The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
||This Page Viewed: 9,464,062
Vox Q Stats|
Times Viewed: 32,767
Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1
Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003
Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?
Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?
Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?
Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?
What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?
| Reponses: There are 258 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| ?? ||Mar 28th. at 2:43:59 pm UTC|
I think the war is not a way to end problems between countries, the opposite it makes countries angry and causes future problems.Just now a illegal war has began which started the USA by saying that it was to finish with terrorism but which had other secret arrengments like them wanting the petrol.The population is paying for it and lots of people are dying.The allies are not being reasonable and in some countries like Spain, the president and his party is not listening to the people which say that they don´t want a war.This is causing lots of peaceful movements which lately are not that peaceful.People should be able to express their thoughts against war but the problems lately are causing that lots of people to stop going because they are afraid to be hurt in this movements.Aznar listen to your country!!!
NO WAR PLEASE.
| No Suspension Of Civil Liberties ||Mar 28th. at 8:40:23 pm UTC|
|EponaSpirit (Laytonville, CA) ||Age: 54 - Email |
I forgot to respond to the last part of the question, and that is whether I believe it is appropriate to suspend certain civil liberties for increased safety. Let me quote to you one Benjamin Franklin, of Benjamin Franklin fame. He said "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
And there is nothing that I can say that is superior to that. there is no reason to be giving up any liberties for any reason. The fallacy that we need to do so now because of the threat of terrorism and to increase the information gatherin capacity of the government, my response to that is that the government was not able to use the information that it had, why drown it with more? It had information about potential attacks, that could be legally used and would probably have stopped 9/11, but did not use it. The government is incompetent to protect us with all of our liberties in place, suspending those will only increase our danger.
| Were In It Until It's Over Now.... ||Mar 29th. at 12:01:09 am UTC|
|Faolan (Ridgeley, WV) ||Age: 15 - Email - Web|
but that dosn't mean I can't still oppose it. I'll say it once more, I Hate War, I hate the wasting of peoples lives for ficticious reasons, I Hate...well I hate alot of things about this war. But I can't do anything by hating these things, I still do feel this way, and undoubtably with feel this way until Mr. Bush puts a stop to this nonsense, but, we've started into it..yes I know, we all still bitch and moan (well atleast those of us with the courage to do so.) But where is that getting us? Nowhere! Right now, those out on the streets picketing and jamming up traffic, could be supporting our soldiers!! It is not their fault they are over there, they wanted to serve the nation they grew up in, they wanted to protect the place where millions of our fellow Americans have started up lives of their own! Where, supposedly, we are all equal and free. Who wouldn't want to preserve a nation whose foundations conjoin all of the other nations of the world...When you come here, you are a part of ONE nationality, Be you: Latin American, African American, Chinese, Japanese, Cuban, Canadian...Afgani...once you are here, and a citizen, you're a citizen. Lately, with all the Anti-War, Pro-War politics going on, we've become a divided nation.
But, lets face it, AMERICA IS AT WAR, nothing can stop it now, we've gone and pissed EVERYBODY off. Excuse me for laughing, but this could have all been avoided, if a certain Bush Sr. had only finished off when it was first a problem. Our nation's children, are going to war..we don't know how many will return, they go over, and they fight for what they are told to fight for. They fight Freedom, they fight for Bush, they fight for every single person back here at home. Please people, we can't stop the war at this point...so, while they're over across the ocean fighting for us, lets support them, instead of condeming them. Do what you can; visit someone whose son, daughter, wife, husband, or other family member is fighting for us, show them that you are proud of our nation's army...the war may not be for the best reasons in the world, but atleast our soldiers are fightng it for good ones.
| It Is Truly Sad. But How About This... ||Mar 29th. at 12:10:52 am UTC|
|Maleciah (Oregon) ||Age: 25 - Email |
I am truly sad that this war is happening. I wish there was another way to get him out but nevertheless, he needs to go. When those first prisoners of war got taken and video taped, I had a song stuck in my head by avril lavigne and the lyrics would haunt me because all I could see was how scared the woman of that group (Army Spc. Shoshana Johnson) was and how much torment she was in. The whole song reflected this war to me from a POW perspective "isn't there anyone trying to find me? won't somebody come take me home.... take me by the hand take me somewhere new, I don't know who you are but I'm with you." I held her in healing light and cried with her, hoping and praying someone would find her and rescue her. That tore me apart. I will not let her death be in vein.
We saw sandstorms placed in the troops way that were getting worse and worse the closer to baghdad they got. They have since moved on and clear skies and high pressure has set in so that the troops can finish their jobs. They have said the response has been unexpected but there is enough evidence to support that unexpected could mean unexpexted either way. It is still up in the air.
I wish that I had been wrong about governments lying but I am afraid no matter how just and how noble you believe your government to be, there will always be stuff that your government does that you won't like. As a free society and government, your opinion is never the only one considered. there are many countries that are supporting the US and we stopped the ground force untill those forces can be re-allocated and supplied, or so I suspect, we have 4-6 days. This is OUR time to unite as one force to make this war (now that it is in full swing) as quick as possible by surrounding our troops (now that it has come out that other countries have been in this with us the whole time even though their governments deny it publicly) in protective light, guard the children, and make those who are carrying these horrible acts of the regime out more easily spotted.
| It Is Sad But I Am For It. ||Mar 29th. at 12:33:12 am UTC|
|Ashley (Indiana) ||Age: 21 - Email |
I think war is horrible but inevitible. What did these protestors think that Bush should do, lay back and let him walk all over us, and inevitably bomb us? No, no one wants to do that. I feel the same way about it as I did in the beginning. I actually feel they should have gone in sooner and gotten it over. I think the protesting should stop, it's rediculous. What do they think they are proving by burning the flag, it has no feelings and we can just make more, no big deal. The vomitting and deficating protestors, what was that? Is our world not dirty enought that they have to add to it.
I think the only situation where civil liberties should be taken away in war time is when a bioweapon has been released and needs to be quarantined. Something like smallpox would be have to be quarantined of course, and people would freak and thats when you loose your rights. When something like smallpox has to be stopped.
| Conflicted Spirit ||Mar 29th. at 6:49:47 am UTC|
|Foxheart (NH) ||Age: 23 - Email |
I don't know that I ever had a definite position on the issue of war with Iraq. Since the beginning I've been conflicted and confused about the whole thing. On the one hand, as a peace loving person I don't believe violence (especially war) can solve anything. On the other hand Saddam is using violence on his own people to prepare weapons that can hurt and kill even more people. It is obvious this man puts little or no value on human life. Thus, something must be done about this tyrant.
However (and I think I may have stated this before in another post) , I do and will continue to sorrow for all the dead, dying and injured people and soldiers in this war on both sides. This is man versus his own terrible nature and nothing is worse and more terrifying than confronting our dark side. In that way I am against this war. In the other way we must remove Saddam because he is the modern Hitler. Imagine if the Nazis had won WW2!
I don't think the anti-war protests should stop. The people have a right to be heard by their government because this is a government for the people, by the people. Also we are given the right to free speech in this country so let free speech reign. Unfortunately, at this stage I don't believe peace protests will change anyone's mind. As long as no one is hurt in these protests then they are ok because they express legitimate concerns of a large majority of people.
There is a rift forming between people of different ideologies. It is much like the Vietnam war protests. But like all rifts, when the war is over, this one will heal.
I would not care to give up my civil liberties like freedom of speech etc. because this nation is all about freedom. would we be safer without free speech during war time... I don't believe so. I think the government would feel more secure but it would only cause inner strife and separate even further those for and against the war.
My biggest concern with the war in Iraq is that other countries in the area will side with Iraq enough to cause WW3. Armageddon is a possible outcome of this war and it is the most frightening aspect that our government chooses to overlook this is wanting to police the entire planet.
| No I Have Not ||Mar 29th. at 10:07:15 am UTC|
|WhiteSword (Oregon) ||Age: 26 - Email |
Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq? no we need to help and free then
| Not For Pre-Emptive Anything ||Mar 29th. at 11:08:07 am UTC|
|Scott Holman (Iowa) ||Age: 36 - Email |
Well. I wont say im against War in general. This war, however is wrong. Punishing someone for something they might do is akin to punishing a child for something that he might do tommorow.
Saddam, while a psycho is not, nor will he ever be in a position to seriously pose a threat to the U.S. The whole pre-emptive attack malarkey is a pretty apparent veil for other activities and goals.
I dont believe the protests should stop. Reflectively speaking just a short year ago, we had the world at our backs, or at our sides as we hunted down the perpetrators of 9/11. No government, or people protested our hunt. Now...in truth, about 90% of the world is dead set against this, regardless of what politically controlled polls say. The majority of governments in the world are against it either. Im pretty sure the support rates for the war here among American citizens arent truly reflective of the truth either. (An example of this is published unemployment rates, which rate only those people who are drawing unemployment, not people whos benefits ahve run out, or are stuck on welfare, or stuck with no means of income whatsoever)
I believe it is because we have Allowed our government to break the Traditional actions of America. Non Aggression. Never before has America threatened war (at least publicly) on any country for disagreements or imagined violations.
As of yet, except for a few scud duds, and a few minor other violations, there hasnt been one bio or chem weapon found of any viable use. Nor has there been one solitary link between Iraq, and Osama found. It amazes me that our govenrment organizations have found paper, cash, and weapons trails all over the world. Most of them leading to our assured allies in Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia.
Theyve found all that, and they cant find one credible link to Saddam. Personally, as much as I hate to admit it, I believe its because Saddam is either to smart, or not dumb enough to mess with the U.S.. Even petty tyrants want to Live.
As far as suspension of Civil Rights goes, Im pretty sure that is un-constitutional for the large part. I can understand travel restrictions or 'blackouts' in the case of actual war here in America, (something Id like to point out has been pretty much non-existent since the Civil War)
But to suspend the constituion in the name of security opens the doors for far more insidious programs to be slid into place. The very nature of the security act is unconstitutional, as well as many laws which have been slid into place over the last couple of decades that have been hidden in otherwise benign sounding law scripts.
Freedom isnt just a right, its a responsiblity and all people who desire it, should have a say in the method and manner in which they attain freedom. Going in and "freeing" the Iraqi people will only cause resentment, and abuse of the freedoms we have assumed to 'give' them. Without their effort, and their own fight for freedom....it will never be an endearing concept to them. Its kind of like giving your child a car. they have no concept of the value of it, and will most likely abuse and destroy it. Not until they earn it themselves and pay for the upkeep, maintenance and insurance upon it will they place any real value or responsiblity upon it. (and yes, I realize there can be exceptions to this, but not in general)
Its time to wake up, pagan, christian, moslem, jew or atheist or otherwise, take our country back and put a leash back on our government.
One thing I would like to state, Is that for or against this war we should ALL support our soldiers.
They are UNDER orders to do their Jobs and they have little or no choice in the matter.
This time instead of ostracizing our soldiers and blaming them for things they had no choice in, we should support and welcome them home like the human beings they are. Whether or not we support the war, they are doing a job no one else wants to do, or would be willing to do and they really dont have a choice.
| Confused ||Mar 29th. at 1:11:24 pm UTC|
|taylor (USA) ||Age: 13 - Email |
at first i was for the removal of Saddam Hussein (i feel he could be the next Hitler) and i believed that the troops would try to protect Iraqi citizens, but it appears that this isnt happening.i hated calling it a war, rather a liberation, but it seems to have turned into a war, and now i think im against it.
| Still Against It ||Mar 29th. at 1:12:09 pm UTC|
|Bryony Ravenwillow (Independence, MO) ||Age: 34 - Email |
I'm still very much against the war in Iraq. I don't see it as an effort of liberation, but a war of conquest. I truly believe that there is an ulterior motive to all this, reasons behind the war that only Bush's cabal truly understands and believes in.
I find it incredibly ironic that we are taking Saddam out because he owns weapons of mass destruction---that WE sold to him in the first place to use against Iran. We gave him the technology, but now we blame him for having it in his possession. I find it bitterly funny when the newspeople express shock that the natives are actually fighting back, behaving as if we are invaders instead of liberators. I feel sorrow for every life lost because of our administration's arrogance. I feel helpless, sad and depressed because so many have fallen hook, line, and sinker for knee-jerk 'patriotic' jingoism. I am outraged that so many seem to have forgotten that Osama bin Laden is still out there, ecstatic about how well his war is going against us, that the process of rebuilding Afghanistan has been slowed down, that humanitarian efforts are being watered down because there is another country to 'liberate', that the needs of our own people are going unmet.
I believe that the ant-war protests should continue, but not as they are now. It shouldn't be limited to waving signs, chanting slogans, and blocking traffic through die-ins, though I believe such actions are necessary to keep our voices heard. That alone will not bring change, though. To bring change there should be a concerted effort among various groups, working together to effect a regime change of our own in 2004. I think that third-party members should seriously consider not voting Libertarian, Green, etc., and instead make sure that the best Democratic candidate is elected, one that will listen to the people and not to a cabal dedicated to bringing about the New World Order, one that will work with nations instead of going our way regardless of others opinion, one that truly uses war as a last resort.
If Bush is re-elected in 2004, I'm afraid that will be only the beginning of even more terrible things. I think we can kiss our civil liberties good-bye, that 'freedom' will become a mere word reminding us of how things used to be. What I'm really afraid of (and this may just be the paranoia talking) , is that if Bush is re-elected, there won't be a 2008 election.
I feel so many things, have so many opinions and fears and worries. It's hard to articulate it. What I've written so far is just scratching the surface, and isn't expressed particularly well, and maybe even contradictory or unrealistic. We live in fearful times, waiting, watching, holding our breaths, wanting to act and not sure how. May the Lady and Lord guide us, protect us and our troops, and help us in the weeks, months, and years ahead.
| Anti To Pro ||Mar 29th. at 3:31:24 pm UTC|
|BigGreenMonkey (Canada) ||Age: 14 - Email |
At first I went along with anti war. How could war be a good thing? Then I looked a little closer at the information I had. I became pro war. People have said that Bush has his own motives, ect. Well, of course he does. There's oil, an easy target, and the chance to say to his dad 'I fixed your mistake.' But the point is, compared to Saddam, he apears to be the better option. While I would have preferred the attack to have been lead by another country, only the US is standing up, and I'd take what I could get.
| Why Would It Change? ||Mar 29th. at 4:12:59 pm UTC|
|Serena (Wichita, KS) ||Age: 25 - Email |
My mind hasn't changed, but then again, I've probably been what you would call "on the fence" the whole time. I do not like the aspects of war everyone else has mentioned, innocents being harmed, troops being killed, etc... I don't like Mr. Bush's politics, nor his "don't mess with Texas/United States" attitude.
I DO remember what 9/11 felt like, and how I couldn't return to the school library until more than a year later. (I watched it all there as a volunteer that day.) I also know what it feels like to have a loved one over there. He is in the Navy on the Kittyhawk, and farther away from action than many families' loved ones, but he is still there, there are still mines in the water & I still worry.
So my stance has been confirmed. I protest the war, but I firmly, totally support our troops, who are there on orders, simple, and complicated as that is.
Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2014 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.
Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.
Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wrenâ€™s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witchesâ€™ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.
Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.
Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.