The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
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Question of the Week: 95 - 1/19/2003
How Do You Feel About War?
‘Yes I'm talking about this war dance/ A patriotic romance./And I know all you poets/Have seen it all before…’ – Colin Moulding, XTC
Colin: ‘The words were originally prompted by the Falklands War in 1982. But it was too much on one piece of history. Then along came the Persian Gulf War and I put the revised lyrics to a new piece of music. It was time to bring war out of the closet again.’
And again, it would seem. How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?
Do your political leanings influence how you feel?
Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?
| Reponses: There are 153 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| What Movie? ||Jan 26th. at 1:51:46 am UTC|
|diesel (washington) ||Age: 46 - Email |
i forgot to add...what movie shows the rest of the world how we think they should live?
and it's a M-O-V-I-E.
fiction.......and hollywood doesn't really count as america. it's more like a separate planet.
it sounds more and more like jealous grumbling. i have not heard any viable solutions to this. let's hear some....that would be constructive.
and i don't mean the "i'm just gonna sit in the middle of the street chanting" solutions either.
amusing that you attack america and not the guy using the VX.
have you ever seen what that does to someone? it's not good.
| Against War, But For The Military ||Jan 26th. at 2:39:12 am UTC|
|Michael Bowles (Honolulu, Hawaii) ||Age: 42 - Email |
I am a pacifist by nature and by choice. I do not think war can create anything but more violence and hatred. However, I also think that this proposed war is being pushed by just a few power mad fools and most people in the military are not personally wishing for war. I support our brothers and sisters in the military who are after all being true to their sworn oaths, while at the same time praying for peace and joining my voice with the millions of others who think a war in Iraq is a VERY bad idea..
| Ok Here An Idea ||Jan 26th. at 3:47:26 am UTC|
|Skeggi (New Zealand) ||Age: 32 - Email |
How about we take a tiny fraction of the war budget and go to countries that have a need of industry or medicine etc and provide it.
Why not do something to stop the violence in palistine, which would show alot of islamic countries that you are not the evil empire.
Why not stop not providing medicine to countries because they cant pay the bill.
And instead of setting up dependent economies, help them to become independent and self sufficent.
I remember a Vietinese soilder saying the only way to defeat them was to come here and eat rice for a thousand years and then well all be vetinese so no problem.
The only way to defeat an enemy is with love.
| TO: Skeggi (New Zealand), All New Zealand, And All Canadians ||Jan 26th. at 4:31:12 am UTC|
|Odin (Anacortes, WA) ||Age: 47 - Email |
Hello Skeggi of (New Zealand)
I wish to share with you, and all those from New Zealand and Canada that the voice that is insulting you all from Washington State is only one person, and I (Odin) from Washington State, and every Pagan that I know in Washington State, does not condone the behaviour which is being displayed to you on this "Question of the Week" by one person of our beautiful State. On behalf of Washington State I wish to apologize to all in New Zealand and in Canada, and ask that you not view the rest of us as rude Americans for the ill mannerisms of this one individual.
Skeggi, I am sure that you actually do view the United States as a bully, and for good reason. However, I understand our position, and although I can explain it in a mature manner, it will still result in the truth, that yes, we are the ruling nation on the planet. That is due to the fact that the United States is the largest stockholder of voting shares in the corporation known as the International Monetary Fund (IMF). We hold 19.96% of the voting share stock, more than any other member nation, and as in any Corporation, the person with the most stock is the ruling force. That is why the United Nations is Headquartered in the United States. This doesn't take away from the fact that it isn't fair to any other nation, or that it is fair that we force our way of life upon another citizen in any nation. But it is the most truthful answer that anyone can give you.
In addition, the United States is not alone in making these decisions. Prior to the rise of Hilter, the United States didn't involve itself much in the control of other nations. Then we had to help Europe and Russia in it's War with Hitler, and at the same time we got hit at Pearl Harbor by the Japanese, and if not that we got control of Hiltler's oil and invented the first atomic bomb, we might have not survived that War. Each nation that became the survivors of World War II (European Nations, Russia, United States, etc.) then formed the United Nations to end all World Wars. That another Hilter could never be allowed to rise in power, and to accomplish this, we DEMAND that every nation on the planet join the United Nations and comply to their rules. Iraq, Osama, and North Korean have refused. Therefore at all cost they shall be dealt with at their national level, even killing them all if necessary; rather than to allow them to become another Hilter or worst. This agenda includes dictating terms and conditions to other nations. No nation on the planet is today allowed to remain free and independent because of technology. Today any fanatical group can make an atomic bomb to fit in a suitcase, and biological weapons can be released into the atmosphere from anywhere and kill a great portion of the World's populist without warning. Someone on a ship could release a biological weapon near New Zealand and your entire population could be killed in a matter of minutes. So when we defend America against the likes of Saddam, we are also defending New Zealand and any other nation that could become a target of fanatical individuals.
It is because of technology that we must today become a One World Government. The old ways can no longer exist, to demand independence is suicide for every nation in the world. Everyone, every nation must therefore be monitored, and their weapons checked, controlled, or destroyed. When we control Iraq, we not only guarantee that the United States will be safe, but that New Zealand, Canada, and every Nation on the planet will be safe.
Therefore what seems to you as the United States being a bully, is the United States being a part of the United Nations that is being the bully. It is due to the fact that we own the greatest amount of stock in the IMF (corporation) that we are committed to place the greatest amount of military force to Iraq and Osama. And then to North Korea, and to any person or any nation on the planet that will not comply with the United Nations Authorities. We won World War II. We did that, and not any other nation. We saved the world of Hilter, and so it is our right as the victors to set the terms and conditions.
As I promised, I have given you the answer to your questions in an adult manner. And I am sure that such an answer will never satisfy most, because many see a peaceful world, and have not the eyes to see that this is still the clean up of post World War II (that we still haven't accomplished the agenda after WWII of a One World Government). Many are so young as displayed by the ages of many that have posted to this article, not having but a few years (or in this case but a few hours) to experience War, or our nation in a War. World Peace will only be obtained when the entire world becomes a One World Government. Then War will end on the planet and we will live together as one. As long as there remain independent nations, War will always be with us.
And to all my friends in Canada. I have spent much time in your beautiful nation. I have always been treating kindly, even when I once broke down in Northern British Columbia by the Yukon border did your fellow countrymen come to my aid, gave me shelter and towed my vehicle at no charge for almost a hundred miles to a garage for repairs. You are the kindess people that I have ever met on this planet and you are most welcome to my country to receive any medical attention that you require, and you are most welcome to visit us in peace anytime. I deeply apologize for the rudeness displayed in other posts herein by someone of my beautiful and peaceful Washington State.
With deepest apologies,
| Win It Fast? ||Jan 26th. at 10:46:56 am UTC|
|silverheart (Texas, usa) ||Age: 41 - Email |
In an earlier post,
it is stated by the poster that "I think they should bring back the draft so all you who bad mouth this country can experience first hand also how certain religious cults hate us" , and something else about "forming local militia groups to defend the towns and cities from attacks" One needs to be reminded that when those "local Mitlitia groups" that you propose to have defend our towns and villages (who will be run by the "Christian" cult members) get wind of who she is they will drag her butt out in the street and shoot it too.
| Fuel For Diesel ||Jan 26th. at 2:41:48 pm UTC|
|Rose (Canada) ||Age: 40 - Email |
I say NO WAR IN IRAQ !!. I am really concerned with the blatant oil grab of the Bush government and their oil buddy Blair. They already have plans on taking the oil fields (securing them) Apparently now Bush is willing to hold off for a few weeks to drum up support for this war with other countries, guess what, the U.S. is offering to divy up the oil with them, it won't just be Britian and the U.S. having it all for themselves. I have also read and heard on the news that the U.S. will use NUCLEAR WEAPONS, in Iraq, as retaliation for or as a PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE if they think that Iraq is POSSIBLY, going to use chemical or biological weapons. Yup , the U.S. has them little NUKES, they call them bunker-busters, isn't that cute, little bombs , lots of radiation! Bear in mind that Iraq, has attacked NO ONE. If the U.S. does attack Iraq though that would be considered a breach of International Law, and the U.S, and it's allies could be tried as war criminals, now the U.S. did not want to sign on to this treaty, because good old Henry Kissinger would be tried as a war criminal.Britian did sign this treaty,though. So did Canada. A group of about 100 lawyers world wide has sent nice letters of warning to Mr. Bush & Mr Rumsfield, saying they would make every attempt to have them tried as WAR CRIMINALS!! Indeed they would be!! I am going to remind all the people who read these letters that the U.S. has been the only country ever in the world to unleash the worst weapon of mass destruction on Japan, they did it for maximum damage and fried , burnt, melted thousand of innocent civilians. No other country has ever done this since. Someone has been saying things on this site that are so smug & unbelievably true I must correct them. The U.S. actually produces very little, that is why they are running such huge trade deficits, that means they are buying lots more then they are selling.So much of what we but is made in third-world countries, that American corporations exploit for cheap labour. NIKE, GAP et al. If Canada was invaded and some turned a blind eye, the U.S. would actually lose in a huge way, why? because they import our oil and our electricity. the U.S. is a huge energy hog and can't go without it's Canadian supply.Oh and the communist party is printing signs is such a blatant bit of propoganda, you should be ashamed you even said that, your fellow Americans & citizens from all the other countries in this world are free to say their opinions, that does not make them communists, what if they printed the signs themselves. McArthyism was a black mark in the history of America, are you attempting to repeat it? I could go on there is so much more, covert wars and overthrown democracies, regime changes that were in the interests of the U.S.. DON'T make the same mistake in Iraq, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WILL DIE!
| WAR IS WRONG ||Jan 26th. at 2:56:36 pm UTC|
|Laura Naylor (Cleethorpes) ||Age: 12 - Email |
WAR IS WRONG, its just an excuse for world leaders to play with their toys. they dont kare how it affects nebody but themslves and dont listen 2 ne1 elses opnion, sum1 should strip them of theyre power bcoz its pefetic.
| Mixed Emotions ||Jan 26th. at 4:06:18 pm UTC|
|Heather (Aurora, CO) ||Age: 26 - Email |
I think my spiritual perspective is heavily mixed with my upbringing as a Catholic, an Army Brat and my political leanings. I really can't separate them in the case of war. I especially don't see a reason why a person believing in a triple God/Goddess-tradition should be totally against conflict. After all, one of the incarnations of the God is as Warrior. And who can ignore the Morrigan? Then there's Athena and Ares.
I am a Dove. I am a pacifist. I dislike war. However, I was raised to realize that war is an evil necessity in SOME cases. The best case in point is, of course, WW2. How else would Hitler have been stopped if not by a war. And if Hitler had been allowed to continue, what kind of society would we have now? I don't even want to imagine it.
About this particular war that we are talking about, I don't agree with it. I believe it is both foolish and motivated by greed or stupidity. (I'm not sure which) However, I will support to my dying day the troops we send over because it is my honor and privilege to know what a hard task they have before them, and to know that they will lay down their lives for mine. No matter what I think of the bureaucracy, the troops are those that will suffer loss of life, limbs and peace of mind.
We seem to be heading that way, no matter how many protests we wage, or words we use. When it starts, we must concentrate on the well-being of the men and women serving in each military as well as the civilians that will be affected by it. Let us simply hope it is as bloodless as possible.
I feel I have no trouble supporting my conflicting views to anyone, simply because they are my views and I think that war is one of the cases where logic, as lovely as it is, doesn't truly apply.
| War ||Jan 26th. at 5:21:05 pm UTC|
|Chirotus (Kansas City) ||Age: 25 - Email |
"How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?"
War isn't pleasant, but it's a natural expression of basic human nature and tendancies, and it cannot be denied that it serves a significant purpose in our society -- I would even argue that it is necesary in many cases. Still, it must be acknowledged that there must be limits placed on war and how it is carried out. It must also be pointed out that not all armed conflicts count as war -- genocide, for example, is not war, as the object of war is to establish domanance over people/territory, not totally eliminate a nationality.
I admit that it does seem nice to want a world without war, but I don't think human nature allows for this. The most we can do is be as intellegent as possible about it and make sure that millitary force is what's required for a given situation, and when it does come down to war, do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.
"Do your political leanings influence how you feel?"
Perhaps. I place an importance on using military force to protect US borders from outside threats.
"Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?"
Not really. There are always those people that claim that true pagans don't advocate war, but those poeple usually aren't interested in hearing my side anyway, so I don't bother to present it. Bottom line is some people are willing to listen, whether they disagree or not, and some people aren't. Most people who are willing to listen are intellegent enough to respect the fact that my beliefs differ from them -- something very important for someone who would participate in a community with such diverse beleifs as modern Paganism.
| What I Think About War ||Jan 26th. at 7:05:53 pm UTC|
|Shae Walker (Massachusetts) ||Age: 15 - Email |
I think war is a bad thing. No one should have to go out and fight and loose their life for something stupid. Most wars are over something very stupid and there is no use in fighting them. The war that is going on now is stupid. I say this because we did nothing to Irac and they just up and decided to bomb us. Just because they don't like the way that we are untied and how we get slong. I think that they should follow what we do and become united and not go and bomb a country. What they did was ideotic and it should have never happened. In the past there were wars that were faught for good reasons, but some of those reasons were stupid. I think that there should be no wars and everyone should keep their oppinons to themselves if it is based on something bad. The United States got its name because we were once united and we plan to stay that way. No war shall keep us from living in peace and getting on with our lives.
| A Piece Of Peace ||Jan 26th. at 7:42:22 pm UTC|
|Lena (Honolulu, Hawaii) ||Age: 17 - Email |
No one loves to fight. Perhaps I'm wrong. There are people out there who are against peace. A good example are the terrorists themselves. They were the cause of war. There's no such thing to me as war; as it goes to no such thing as coincidences to us witches. Every little situation here starts with a cause. There's no one to blame when people think different, like a mental illness. We can't be helped if we can't help ourselves--the only way we could get out of this mess. Since we're already in war, I just pity the army out there; they are sitting in the desert, helping the American's fight for a piece of peace! I wonder if someday, everyone would think alike, not different. Just like how my friend oppose to Paganism while I think that Pagan's aren't that bad. That's because she doesn't know that there are positive and negative sides of a Pagan, and that's why people are in war with only one word: confusion. I hope one day, everyone would share a piece of peace within themselves, so that we don't have to suffer through war. Blessed Be.
| War Is War ||Jan 26th. at 8:13:51 pm UTC|
|GrayShadow (CA) ||Age: 24 - Email |
I agree with most...War really is a terrible thing. Innocent lives are lost...on both sides. It is too bad that the head of each country couldn't go into a ring and beat the crap out of one another to determine the winner, but this is wishful thinking. With day comes night, with life comes death, and with peace comes war (unfortunately). Not every person on this earth shares the same morals and values as some of us do. Because of this, aggression will mount, minds will clash, and war is inevitable. Most people out there do the best they can, and what they think is right…including America. It pains me to read such animosity from other countries towards America, especially over this issue. The US could have done many things differently to prevent us from being in this situation…but it didn’t…. and here we are. War is wrong, but the US is officially stuck between a rock and a hard place. As I said, I do not agree that war is the right answer, but as an American I will stand behind my country. I believe as a world power that has been attacked, we have a moral obligation to defend ourselves, and protect the safety of other countries…. Yes, even those countries that find us arrogant and intimidating. And I do believe that if Mr. Saddam is not stopped, America and MANY other countries will be in danger. Our country isn’t perfect by no means…(if we were, we wouldn’t be a country, we would be the world), but America has given me many freedoms that I wouldn’t have else where (freedom of religion being one of them), and if war is believed to be the only solution than I will fight for my country and stand behind it 100% (ok…99%).
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