Your browser does not support script

Pagan Perspectives

Weekly Question

Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

Views: [32,767]
Responses: [2,666]

The Rules
Note: The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.

For Further
Visit The

WitchVox List
of 242
'Net Sites:

Chat Boards
Email Lists
IRC Channels

Past Questions
112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

111. So, You’re Dead. Now What? - [59]

110. What’s Your Favorite Element? - [119]

109. The Broom Closet Revisited: What’s Your Current Occupancy Rate? - [129]

108. Do You Speak Pagan Geek? - [38]

107. Would You Be A Good ‘Reality Show’ Contestant? - [49]

106. What Is Your Inner Animal? - [127]

105. Are Pagans TOO Individualistic? - [56]

104. Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq? - [258]

103. What Are You Reading? - [95]

102. Do Interfaith Conferences/ Discussions Work? - [29]

101. Have You Made Any Extra Security Preparations? - [85]

100. Why Are You A Pagan or Heathen? - [142]

99. What Moon Phase Are You In? - [70]

98. Would You Live In A Haunted House? - [166]

97. What Natural Objects Are On Your Altar? - [103]

96. If You Were Granted Three Wishes... - [179]

95. How Do You Feel About War? - [153]

94. Who Would Make Your Pagan/Heathen Who’s Who List? - [91]

93. Should Pagans Apply For Federal Funds? - [56]

92. What Do You See in 2003? - [47]

90. Which Christmas Ghost Would You Like To Be? - [82]

89. Bah-Humbug! Are You Offended by Christmas? - [173]

88. Are We Alone in The Universe? - [67]

87. The Pagan Web 2002... Your likes? Dislikes? - [50]

86. How’s Your Gratitude Attitude? - [64]

85. What’s Your Motivation? - [97]

84. Between the Veils: What Did You See? - [80]

83. Time to Talk Politics and Elections… - [109]

82. Your Samhain/Beltaine Musings - [50]

81. ExCUSE Me! Has Common Courtesy Become A Thing of the Past? - [97]

80. Polytheist, Monotheist, Dualist or Other? - [104]

79. Have You Switched Pagan Paths? - [110]

78. Would You Take Part in a Public Event or Protest AS a Pagan? - [268]

77. Pot-Kettle: Do We Have Our Own Fundamentalists? - [91]

76. America 911: One Year Later. What's Changed? Are we Safer? - [103]

75. So What Do YOU Think of the Pagan Web? - [43]

74. What is/was your 2002 New Year's resolution - [23]

73. Do You Believe in Faeries? - [44]

72. Is 'Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men' Possible? - [28]

71. How Do YOU View the Balance of Light and Dark? - [22]

70. What's News? - [22]

69. What Are Your Favorite Yule Traditions or Memories? - [17]

68. Are You Wild About Harry? - [80]

67. What Is Music? - [18]

66. What Did You Do this Samhain? - [8]

65. What ARE the most "Frequently Asked Questions' About Witches? - [31]

64. What Are YOUR book/video/dvd Recommendations? - [119]

63. Have You Done Any Protection Spells or Workings? - [38]

62. What Are Your Thoughts On The Current "War on Terrorism"? - [77]

61. Are You Willing To Give Up Some Civil Liberties To Be Safe? - [69]

60. What About Those Pagan Leaders Again? - [289]

59. 911 America: Talking Through The Terror... - [969]

58. What Are Your Plans For Fall? - [21]

57. If You Were Stranded Alone On A Deserted Island... - [56]

56. What Would You Like to See at The Voice? - [65]

55. What Lies Beyond? - [28]

54. What is the connection between Spirit, Nature and Humankind? - [18]

53. What is 'Will' or 'Willpower'? - [19]

52. Have you ever been to a Pagan Festival? - [26]

51. What Did You Think of 'The Mists of Avalon"? - [44]

50. What's Your Magickal Focus? - [33]

49. Ending Religious Discrimination-What's It Gonna Take? - [41]

48. How Fares The First Amendment? - [20]

47. Are you a Talker or a Listener? - [14]

46. Predator and Prey - What Beasts Live Within You? - [44]

45. Who Do You Trust? - [22]

44. Do You Spend Money with Pagan Merchants? - [24]

43. What's On Your Balloon? - [52]

42. Is There An Energy Crisis? - [30]

41. What Makes You So Special? - [33]

40. What is Your Guilty Little Secret? - [101]

39. Who Are Your Gods? - [55]

38. What Are The Greatest Challenges That Pagans Face Today? - [35]

37. What's On Your Altar? - [45]

36. Should the United States Apologize to China - [32]

35. Pagan Web Surfing Likes/Dislike - [60]

34. What Are Your Views on Abortion, Euthanasia and Suicide? - [95]

33. What Is The Appropriate Response to Bigotry and Religious Hatred? - [108]

32. Why Are Kids Killing Kids? - [60]

31. Whassa Matter With Kids Today? - [71]

30. What Do You Support and Why Do You Support It? - [21]

29. How About Some New Holidays? - [39]

28. Where Did You Get Your Magickal Name? - [93]

27. Where Are The Pagan Social Programs? Do We Care? - [22]

26. What Do You Think About Bush's 'Faith-Based' Initiative Plan? - [87]

25. What Are The Boundaries? - [26]

24. What is Pagan History and What is Pagan Belief? - [44]

23. Who or What is a "Pagan Leader"? - [61]

22. What More Do You Want To Know About Paganism? - [45]

21. What is/was your New Year's resolution? - [19]

19. What do YOU of our newest entry into the Presidential Political Pool? - [61]

20. What have YOU done to trace your family history? - [11]

18. Your Gift, Craft and Holiday Celebration Ideas! - [43]

17. Does Older Equal Better? - [199]

16. What is the best gift that you ever received? - [28]

15. What are YOU Thankful For? - [87]

14. The Unresolved US Election - [263]

13. Divination - [29]

12. Pagan Choice for the y2k US Election - [129]

11. Hollywood Hype - [74]

10. Money and the Craft - [82]

9. Pagan Jokes and Humorous Stories - [37]

8. Misconceptions About Witches, Wiccans and Pagans - [63]

7. The Ethics of Magick and Spellwork - [43]

6. What are YOU planning for Mabon-Autumn Equinox? - [14]

5. Pagan books/web sites-dynamic or drivel? - [46]

4. The Broomcloset-In or Out?... What's YOUR View? - [181]

3. Church and State, Religion in School... What is YOUR View? - [122]

2. How Do You Define Witch/WitchCraft? - [42]

1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]

 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 25,096,513  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 122

Lurker/Post Ratio: 268 to 1

Question of the Week: 3 - 8/20/2000

Church and State, Religion in School... What is YOUR View?

Church and State, Religion in School... What is YOUR View?

 Reponses:   There are 122 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

I Believe No One Has The Right To Push Their Religion On... Aug 27th. at 12:16:28 pm EDT

sharon (ann arbor, Michigan US) Age: 18

I believe no one has the right to push their religion on anyone else, but they also do not have the right to oppress another's religion. If a child wishes to advocate his/her religion, then who's to stop them?
On the other hand, you cannot have people going around saying one religion is right or wrong.
So, yes, religion and expressions thereof should be allowed in school, but the teaching of religion, unless it an optional class, should not be allowed.

It Is My Feeling That All These People Fighting For School Prayer... Aug 27th. at 2:08:01 pm EDT

Jessica Antalek (Schenectady, New York US) Age: 26 - Email

It is my feeling that all these people fighting for school prayer are just pandering to the conservatives. It certainly does the faith no good for people to use it as a bone of contention, and it significantly cheapens the value of prayer. These folks know perfectly well that their God can listen to them even if they pray silently, so they are just using the issue as a way to make themselves look better! In the Christian bible there is a passage where god (either Jesus or Jehovah, I cannot remember if it was old or new testament) says that He is not impressed with those who make a big show of their faith and who pray loudly--that those who silently pray in the privacy of their homes are just as good, if not better! Where does this leave the school prayer issue? I believe that those who feel that it is absolutely essential to pray before a football game or before a test are capable of doing so silently, in a nondisruptive way. If they do not have this skill, then it is their spiritual leaders, not the schools, who are failing them.

I do remember one biology class where a fundamentalist Christian boy objected strongly to the teacher presenting evolution as a part of the class. The teacher gave him the option of leaving the classroom, but made it clear that it was expected as part of the test. The teacher, a very staunch Catholic who went to church every Sunday and very much loved God, is someone I have respected ever since I met him, and set a fine example of a Christian who can also believe in and enjoy science. He was capable of separating education and religion--I only knew of his religion because I got to know him after graduation, visiting him and his large and wonderful family every so often. I wish all Christians could learn from him example.

I believe personal religious symbols should be permitted, proselytizing not permitted. The difference? Wearing the symbol is a form of self-protection and a reminder to oneself of ones spirituality. Many times I have been close to making a decision, then have the weight of my valknot remind me of another factor in the choice I was about to make! Proselytizing is deliberately pushing one's religion on others, and that is not what people are at school for.

These people who are trying to put religion into the schools--do they realize what they are opening the door for? It is not simply a matter of exposing one's children to the influences of other deities, but other flavors of Christianity. "But mom, Johnny Smith is a Christian and HIS FAMILY says evolution is okay!" Once religion becomes a part of school, the kind of religion that the kids are learning may not be what the proponents of school prayer were after in the first place! By then it will be too late, and we will all be screwed. Thank god for the ACLU and the other groups working to make sure everyone, including these clueless ones pushing prayer in schools, will have the religious issues entirely in the hands of the parents instead of some school official.

I Will Do My Best To State This Short And Sweet. Religion... Aug 27th. at 3:01:47 pm EDT

Silverowl (Marble Falls, Texas US) Age: 22 - Email

I will do my best to state this short and sweet. Religion of the the people is something that should be free from the control of the state, and it is. Not once Have I not been able to pray anywhere. The state should simply not give preferance to any religion.

Where we to allow teaching of any religion in schools, Even if it were all religions known... were there a whole class related to religions of the world, The teaching would not and cannot be unbiased. This is impossible, for our faiths are such strong factors in our lives. Even an Athiests belief. Anyone who thinks that such a huge part of the community that choses to guide our children could possibly teach without something of themselves coming out to children is foolish. So What it comes down to is that the schools are not some enitity of the state solely... they are the communities that surrond it. Perhapes the problem is that the community does not gather together to interact with each other, and are astounded by the interaction of the community in these children.

This battle, if that is what it is, should be taken out of the schools. The public are waging arguements through their children. Enough already! Everyone should grow up and seek out some unity in the communities.

I Grew Up In Newfoundland, Canada, Where Much Of The Educational System... Aug 27th. at 5:59:50 pm EDT

Scotia (Toronto, Ontario CA) Age: 25

I grew up in Newfoundland, Canada, where much of the educational system was denominationally segregated. That changed less than a decade ago when the people of our province voted Yes! for a non-denominational school system. This vote amalgamated the schools, kicked out the religious aspect and provided ALL school-age children the opportunity to attend any school in their district.

No one can argue with this. To persist in keeping religion as a school educator is both educationally and morally detrimental. All children deserve the same education and all children deserve the freedom to explore / practice their own spirituality. It seems to me that denominated schools tend to forget why schools exist. It is not an institution built to promote and perpetuate religious propaganda - it is a system designed to inform, to educate and to encourage.

Religion is a very personal matter. It is something an individual explores internally, with family, with their religious guides and with friends. It is not an experience taught in textbooks or recited before Homeroom class.

I Live In Lancaster County, Pa. The Christians Here, All Of Them... Aug 27th. at 6:14:54 pm EDT

Gillian Romain (lancaster, Pennsylvania US) Age: 49 - Email

I live in Lancaster county, PA. The christians here, all of them, not just Mennonite and Amish, are extremely narrow-minded. One woman who thought I was catholic told me I would go to hell because of my religion! The majority of people here also vote Republican, not because of the person running, but because of the religious views of the evangelists who support that party. If I must look at crosses and WWJD shirts, keyholders etc., there isn't any reason my religion can't be visible. I recently lost a work assignment because someone reported me for putting a spell on her and causing bad things to happen. Of course I didn't and hadn't even had any trouble with the person. The comment I made was that witches aren't evil. That was enough for her, not to mention that I corrected her in front of someone. The problem is, that without legislation to force most humans to treat one another fairly, we will immediately revert to past behaviors. It is why there are laws about religious freedom, who can drink out of which water fountain, and who may marry whom. We must be as visible as we feel we can safely be, and hope that the religious zealots do not take over our government as they did 300 years ago when our ancestors came here looking for religious freedom. Perhaps some day we will find it - if we can teach our children to embrace diversity, rather than fear it. We must teach our children our religion ourselves and let them, and us, teach others by our behavior toward one another. Meanwhile, no religion belongs in school. Not until the christians are willing to teach about the bloody crusades where you believed their way or were killed, or the truth about the Salem Witch hunts. Maybe then we will have some balance.

Religion In School Is Only As Good As The People Who Allow... Aug 27th. at 8:19:54 pm EDT

Rae (Auburn, Washington US) Age: 15 - Email

Religion in school is only as good as the people who allow it. If one religion is propped up on a pedistal, other people with different religions feel left out or excluded.. a minority. I believe people have their Goddess given right to practice their religion whereever they choose, as long as it doesnt hurt anyone else. Preaching is a bit of a fine line for me... but if someone wants to learn, tell them about it. Hate should not be in schools... discrimination should not be in schools. Prayer, as long as it is private and non intrusive, doesnt seem like it could hurt anything.

Religion And School. I Am Going To College In The Uk, Read... Aug 28th. at 6:17:53 pm EDT

pelates (cambridge) Age: 17 - Email

religion and school. i am going to college in the uk, REad as high school and in juniour high as you would call it they taught us about all religions, and being tolerent. They even taught us about wicca, to an extent. religion in school is good, so long as it is all religions, and the teachers are not biased.

I Think That Religion Should Not Be Forced Upon Anyone At School... Aug 29th. at 9:39:55 pm EDT

SilverPanther (Rockville, Maryland US) Age: 14 - Email

I think that religion should not be forced upon anyone at school, but I also think it would be nice to have opportunities for everyone to practice their own religion. There should be a moment of silence everyday (before tests especially), so people could pray, meditate, etc. When studying world religions, they should also include Wicca, that way the number of people thinking it is evil shall go down. Pentacles should never be banned (or otherwise let the crosses be banned as well), and saying the Pledge of Allegiance should be optional. At my middle school we were forced to say it, and even though I was not Wiccan back then, I still did not feel it was right. As for the Ten Commandments, I have nothing against them being posted as long as they omit the obviously Christian ones (such as dont worship other gods, because that is just rude, and forces christianity on people. everything else is just moral.) and they ought to post the Threefold Law and the Wiccan Rede as well, not only for balance, but also to eliminate prejudice. I also think that, since there are Christian and Jewish schools, there should be Wiccan schools too.....because sometimes I just wish I could go to a school where my religion is practiced and where I am accepted for who I am.

Sorry, I'm A Bit Late On This One But.... As A Child... Aug 30th. at 7:44:20 pm EDT

Michele Frykas (Winnipeg, Manitoba CA) Age: 27

Sorry, I'm a bit late on this one but....

As a child in school, I remember saying the Lord's Prayer right after 'O Canada' and before 'God Save the Queen'. At the time, I was a practicing Catholic, and very naive, so it didn't even occur to me that there was a problem. I even remember our grade 3 school teacher reading the Bible to us.

As I grew up in the public school system, things changed. The prayer issue was left up to the school principal. The only maditory thing was the playing of the national anthem and of God Save the Queen. (Both songs mention the word God, as far as I could tell, that was never really an issue).

The best solution I came accross was in High School. The pricipal there recognized that there were Jews, Muslims, etc in the school and instead had a "moment of silence". Thus, if you felt like praying you could, in whatever words you wish, or for the truly non-spiritual....reflect upon last nights hockey game.

I have no problems bringing religion or prayer into the public schools as long as ALL religions are allowed, honoured and educated. Public education should reflect the needs and composition of the students. If the schools choose to include religion, it should present it in an educational manner, not presented as a biased, inclusive mind-set. We are developing minds, not dictating beliefs!!!

I Have Attended Both Private (roman Catholic) And Public Schools. In The... Aug 30th. at 10:04:09 pm EDT

MoonDancer (North Hollywood, California US) Age: 32

I have attended both private (Roman Catholic) and public schools. In the private high school I attended, we had daily prayers over the loudspeaker and mandatory attendance at the occasional school masses. I never thought it was correct or fair to force the non-Catholic students to attend these events. (About 10 students per high school grade level were non-Catholic). To the school's credit, we were also required to take a semester-long class in comparitive religions, and during that semester were required to attend a service of a faith that was not our own.

I have mixed feelings about schools teaching about religions at all. In some instances, a "comparitive religions class" may be some students' only exposure to other faiths (other than through their own faith system, if they subscribe to one). So such a class COULD be enlightening and dispell misinformation. However, I would find it hard to teach about other faiths (or even my own) in an impartial manner. I figure that if such a class ever was available in a public school, attendance would end up being optional (like how parents can hold their children out of the sex education classes).

As far as the mention of God in the Pledge of Allegiance, people should know that the "under God" phrase was added basically because of the "Red Scare" -- our Pledge apparently is quite similar to the Russians' pledge, and the phrase was added (in my opinion) to make sure we were "godly" folk and not "godless Russians". (No offense intended to any Russians, I am trying to capture the ideas prevalent in the 50's). (Segue: we also used to salute the flag, but that too was dropped because it was reminiscent of the Third Reich salute.)

There Is An Old Saying, "your Right To Swing Your Fist Ends... Aug 31st. at 2:30:15 am EDT

Lisa / ChaosMoth (Mountain View, California US) Age: 16 - Email

There is an old saying, "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins." Yes, if I were a high school student (I currently attend college) I should be allowed to pray. Heck, come to think of it, I should be allowed to cast spells in class, too -- since when inspiration hits, I've been known to improvise visualizations, silently and with minimal movement, using jewelry and local items for props. But all of this can be done silently and without bothering others. I don't buy the 'disruptive clothing' idea. Who's making -you- look at -my- dress? People should be allowed to write, think, dress, learn, and manipulate energies in any way they choose AS LONG AS they do not violate the rights of others to do the very same. So I could muck around with crystals to help clear my head in the middle of Geometry class, presuming that it wouldn't interfere with my ability to listen (I have a problem with our public education system, and spent most of my abortively force-fed years reading books under the desk -- which is why I'm in college now, majoring in psychology, instead of languishing away in yet another "memorize this and write it down tomorrow" session. So take my words with a grain of salt when it comes to such iffy features of high school such as 'learning'. I'm assuming here that the high schools in question are better at teaching than the one I suffered.) But I couldn't exert my will toward making the teacher fall in love with me. Or burst out praying. People should not be allowed to do these things in front of the class either.

Outrageous magickal questions aside, this is a noise pollution issue, and a control issue. Come lunch hour, I could hug a tree and commune with the Goddess. But whilst trapped in that stuffy little classroom, my prayers should be silent. As should those of any Christian students. And assemblies and public events only give voice to one. It may be late at night, and my mind is a little overstretched today (as must be apparent to you by now) but I'm suddenly struck with an amusing visual. Imagine the Great Rite being performed on a podium. Prayer is sacred, yes, but keep it to yourself and your dearest!

My Thought Is That Religion Should Be Kept Out Of Public Schools... Sep 1st. at 12:33:40 am EDT

Trisha D (Detroit, Michigan US) Age: 34

My thought is that religion should be kept out of public schools. Certain things are passible because they are flexable. Meaning ; Say the Pledge of alliegence. If you cringe at the WORD God., replace it . Christmas or other holidays that are typically celebrated in school are typically generic. Explain to your child your point of view (parents have to take responsibility regardless of faith)If you find it too offensive remove the child for the day.

Private schools are another matter. You CHOSE whether or not to put your child in that atmoshere.
Our children are there to be educated about "wordly" subjects. At young ages , difference become too big and overshadow any educational progress that they should be making.

The state should have total "hands off" policy where religion is concerned. In this of all countries that should be understood. Did'nt many of our ancestors come here in the beginning because they thought that they would be able to practice freely the faith of their choice?
Crystal Heart

 1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10    11  

Pagan Essays

Pagan Web
8,000 Links

Pagan Groups
Local Covens etc.

80,000 Profiles

Home - TWV Logos - Email US - Privacy
News and Information

Chapters: Pagan/Heathen Basics - Pagan BOOKS - Traditions, Paths & Religions - Popular Pagan Holidays - TV & Movies - Cats of the Craft - Festival Reviews - Festival Tips - White Pages (Resources) - Issues/Concerns - West Memphis 3 - Witch Hunts - Pagan Protection Tips - Healing Planet Earth

Your Voices: Adult Essays - Young Pagan Essays - Pagan Perspectives (On Hold) - WitchWars: Fire in the Craft - Gay Pagan - Pagan Parenting - Military - Pagan Passages

Pagan Music: Pagan Musicians - Bardic Circle at WitchVox - Free Music from TWV

Vox Central: About TWV - Wren: Words, Wrants and Wramblings - Guest Rants - Past Surveys - A Quest for Unity

Weekly Updates: Click HERE for an index of our weekly updates for the past 6 years

W.O.T.W. - World-Wide Networking

Your Town: A Link to YOUR Area Page (The largest listing of Witches, Pagans, Heathens and Wiccans on the Planet)

VoxLinks: The Pagan Web: 8,000 Listings

Your Witchvox Account: Log in Now - Create New Account - Request New Password - Log in Problems

Personal Listings: Pagan Clergy in Your Town - Adult Pagans - Young Pagans - Military Pagans

Events: Circles, Gatherings, Workshops & Festivals

Covens/Groups/Orgs: Local Groups Main Page

Other LOCAL Resources: Local Shops - Regional Sites - Local Notices - Global/National Notices - Local Skills & Services - Local Egroups - Political Freedom Fighters

Pagan Shopping: Online Shops Index - Original Crafters Sites - Auction Sites - Pagan Wholesalers - Pagan Local Shops

Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2019 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.

Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh.

Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections
(including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wren’s Nest, etc.)
are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witches’ Voice, Inc.
TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.

The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.

Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.