. But now that it's happening it wouldn't be very productive to be still against it. That is the last sort of energies that the soilders need right now.

I think now that war is actually happening we need to stop focusing on the negativity of the situation and try to lend some positive healing energies to the situation in hopes that it will help the soilders from America and Britian. Hostility towards this situation will just make things worse I think.. Atleast that's my humble oppinion..

Hating something isn't going to fix it or stop it.. it's a useless expression.. It's better to try to put something positive into the situation, or atleast walk away with something positive we can learn and grow from. Even in these dark times there are lessons to be learned and new opportunities being presented..


HELL NO Mar 26th. at 4:49:21 pm UTC

DAN MAGICK (QUÉBEC CITY) Age: 43 - Email


No I have not changed my mind and since seeing what the war machine just did to that market in Bagdad I think that those who support this war are acomplices to the deaths of all who will die in this war.
If you care about the lives of the troops and their families you will march with us rather than supporting those who are getting killed and whining about how protesters are impolite.


Dan, Then Step Aside And Let The Rest Of Us Heal.. Mar 26th. at 5:08:08 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


If you really want to hold on to your hate, stand on the sidelines and tell all of us that people who support the war are the killers. That is your right as a free citizen, but don't get upset when you find yourself left in the dust. While the rest of us have moved on.


I Agree Mar 26th. at 5:31:30 pm UTC

Sarah (Massachusetts) Age: 14 - Email


I completely agree with what you're saying. I think protesting is an okay thing in some ways. As long as the protests don't get violent and valid I support it 100%. A violent anti war protest is plain stupid, yea that really gets the point across. You should be able to state your opinion publicly as long as you back it up with good reasoning.


:{!!!!! Mar 26th. at 6:14:20 pm UTC

MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) Age: 39 - Email


Resorting to name-calling??? Boy that's mature. Nothing sinks home the point that someone has no way with words faster than that!!!

This is a topic that is explosive to both points of view. Let us remember to at least be civil to each other. Neither side is right or wrong. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

A debate is not a personal attack.

Please try to follow the rules.


Just One Person's Opinion.... Mine Mar 26th. at 7:26:03 pm UTC

Trinity (TN) Age: 33 - Email


I am not necessarily for any war... HOWEVER, we must all remember what started this war. This war is not about the oil (which btw if you dont already know, we have tons of our own wells capped in case of a disater) , it is not about being the world police, and it is not about Bush politics. This war is about security. Yours, mine, and most of all the Iraqis. There are 3000+ American victims and millions of iraqi victims crying out from their grave to stop this madman! One's first thoughts may be 'well he will die soon, ' but that is JUST NOT THE CASE. He is in the process of training two of his sons to be even worse than he was! So why is it America's war? Good question. Could it be that this one man suports and incourages the kind of individuals that killed our countrymen? Could it be that we as AMERICANS lothe to see ANYONE be so mistreated (and especially by their own country) ? Or could it simply be that we are the only ones brave enough to go against world views and actually FIGHT for others in something that we KNOW they need desparetly but can not achieve without someone to help? Personally, I feel like it is a little of all three. I appreciate the fact that Bush was given to us and to the Iraqis. If Bush wasn't so ... stuborn (for lack of a better word) we may have averted a war, yes, but then what? Would Dallas be next. Maybe the Superbowl... who knows, I do know it would not just stop. I also know that as long as Saddam was in power we (and Iraqis) would be living in fear of what was to happen next.

As for the protesters, NO, under NO circumstances do I believe you should take away OUR basic American liberties!!! Especially when that is what this war is all about! I do feel however that if you are going to protest, be mature about it. People balk at the fact the war costs so much, yet it cost CA over $2 million dollars to have police on hand to handle the protests. If you need to protest against violence, how does being violent help your cause?!

Just like most who voice their opinion, I have had family members in Vietnam (where they have become severly disabled) and I have some over there now, so I too worry. It about broke my heart when I saw the film of the us POW soliders shot and terriorized. I hurt in a manner that not even I can fully understand. But we ALL must remember that if it weren't for these soldiers, like the ones that came before them who are WILLING to fight for what we all stand for, the US could easily turn into just another big and very ignorant country. I hope that this war is over soon, so that we can show the Iraqi people what we truly are and remove any doubt in thier mind about what America's intention is, but until then we need to stand together because it is obvious to me that other countries will not. And, one last thing, contrary to what the media portrays 76% of Americans are standing together in support of this war and our troops. So we are not quiet as divided as the world would want even us to believe.


No Easy Answers... Mar 26th. at 10:03:53 pm UTC

stone (ny) Age: 19 - Email


First off, I'd like to apologise to anyone who says they have been harassed by either antiwar or prowar demonstrators. I've been to the protests and I've seen it happen. I wish they would stop. They detract from the powerful message of everyone else who is trying to peacefully make a point.

Now on to what it kills me to say...

I recently had a discussion with a friend of mine who is pro-war, and he said that if we pull out of Iraq now, Saddam wins. I sadly stated what I had stated a month ago -- that if we invade Iraq then Saddam wins. Saddam knows that he can't possibly win this war, but he will use it to divide the world and foster world hatred towards Americans. It will become his rallying cry to Islamic fundamentalists to twist religion into perpetual war.

The government of the United States had an opportunity to say no, to say that we won't fight fire with fire, to say that we will not stoop to the level of Saddam. It has passed up this opportunity. No matter what happens now, Saddam has already won.

I still think about the events of 9/11 and grieve for the victims of that day. During the dark times that followed, I had relied on hope to sustain me. Hope that perhaps this tragedy would unite the world against hatred and violence. Today I sit quietly, wishing that hope would sustain me once more. But now I don't even know what to hope for.

May the Mother of us all look after her children...


*sigh* Mar 26th. at 10:16:03 pm UTC

Rowan (Annapolis, MD) Age: 14 - Email


I am against this war, I disagree with some impressions that this war is actually about civil Liberties, recently Vice president Cheney's old company, Haliburton recieved the contracts to put out the oil fires that will have resulted from the Scorched Earth program of Saddam Hussein's regime, they also recieved contracts for the oil after the war has ended. I am a protester, I was at an earlier protest before the war started and I went to the candlelight vigil in Washington DC, Most of the people that I met were pacifists, and nonviolent, a VERY VERY small amount of the protesters even consider throwing bottles most of us are for a nonviolent solution to this. I was recently at a protest while visiting my sister at her college in Pennsylvannia and she took me with , there was a prowar protest next to us, where people draped themselves in the American flag (which by the way is against the flag code, just for future reference) , and called us communists (I was never soo proud as that moment) . I have my own valid reasons for disagreeing with this war, which I woulld list here but it's too long I would actuallhy take a page or two (I know because in My Government class we're covering foreign Policy, so my gov teacher had us write an ECR (extended constructed response, basically a long paper) mine was 2 pages long typed. I realize one could claim that we are doing this for the Iraqi People, to give them a democracy, to stop the human rights violations and to get rid of a violent dictator, but the claim that Saddam Hussein caused 9/11 as I heard from one prowar protester, and the claim that Osama Bin Laden lives in Baghdad (as heard in a country song) are just ridiculous. In Iraq there areterrible conditions but my real problem is that I have not seen accurate proof that they prove to be a serious threat to our national Security, which is the case that our Gov. has made. well good night all and name calling in posting your views.. a little too involved with the emotions if your doing that ok, take a step back y'all.

In Love and light,
Rowan


This Is An Illegal War Mar 27th. at 3:45:12 am UTC

Igrayne (Barcelona, Spain) Age: 29 - Email


Yesterday 15 innocent people were killed just because they were shopping...in Bagdad. I wonder how Americans would feel if this had happened at one of their shopping malls! The so called "coalition" (a name they don't deserve) are bombing Irak against all international legality and only with oil in mind. This is not a war made to correct a dictator who's trespassing on UN resolutions (how many has Sharon ignored so far? I can't see anyone suggesting a military action against him. Not to mention all the dictators that are currently supported by the US/UK/Spain) . There is no serious link between Irak and Al Qaida and no proof of massive destruction weapons has been found so far (although I am pretty sure that the United States weapon industry must still keep the receipts from the ones they sold Saddam when he was supposed to be an ally) . This is not a flame against the United States, this is a call for true democracy, the one stemming from the mutual agreement and consensus between people. I am sick and indignant for what is going on here, and I can't believe anyone is buying the nonsense reasons the petrol lobby is using to kill people who have every right to have their own dreams and inspiration.


Here, Here Igrayne! Mar 27th. at 8:58:01 am UTC

Todd (Ontario, Canada) Age: 27 - Email


Yup, you are very much correct Igrayne. The United States sold Iraq most of what constituted their chemical and biological arsenal and know how to fabricate the stuff during their war with Iran. The US made this problem, they made Saddam, the perfect enemy of the Shaw of Iran with his secular Baath party. So in that sense I think it is only fitting that they should go in and clean up their own mess. Too bad that they had to drag the noble British in with 'em. So, it was also with Osama Bin Laden, backed by the US. His Mujahedeen the perfect enemy of the Soviets in that case, just another of Americas many, many enemies. So Bin Laden was a man made by the US, his forces trained in guerrila tactics and give "stinger" missiles which he used to great effect downing many of the USSR's Hind attack helicopters. What the US did not count on though, are their "created" warriors thinking for themselves after the intial enemy was conquered. Well they did that, they result being something that the US government hadn't counted on. Another problem the US created brought home. The very muslim fundamentalism that the US fostered and used to good effect against the "godless" Soviet "infidel" was the same fundamentalism that was the impetus for the attack on the US.

I wonder when the US will stop becoming their worst enemy? When will their leaders be forward thinking enough and learn the lessons it takes to back off? To stop backing militancy and extremely violent men? Even if they do have common enemies with the US. A common enemy doesn't necessarily mean that they will not be YOUR enemy too.

Oh yeah and I think you should go and attack North Korea next, then when that large and modern army is joined by China and nuclear war is threatened you can rely on all the friends the US now has! Oh wait! You have no friends of note anymore do you? (Chile LOL!) After Tony Blair is gone and the 76 percent "anti" voice in Britian is heard there you won't have the UK either. That is not the scenario you should be gunning for but it is the one that your "fearless" (but not very bright or articulate) leader has put you in. President Bush is certainly no Bismarck that is for sure!


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