The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
||This Page Viewed: 10,353,926
Vox Q Stats|
Times Viewed: 32,767
Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1
Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003
Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?
Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?
Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?
Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?
What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?
| Reponses: There are 258 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| Go Troops!! ||Mar 24th. at 2:55:17 pm UTC|
|MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) ||Age: 39 - Email |
I've flip-flopped more than once on this issue. I'd hate the be the one calling the shots. Goddess help him.
If I choose to believe that we bailed on the Iraqi people before then I wonder why it's taken us so long to go back and take saddam & co. out. Shame on us for doing that to people. I'm hearing stories that are collaborating the fact that we bailed as they rose up. I'm seeing pictures of Iraqi people that are happy to see us yet wondering if we will go the distance this time. We HAVE to. We'd better. What's right is right. If we helped saddam become who he is it's our responsibility to take him down and render him powerless. I've got no problem with that. It's practical and fair.
A person or persons that get off on torturing people for whatever reason doesn't rank really high in my estimation and I have no problem with removing their heads and piking them for all to see.
This is what happens to sick cowards. You don't treat people like that. Good thing for pedophiles and the like that I ain't Queen! Cheaper than death row! Let the Gods sort them out! oop..wrong rant!
If I can believe what I am being told, we are making every effort to make sure targets are checked, that bomb size is matched w/target size and that even things like trajectory are being calculated for the least amount of civilian casualties. I'd like to believe this as we are not barbarians and technology kicks ass! I've read that even the Iraqi people understand that innocent people will die and THEY feel it is worth it to be rid of saddam & co for good. How can I protest what the people of Iraq want?
I think everyone has the right to peacefully protest. When it ties up traffic or gets violent, it just takes away from the point of the protest, but that's mho. Some like to be over-the-top. I do not.
For me, it goes back to the Iraqi people. If they want to be free no matter what it takes, who am I to say no? Our Country can liberate them (w/the gracious help of our friends) . Go Team!
What does scare me are the ways some are trying to make this a religious thing. Like the 'pray for the president' article on Wren's Nest. The prayer was definately Christian, which I wasn't offended by until I got to the part about converting the Iraqi people to Christianity. That spun my head around. Not cool at all. Their freedom from saddam should not include conversion to Christianity. ick. That bugs me. It shouldn't even be in the prayer, but there is it.
So....who knows. There are so many variables it hurts my head to think about it too much. I do know that I pray for the troops and innocents. I pray it is over as soon as possible and as bloodless as possible and that we follow thru til it's done completely this time. I pray for hope & I pray for peace. I also thank the Goddess I am not in charge!
Praying for Wisdom for the powers that be.
| Still Opposed ||Mar 24th. at 3:20:44 pm UTC|
|Bran (Minnesota) ||Age: 24 - Email |
I have not changed my mind. This war is still heinous and unjust. I support our troops: I want them home, safe, *alive.* We don't need more dead, Iraqi or American.
Pro-peace protests should continue as long as the war is in progress. No, we can't prevent it, and we probably can't even shorten it. But President Bush needs to understand how many of the American voters oppose his actions; he needs to hear that what he's doing is *not okay.* If we stop standing up to totalitarian actions, the President will believe the people have given him carte blanche to *be* totalitarian. The gap *does* continue to grow between the sides of this issue, as pro-war demonstrators accuse pro-peace demonstrators of being 'un-American' or 'pro-terrorism, ' and pro-peace rallies become more aggressive and sometimes violent. We're straying from a place where disagreements in opinions simply mean disagreements in opinions; we're forgetting that every American has the right to free speech and expression, the right to their own beliefs.
Suspension of any civil liberties is *never* appropriate - at any time, for any reason. It didn't work during the McCarthy era, and it won't work now. It won't make us safer, just less free. And this action won't make us or the world safer. It will make us more hated by the international community; it will make the world more US-run. And as difficult as some may find this to believe, other nations of the world are capable of running themselves. We are not the world's policeman, not the world's babysitter; we should not be ordering other countries to 'be like us.'
I am terrified that the war will end but the infringement of civil liberties will not. I am terrified that our scores of new enemies will not forget what we have done here. I am terrified that, if one pre-emptive war proves successful, our nation will begin rushing headlong into more, becoming little more than a bully on the international playground.
| The Goddess Knows ||Mar 24th. at 4:28:13 pm UTC|
|Tedd Savage/ENOON (Everetts, North Carolina, USA) ||Age: 51 - Email |
If the land of Inana, Ishtar, has a voice deep inside she would screem for release from her capture. If you look closely at the
way the places of worship (so called) are shaped their bias for and their bias against are revealed. The reason why we are
there fighting and the reason why I accept the goddess are the same. May the Goddess be free!
| Still Against The War! ||Mar 24th. at 5:59:03 pm UTC|
|Celticmoon (Oklahoma) ||Age: 54 - Email |
I am still very much against the war. However, I do support our troops, and hope they can come home soon. Too many lives have been lost!
The protests should continue. We need to let the leaders of every country know that we know this is an unjust war. I do believe the divide is greater than before.
Civil liberties should NEVER be suspended!! I'm not afraid of the terrorists, but I am very afraid of the loss of civil liberties. I feel that the world will never be safe again!
What really frightens me about this war? I'm afraid Bush has the "domino effect" all wrong. We won't see democracy popping all over the middle east. Instead, we will see more wars popping up. Our country has started something that, IMHO, will never end. I hate to be so pessimistic, but that is how I feel.
| I'd Like To Change My Mind... ||Mar 24th. at 6:00:54 pm UTC|
|Tawny (Southern Cal.) ||Age: 21 - Email |
BUT To change my mind I would have to subscribe to the 'reality' that....
1. Bush and friends actually ARE doing this for the iraqui people
2. This isn't about oil, military or reconstruction contacts.
3. bush was truly a 'uniter'
4. our own top gov. folks had THEIR children over there
5. Sadam was responsible for 911
6. Sadam will attack us anyday now.
7. The inspections weren't moving forward.
Fact is... I can't believe any of these PR spins from our current admin.
I support our troops and will them a safe return...
AND our president is thrilled... HE said three times yesterday. 'The oil fields are safe' - (for the iraqui people? Yeah right!!!!)
| "Silence Implies Consent" ||Mar 24th. at 6:47:01 pm UTC|
|Gloria Fiorini (Cave Junction, OR) ||Age: 46 - Email |
Don't let my Women in Black group know this, but I have agonized over whether or not to give up our vigils. Sometimes it seems pointless. We were, after all, profoundly ignored by the PTB in Washington. People in Iraq, both our guys and their civilians, are dying even as I write this. Why not give up? I've thought. I tried, didn't I? My hands are clean, aren't they?
But I can't, I just can't give up. "Silence implies consent." If I remain silent, I imply that I agree with the dual wars against the Iraqi people and against our civil rights. And I do not consent---I WILL NOT CONSENT! I still stand against this war, regardless of whatever excuse they care to use; whether they still claim to be liberating the Iraqis or whether they finally come clean and admit that it's really all about the oil. I stand against our troops dying because they trusted a government that thinks of them the way you and I think of a toolchest full of hammers and screwdrivers. I stand against "friendly fire" and "collateral damage, " and destroying thousands of Iraqi lives under the pretext of "liberating" them. I stand against American citizens being treated like traitors and criminals for the books they read and the people they know. I can't quit. I can't turn off half my brain and pretend everything's going to be fine just because Bush says so.
So you'll find me out there, standing vigil with the rest of the Women in Black, until this insanity ends.
| Hmm... ||Mar 24th. at 6:48:21 pm UTC|
|Casey (NC) ||Age: 15 - Email |
I'm sort of in between on this. I think we could have handled this in better ways, but i do think that Saddam should be taken out of control. He kills his own people, and whether or not our motives are to help the Iraqi people, we will be taking him out.
Saddam kills his own people, so, whether or not Bush's main intention is to liberate the Iraqi people (probably not) , they will be liberated from their opressive dictator.
*Goddess Bless the Troops and the Iraqi People*
| War ||Mar 24th. at 7:08:56 pm UTC|
|TheHollow (Vancouver, Canada) ||Age: 22 - Email |
I hold a very strong left-wing anti-war stance which has not changed since the war broke out. I hold a strong left-wing stance in most of my political life so my ideas were unlikely to change in the event of war.
I do not think the anti-war protests should cease because I feel that this would silence a whole segment of the population that has a right to speak (on a side note however, I am in Canada and our Prime Minister is not supporting the war efforts of the US, althought he is not critizing the US on its efforts as we do have some troops w/ the american troops in the middle east who were already there and will not be pulled out due to treaties we hold with the US) . I doubt that in Canada there is a greater divide between those holding different ideologies. I believe it is much the same as it has always been. I can not speak for the situation in the US however.
I really do not believe that the suspension of civil liberties is a good idea. I do not think it makes anyone safer or more secure. I believe it is just a silencing mechanism with the justification of war time measures.
What concerns me the most about the war in Iraq is that-yes it is a war for oil- but it is also a holy war of sorts and no one seems to be paying attention to this.
*disclaimer: these are my own views and I am NOT attempting to discredit or abuse anyone elses views*
| Madman Saddam ||Mar 24th. at 8:05:27 pm UTC|
|malakai (canada) ||Age: 30 - Email |
I am nor for the war and nor against the war but I have changed the way I feel about the people that are protesting about it.
I feel they should give it a rest, as all the police resources are being used at these demomstrations and that means the saftey off the people is more at risk to terorists.
I also believe that a large majority of these protesters don't really care either way, they just want to be apart of something and do their bit so to say, so when the time comes they can say"I was thier and I did my bit against the war".
On another point we all should be focusing on our soldiers that have been taken captive as we all know that they will be tortured and maybe killed.
To finish off I really believe that Saddam hussien has already won this war, not by fighting and defeating on the ground but by spliting the U.N and turning the world against each other.
He must be loving what he has done when he see's all the protests going on around the world.
| Do You Remember That Episode Of Star Trek Where... ||Mar 24th. at 9:20:14 pm UTC|
|Robert Elm (Reseda) ||Age: 28 - Email |
Hi. Before this war got started I hated Bush and Hussein, and after this war got started I still hate Bush and Hussein. Any individual that this hot to send his own countrymen to their deaths for their own gratification and selfish gains as these two wretched beasts deserve to be chained down and tortured by the families of the soldiers who died in their conflict. Bush's fortunes come from oil holdings, does anyone here think that an opportunist like him hasn't thought about how high the price of oil would raise by attacking Iraq?!?! Do I even need to bring up what kind of scum Hussein is? My Website design teacher summed it up best when he said that Hussein and Bush should fight it out to the death if they're so hot to blow someone up. Visions of Star Trek float through my mind with Kirk dukeing it out with Spock with some kind of Vulcan axes to the cheesiest music imaginable. There's a pay per veiw event I'd watch, and no one of any real value has to die unlike the soldiers that have died so far to the benefit of the news networks. There is only one thing about this war that doesn't disgust me, the possibility of the Iraqis' freedom from Hussein. It makes me sick to think that Governor Bush has used this as his excuse to pad his pockets with more cash. }:>p>
| Let's Just Finish It! ||Mar 24th. at 9:28:34 pm UTC|
|Am-e (Portland, IN) ||Age: 25 - Email |
My position on this war hasn't changed. I won't go into the details or what side I'm on, it isn't relevant now. What IS relevant is what the outcome will be. I support our troops 110% and wish them the best. And I hope that we at least see this thing through to the very end and not only remove Saddam from power, but also disarm Iraq. I also hope that we do not walk away and forget that Iraq will need a lot of reconstruction. The US has a bad record for walking out on countries after we've trashed them.
I've never felt unsafe in the country. Not even on 9/11. This country will always be the safest place on the planet to be, unless we allow our government to continue to turn it more and more into a military state, with armed guards everywhere. I'm not afraid, why should someone else's paranoia hinder my freedoms. No one lives forever.
| Regime Change Has Always Been The Priority Anyways. ||Mar 24th. at 9:47:24 pm UTC|
|Maleciah (Oregon) ||Age: 25 - Email |
I DO NOT support bush. I DO support the war. Too many people are to blame for what lies before us now. We were the ones to stand up, admit that we were a PART (not all) of the problem due to actions and descisions by governments past. BUT, we at least are willing to fix it, to make it up to the iraqi people for telling them to revolt against Saddam, and as they did we were gonna fix it then till the international community stepped in and insisted we let Saddam keep power. Consequently, all those who revolted during the gulf war have been killed or tortured till they died. My friend and his family who came from Iraq verified this and showed me stories proving it. IF the Arab nations were really as "condemning" of him as they are so fond of saying, they would have followed their policy of "we handle our own" and done away with saddam a LONG TIME AGO. but they chose not to, they decided to sit back and be ok with him killing his own people cause they weren't from other countries and then show dead children to push their agenda even though Saddam has killed many kids. I am not. I don't care who they are. Regime change was (if not, should have been) the US agenda from the beginning. The US was hoping for a peaceful resolution to this. but Saddam (even growing up) never knew what peace was (look at his bio) . and to see the same people at anti war protests go to concentration camps and say "oh what a tragedy" (snap a picture) . Those would not be "attractions" now if it wasn't for the US coming in and helping in getting rid of someone who liked to kill people in his own people. but it was only after they did it to their neighbors that we finally stepped in.. just like this time with Kuwait.
I think this could have been taken care of a long time ago through diplomatic means and UN sanctions could have worked if it was right after Saddam took power.. but sadly, with countries still buying and selling to Saddam.. Sanctions and the UN are just a day late and a dollar short. Peace is no longer a way to solve this problem. how many times do you have to see a little kid get beat by their parents before you call C.S.D? You may laugh and say those are not even in the same ball park. BUT, You don't know how afraid of this man the Iraqi people are. They are afraid of Saddam like a child would be afraid of their parents after seeing their parent kill their brother. That is very much in the same ball park. and if you have any doubts about that.. go to the arab news sites and see the execution style bullet holes in our troops heads next to those who are still alive and trembling with fear. right next to the story from the Iraqi goverment that they will abide by the geneva convention. Yeah this guy should stay in power. he is a just and fair leader *dripping with sarcasm*
As far as the anti war protests, I am glad that people are expressing their opinion! But If I was at a protest my goal for a peace rally would be to be peaceful, and I see fights happening all over when it comes to these protests. Police come to make sure that things don't get out of hand and it costs alot of money to have them out. Money that could be spent on their pay for finding sleeper cells and other dangers to society (admittedly not all police dept. are open-minded as much as they are here in Oregon) . But instead they are out there trying to play security guards. Protest, prove your point and then go home.. if you feel so motivated to protest again, set up for the next day. But don't Flood the streets and walk in front of speeding cars on 3 interstate highways (like they did here) and make the police jobs harder for them and you. Here in Portland, the protests said on the flyer to plan on being arrested and when you are give them your name and call a number where there is lawyers waiting for your call. what is that?! a telethon?! I think that it is sad that there are people out there just trying to convey a point that they don't support war, meanwhile others are looking to cause a rukus cause it would be cool (being pagans we can identify with this considering how many of our gatherings are disturbed by these or like-minded people impairing you from getting your point across. When the police say stay on the sidewalk, what is the problem with being on the sidewalk.. can you not protest from there as easily as the street? it is irresponsible to cause that much problem to proove your point news coverage and shear numbers will provide that. If you are looking for an arguement and with the police, you will get one.
As far as my rights.. all I have to say is the patriot act and the second one need to go.. just like the electoral college needs to go. if we are a symbol of a democratic society there should be nothing in the government that allows them to over-rule a popular vote!
I do not think that this war nor the opinions of such divides us. Debating and talking about these issues that face us today not only allow us to be able to better understand each other but also helps show a non-biased side of things. I think this is a strength. I am happy that people are talking and taking advantage of the net to get their ideas and thoughts out there. the internet is a physical way of prooving we are all a part of the same web of life. and as all pagans know, death is a part of life.
BB to all. P.L.U.R. (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect)
(Please note that the link is not for the faint of heart but to prove a point.. on the page (top left) is a picture of a baby crying and then goes to red letters those letters say Victims of US and british bombs) What is this designed to accomplish other than to inflame people? nothing it is all part of the iraqi propoganda war led by saddam who pays aljazeera alot of money. and people buy into it as much as americans buy into the propoganda war the US does.
Link to More info related to this post -- HERE
Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2014 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.
Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.
Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wrenâ€™s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witchesâ€™ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.
Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.
Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.