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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]



















 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 8,534,087  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 129

Lurker/Post Ratio: 254 to 1

Question of the Week: 12 - 10/23/2000

Pagan Choice for the y2k US Election

This week's Pagan Perspective question is a redux of one that we asked about at the beginning of August... And we apologize in advance to our non-United States readers that we have again brought up an issue that is rather exclusive to just one country, but feel free to comment on the shenanigans of the American political system as you see it.) Which political platform or candidate are you leaning towards? Have you made up your mind or changed your mind? Will you vote and who-if you don't mind telling the world-are you planning to vote for? Why have you made this particular choice?

 Reponses:   There are 129 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I'm Voting For Gore. My Personal Preference Is For Nader, But Imo... Oct 23rd. at 11:15:23 am EDT

Carol (Columbus, Ohio US) Age: 42


I'm voting for Gore. My personal preference is for Nader, but IMO, votes for Nader will help George Dubya. My main concern is protecting our rights as Pagans, and this affects my decision in two ways. The most important is the future Supreme Court appointees by our next president. Dubya's role models for his choices are Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas -- extreme right judges. The second is the congressional attempts to outlaw minority religions in the military by Rep. Barr, and now, James Traficant. For the second time, George Dubya has said Wicca is not a real religion and should be outlawed. Do we want a president who would criminalize us? Or do we want someone who will not speak about our denomination specifically, but who supports the rights of all Americans of all faiths? This is a no brainer for me!

We're here, we're polytheistic, we're Americans and we VOTE!

B*B,

Carol


Well, I Intend To Vote For Gore. While I Don't Exactly Care... Oct 23rd. at 11:59:19 am EDT

Lori Dake (Chicago, Illinois US) Age: 26 - Email


Well, I intend to vote for Gore. While I don't exactly care for his wife Tipper and the whole PMRC thing she pulled back in the 80s (which is responsible for the warning labels on CDs nowadays), he seems like our best chance at reserving our freedoms. Nader and Buchanan are just not feasible, since there's so many people who vote by party only, Democrat or Republican (which, IMHO is just not right - people need to spend a few extra minutes and vote for individuals, not parties).

People who vote for either of these folks, while I believe Nader is the best man for the job, really won't make a dent in the percentages. Remember the mere 1% of votes for Perot in '92?

Bush himself IMHO is an idiot, but he surrounds himself with clever people. He's got the Fundies backing him up, including my favorite "villan", Pat Robertson.

I highly urge everyone who can to vote this year - and PLEASE remember: whoever goes into office this time around gets to pick three, maybe four Supreme Court Justices. If you can't vote yourself, encourage others who can!!


As A Born And Raised Southern Democrat And A Major Liberal By... Oct 23rd. at 12:02:51 pm EDT

Candle Ogham (Tamai, Italy) Age: 23 - Email


As a born and raised Southern Democrat and a major liberal by hippie parents, I have been around political activism since I was a wee tot. My father was involved in the political groups in our state and I have been entrenched in it. As I grew older, I began reaching out on my own, and looking outside of the major parties. I voted for Clinton last time around and will stick to my democratic roots in this election. I have watched the debates, been to the websites and read Stars and Stripes everyday, and I feel confident in my decision. Al Gore is definatly my man. I don't agree with some of his ideas, but I agree with them more than Georgie-boy's. Wouldn't it be nice to have a regular schmo like us in the big chair than a career politician? As a military spouce, a Pagan, a mother, and a patriotic woman, I take my decision very seriously.


What Follows Is An Email Discussion I Had Recently With A *former... Oct 23rd. at 12:38:49 pm EDT

Sue McCullough (Oakland, California US) Age: 41 - Email


What follows is an email discussion I had recently with a *former* Bush supporter after I sent him the URL for the Web, White and Blue question of the day:

(Original message from me - Sue)
Subject: Politics - now they've REALLY done it!

http://www.webwhiteblue.org/debate/2000-10-15/bush/question/

For the first time in 20 years, I'm NOT voting for a third party candidate for president. The "Shrub" has convinced me. How dare he presume to judge someone else's religion, and state that he "doesn't think it is a religion".

Yes, I'm outraged. If I could get a connection to that religious bigot's campaign web site, I would tell them off, but I keep getting timed out. GRRRRR!!!! He's just lucky witches don't really curse people.

Note: Voting for Tipper's husband (because of her music censorship issue) turns my stomach.
--------------------------

(Bush supporter)
Try to think with his brain - he probably has had no connection
to Wiccan organizations, ever.

(Sue)
Nope! No excuse! Remember congressman Bob Barr going after the Fort Ord Wiccans? That was in Texas, under governor Bush.
Other recent Wiccan news from Texas:
Federal Supreme Court rules Santa Fe High School cannot broadcast student-led Christian prayers over the school P.A. system before football games. Following the ruling Christians held "We Still Pray" rallies, and about 300 Wiccans held a "We Still Work Magick" rally in response.
Dallas city counsel invited a Wiccan to give their opening prayer, then un-invited him because of Christian complaints, then re-invited him when local Wiccans cried discrimination. (The prayer was very well received, by the way, after the head of the city counsel had a heckler removed so the prayer could be heard.)
(Sue)
Texas has a huge, highly visible and highly active Pagan population. I went to the Witches Voice web site and did a search for "Texas" - got 96 items back. Bush has had multiple opportunities as governor to become educated, and it would have been the appropriate thing for him to do. But he hasn't bothered.

(Bush supporter)
Some staffer probably wrote his response, targeting it so that
most folk 45 yo and up would agree with it.

(Sue)
It's almost exactly word-for-word identical to a G.W. Bush quote from one of the articles I found about the Fort Ord Wiccans. Two years, and he hasn't learned anything from or about the people of his own state.
(Sue)
I agree that the statement is targeted. It's aimed at the religious right that wants to turn this country back into a "Christian Nation", and would be quite happy "to burn the witches at the stake" - another quote I found on the Witches Voice, from a reader's letter to the editor regarding the Fort Ord Wiccan controversy.
(Sue)
The part about the military "promoting" a religion was also targeted at the R.R. - you know as well as I do that the military doesn't promote *any* religions.

(Bush supporter)
Doesn't make it right, or even well thought out.

(Sue)
I called him a religious bigot because he IS. The religions he considers valid (from the question of the day response) are all descended from the traditions of Abraham. He left out Native American spirituality, Buddhism, Hinduism, É
(Sue)
How do you think people would react if Lieberman were to say that he didn't think Christianity or Islam were religions? After all, Joe's religion has been around for over 5700 years, Christianity is barely 2000 years old, and the Muslim "philosophy" is less than 800 years old.

(Bush supporter)
Can't believe you are voting for Tipper, though! (grin)
(Sue)
I know, I know. (grin)
(Sue)
If she becomes first lady, I may have to start melting down vinyl albums and sending them to her at the White House. My husband has about 2500 albums, so I could send one a day for four years, but if Gore got re-elected, I'd run out about six weeks short of 3 years into their second term.
(Sue)
What do you think? That ought to make the secret service pay attention to me, and get me labeled as a nutcase. (grin)

(Sue)
It's tough to give up my third-party stance. But it would be even harder to be forced back into the broom closet by a federal government that doesn't respect my first amendment rights.


I Really Wish That I Could Support The Stated Libertarian Platform. However... Oct 23rd. at 12:47:32 pm EDT

Conchobar O'Cuthbert (Naperville, Illinois US) Age: 27 - Email


I really wish that I could support the stated Libertarian platform. However, after reading their party propaganda, there is no realistic way that it can be met, save throwing the USA into total shock and anarchy... (But would that necessarily be a bad thing? )

Anyway, eventhough I support the ideals of the Libertarian Party, I am not comfortable that they will be able to realistically put their ideals into action, nor that they have a real chance at making a showing in the presidential election.

Therefore, I have to vote my consciense: Gore volunteered to join the military during the Vietnam conflict. He has been through personal trials with his wife's illness (depression is NOBODY'S friend) and he seems to have come out of it stronger because of it. He answers questions directly (!) when asked. Finally, he is, to all appearances, a man of integrity and hounour. Those are qualities that I can respect.


I Am A Registered Green, But I Will Be Voting For Mr... Oct 23rd. at 12:47:39 pm EDT

Nelli (Carmel Valley, California US) Age: 23 - Email


I am a registered green, but I will be voting for Mr. Gore. Al Gore has shown that he really does feel strongly about certain things - the environment and a womans right to choose being the two items most important to me. Sure, he rides the fence. Sure, he's one of those WWJD people. Still, he believes in the constitution, he believes in choice and the freedom of religion, and he feels strongly about protecting the environment. At least he believes in global warming, for gods' sakes, unlike his esteemed opponent. He is intelligent, well-spoken, and nearly as genuine as possible (for a politician). Why him instead of nader? Well, firstly because I really don't want to live in a world where GWB comes anywhere near the white house; secondly, I am *extremely* disappointed in Nader. He seems to have some really far fetched beliefs - like the one where he thinks that if Bush wins, the Democratic party will fall and the Green party will rise to take its place; and the other one where he doesn't think it matters which candidate (between bush and gore) appoints supreme court justices. Um, hello? Basically, it looks to me like Nader is willing to sell out the environment, women's right to choose, and all kinds of social justice issues so that he can make a point - "see, I may not be president, but I have enough power to bring down the one guy who might be at all interested in leaving our national parks intact". No, that's not an actual nader quote, but he's become more of a politician than either of the other two, and I think it's disgusting.
I also think that these continued attempts by greens to win the presidency, while they have brought some important issues to light (third parties in debates, stuff like that), are misguided. I think it would be far more effective to concentrate on state elections - everything from schoolboard members to senators. Resources can be concentrated that way, and in some states anyway, it's actually within the realm of possibility that a greem might win a senatorial or congressional seat. In fact, I think that might already have happened once or twice.
I am terrified by the prospect of having Bush as president. His campaign promises have included vows to thwart at every opportunity any pro-choice legislation, and to completely pillage our remaining public wild areas. Kiss Alaska goodbye, folks, if he wins, because it's just one giant oil field waiting to happen, as far as he's concerned. Oh yeah, and there's that little thing where he made a public statement to the effect that he doesn't believe that wicca is a religion. And foriegn policy? What happens the first time he asks the president of France where exactly is that country, again? In foreign policy, we need someone strong, articulate, thoughtful and intelligent - george dubya is none of those. But I think he's going to win; I think he would win even without Nader's meddling. So what to do? Hunker down and hope for the best, I suppose. And pray for a liberal congress.


I Plan To Vote For Al Gore - Largely Because, Unfortunately, I Consider... Oct 23rd. at 12:56:00 pm EDT

Margaret (Minneapolis, Minnesota US) Age: 30


I plan to vote for Al Gore - largely because, unfortunately, I consider him the lesser of two evils. And, in an election as close as this one is likely to be, I don't feel I have the luxury of voting for a third party candidate. I don't want to see Bush in the White House by default. Furthermore, I have a few points of disagreement with Nader. I don't like all of Gore's positions, but at least he hasn't spoken out against allowing Pagans our religious freedom. And I do respect his intelligence. I guess you could say I consider him the best of a bad lot.


I've Spent A Lovely Morning Slogging Through Political Pamphlets, Web Sites, And... Oct 23rd. at 1:46:31 pm EDT

Maythen Apple (Redding, California US) Age: 23


I've spent a lovely morning slogging through political pamphlets, web sites, and any other sources I could lay my hands on. It seems like it always comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils. I can't say I'm particularly pleased with any of the candidates. I'm not really voting For Gore, I'm voting Against Bush. Both have some issues that I'm having trouble with. But after all the anti-pagan stuff Bush has been spouting I simply can't, in good concience, consider him. This president is going to be electing Supreme Court judges. Long after he is gone those judges will continue to influence our government. So it seems i'm in the same boat as most of you. Instead I'm putting a lot more thought and research into the other decisions I'll be facing in the booth. If you don't vote, imho, you don't have the right to complain. There's a pretty good chance I'll be doing a lot of complaining about politics soon. But I still intend to make sure my voice, however small, is heard.


I Will Not Be Voting For Bush. I Didn't Vote For Him... Oct 23rd. at 2:15:59 pm EDT

Tasha (Mansfield, Texas US) Age: 20 - Email


I will not be voting for Bush. I didn't vote for him when he ran for govenor of my state, and I certainly will not vote for him to become president. Maybe my vote will be wasted, because of the unnecessary electoral college, and we all know that Bush will take Texas. Not only has be said very derogatory things about pagans and Wiccans, he wants to use my tax money to support faith-based afterschool programs. I don't want my money going to a Catholic, Jewish or any other religion afterschool program. If I wanted to give my money to a faithbased afterschool program, it would be one that I supported. I should have a choice in the matter. Also, I am still really irked with Bush about the ads he ran in his govenor race that were extremely derogatory to single parents, saying that my son and I weren't a family unless I was married. He doesn't deserve my vote. I'll probably vote for Gore. He's smart, and seems to be on top of the political issues that I feel are important. To the best of my knowledge, he has never made rude comments about single parents, my religion, and isn't going to use my tax dollars for faith-based afterschool programs. Anyway, even if Gore did want to use my tax dollars for that, he's not the one that makes the tax laws. Which is something I think we all need to take into consideration when voting. The President doesn't make the laws, Congress does. The canidates are going to make promises, and not one of them are they going to be able to keep, because of this.


First Off I Have To Say Forget The Pagan Religious Angle Of... Oct 23rd. at 2:56:18 pm EDT

Tanais (Spokane, Washington US) Age: 19


First off I have to say forget the pagan religious angle of this election. It's for all purposes a non-issue. Bush, if elected, will have no real power to say which religion deserves to be called one. As far as I'm concerned nobody has that right.

The religious intolerance of Bush is only the tip of the iceburg. Look at his soft-money contributions, his special interest contributions, not to mention his apprehensible suggestion to turn the last great frontier into an oil field just so Americans can have cheaper power for the next couple months. I'd like to say why not address the consumption problem in America rather then exploiting some of the most beautiful land on this planet. I honestly think he has driven Texas into the ground. Almost dead last in terms of pollution and education and that's not the qualifications that I want for someone that represents me. Gore brought up the statistics and Bush came up with probably the most confusing and incoherent answer I've ever heard a politician uttur. He never addressed the question or even acknowledged wither or not the statistics were true. Then there is his total disregard for human life. During the debate, a court case was brought up about a hate crime in Texas, and Gov. Bush looked overjoyed at the fact that the death penalty is being used. I want nobody that can take pleasure in anyone's death in the white house.

I am adamently against Bush. From his BS tax budget plan to his obviously corrupted policies, I can't ever in my wildest dream concider voting for Bush. I have trouble understanding why anyone but extreme right wingers could.

Gore is not much better. I've heard from friends that he speaks his mind, he doesn't. He is the stereotypical politician. He has never been strait forward on any question. The thing is he has a reason for doing that. He's not an idiot. He knows how close this election is going to be so he can't afford to have a backbone. If he does, he's going to do everything he can to make sure the entire country agrees. Gore does have good qualities. Big on education, big on environmental policies, and his tax plan actually has a chance of working. Also he's willing to implement a Patients Bill of Rights. I'm tired of HMOs and asking my insurance company if I can have certain medications or if my parents can have surgery because they are in constant back problems.

I'm very suprised that Bush is not more environmentally conscious. It was his father Pres. George Bush that was the one that signed the bill for the Clean Air Act.

I honestly can't understand Gov. Bush at all. He is probably a good guy. I can't say I've ever met him but everything he stands for in this election just rubs me the wrong way.

Vote For Gore


Not Bush Pretty Much Somes It Up. I Will Not Mind Al... Oct 23rd. at 3:18:09 pm EDT

Merlin (Cape Cod, Massachusetts US) Age: 16


Not Bush pretty much somes it up. I will not mind Al that much but lets face it Ralph would do much better than those two. Bush has said more than once "I do not think Witchcraft is a religion and I do not think the militery should endorse it" do we realy want that guy to win. No thanks I would take Al Gore any day over Bush.
Blessed BE


I Apologize For An Inaccuracy I Spoke Of In Opinion #963. I... Oct 23rd. at 3:41:00 pm EDT

Andrew Giamis (Binghamton, New York US) Age: 28


I apologize for an inaccuracy I spoke of in Opinion #963.
I mentioned Senator Lott as being the guy with the gasoline, ready to torch the first military witch. I realize that it is Senator Barr to whom I am refering. I am not very familiar with Senator Lott or his policies. I simply mixed up the names.

Either way, my vote is not so much as for Gore (or Hagelin) as it is against Bush.


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