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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,250,910  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


War Solves Nothing.... Mar 31st. at 10:33:18 am UTC

Wendella (kenosha, wi) Age: 38 - Email


I am against the war because it solves nothing. I am also against those who protest the war by use of violence or by making it difficult for others to continue with their lives because they have to block the way. That makes them no better than the politicians pushing the war. Those protesters give the rest of us against the war a bad rap. Please, demonstrate in a peaceful manner. Isn't that what the protest is about anyway, PEACE? If protesters don't demonstrate peacefully, how can they sway anyone's decision.

As for taking some civil liberties away, that makes our government no better than the one we are trying to throw out in Iraq. Is it fair to take away what we have worked so hard for? What message does that send the world about our country? The US is run by hippocrates because they tell the world to be a free and our own freedoms are being taken away and given to CORPORATIONS, a non-living entity.

What concerns me most about the war is the future it will provide for our children. They will inherit the War Invoice and pay. They will inherit an even sicker planet because of the distruction since GW wants to have permission granted for the Military to be above the environmental laws. It also concerns me because Dubya thinks he is the Messiah with "A charge to keep" since his Mommy told him he was a Moses figure.

War is a devise of the paternistic world we live in. Men have a tendency to think with the wrong brain. Look at the missles being used to blow things up. There is a resemblence don't you think?

I am for peace, love, and harmony.....Blessed be to everyone!!!!

Wendella


Past Mistakes Mar 31st. at 12:26:24 pm UTC

Toni (England) Age: 13 - Email


I don't agree with this war and I never did. I don't see how all the politicians and President Bush can justify killing innocent people. I know that Haussen has killed a lot of his people, but aren't we going to kill a lot more by bombing his country? What is the point of making us learn about war and how horrible it is in school if we're going to make the same mistakes over and over again? I know a lot of people don't take teenagers and children seriously because they're young and that, but they should do. We may only be young but we know the difference between right and wrong, between peace and war. And we know war is wrong.


Old War Or New Mar 31st. at 12:29:30 pm UTC

brigid (pittsburgh) Age: 33 - Email


my opinion has not changed on this war...i haven't even decided yet if this is a new war or a continuation of the original desert storm/gulf war. the fact of the matter is that george w. is trying to clean up the mess his father left behind...both wars though were about oil. even gen. schwarzkopf (if that's how you spell it) believes that (hindsight being 20-20) we should have never delcared a cease-fire in desert storm...we should have finished the job and taken out saddam hussein then. if the u.s. is really going to stay in iraq this time and clean up and put a new government in place and make sure it takes hold then possibly this war may be a good thing in the long run. sadly though, iraq is a nation full of infighting between it's tribal peoples and they have been fighting amongst themselves for millenia. that will not likely change no matter what we do. it just all seems so pointless. even more so when you realize that they are really only fighting about oil. we are a technologically advanced society. let's spend our money and lives developing new technologies to make oil obsolete. it is better for all of us and mother earth. above all else we should all heed the wiccan rede "an it harm none, do what thou will". i'll support our troops but never the war!


Congratulations USA Mar 31st. at 2:36:05 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


I would like to publicly congratulate the USa and her Allies, Both of them, for bringing up the figure of 5000 Iraqi dead. Well done. Excellent work. That will teach them to live in another country.
Skeggi


The Man Bringing You Down Again? Mar 31st. at 6:21:00 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Am I to understand that you guys want to let the people inside Iraq get saddam out on their own? do you think they can? if that is the case, why hasn't it been done by the Iraqi people already? if he is as bad as everyone says he is. What other option do the Iraqi people have than to have outside help to cripple him? I am curious cause I am for getting him out but all I hear is critisism about both sides, that he needs to go and that the US is "slaughtering" people in Iraq. If you want Saddam out? what would have gotten him out short of this? if you really wanted to take pride in Iraq then why were you not back at home fighting him to where the US didn't have the excuse of Saddam to go in and get him out? why were you not fighting for your country then? why would you wait till the US comes and starts this campaign before you get angry enough to fight for your country and it's freedom? why would you have waited so long to get him out if you didn't need outside help? Patriotism is a relative term eh? Or was it just ok to have him there killing because he happens to be arabian? Cause it is one of your own country, you are not ok with fighting him all this time? but the US steps in to finish the job they get yelled at? It sounds like so many people are too busy shouting their anger and getting it out to fight or do something to change it.. such is the life of living under a dictator.


I Hate War But.......... Mar 31st. at 6:22:41 pm UTC

Marci (new jersey) Age: 39 - Email


I hate the idea of war, the reality of war, the loss of war............all of it, but............the fact is , now, that is what's happening and we really need to support our troops even if we don't "agree" with the war. I am prior military and it has to feel like a slap in the face to our people every time they hear of a protest. they need us to be behind them. to know we love them and that we're thinking of them , night and day. they need to know that we are sending as much positive energy their way as we can, not that we are screaming in the streets how wrong they are and how wrong the prez is, all negative energy in many ways. Namaste,
Marci


Support????? Mar 31st. at 6:31:05 pm UTC

Dan Magick (Québec City) Age: 43 - Email


Personaly I don't think getting people killed in a stupid and obviously poorly thought out war is supporting them.I would not shed a tear if George W Custer chocked to death on
a pretzel but I wish no harm to the soldiers on either side
and I want them all to go home to their families.


Questions Asked Of Me By Iraqi People. And My Response.. Mar 31st. at 7:02:58 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


"I welcome your help in freeing my country from this dictator.. but what price should I pay?"

Imagine, that is a good question.. but I have to agree. If Iraqis want our help to free their country, I am more than happy to lend a hand to help them in that. and I think that is the main way most americans who support this war feel. cause Saddam aint comin out till someone goes in and gets him. Should we continue as a global community to stand by while Saddam stays in power cause he:

1. Killed his people?
2. Tortured his people (in a myriad of unimaginable ways, such as dipping them in acid baths, placing in them in human wood-chippers, etc) ?
3. Invaded his neighbors (Iran and Kuwait) ?
4. Raped his citizens and neighbors?

I could go on and on, ...

and then another Iraqi chirpped in:

DON'T!...

I will..

5. Wasted Iraq's huge fortune on useless Military build-up and personal pleasures
6. Pushed out 5 million educated "best of the best" Iraqis into diaspora
7. Brought the country back to a 19th century lifestyle, overwhelmed with poverty and lack of essential neccessities
8. Abused every possible human right that may exist
9. Filled prime TV time with his speeches and songs that praise what he has just said (you cannot appreciate this unless you were an iraqi with a choice of TWO channels on your TV set: His channel, or his Son's!)
10. ......

I will stop.. but other Iraqis can and will continue...

And to answer these questions that were posed:

"what if Iraqis, after the "liberation", decided to have full control over their Oil, or let Tootal/Elf/Fina or AGIP lbe the major investor, not exxon/Mobile? Would the US wage another war on the "Free Iraq" to protect its interests?"

>I don't think that going with another company that is not US is going to piss off the US government at all as long as the money goes to the people. As far as oil goes not much of our oil comes from Iraq anymore. So, it wouldn't hurt US interests if they did decide to. but would still work with the UN for the oil for food program, that is if the Iraqi people still saw it as beneficial. I think you will only see after this is over, that the US will offer as much or as little help as the new government that is elected there dictates. but on that, only time will tell.

"What if a post-Saddam, democratically elected government chose NOT to sign a peace treaty with Israel? Would the US call for an urgent UN SC meeting to issue resolution 2453 condemning ".........." (fill with anything of your choice, from human rights abuse to WMD) and enforces sanctions on a disobedient Iraq?"

> I don't think the US would put their sights that high and put that kind of pressure on a newly formed government that they just had soldiers die for. including the peace treaty w/ isreal. But admittedly it would be a topic of debate.

maybe I am just looking at a "mirage" as some of you put it. I prefer to call it a dream. And in my country, I try to make my dreams come true. And there is a few things else to consider..

- Americans are not dumb in the respect that we DO know what the press says is not the complete story. And some are good enough at reading into the media well enough to know what is actually happening. Most of the media show that is now in play is a propoganda war that Iraq and the US are both fighting.

- If the conspiracy theorists were right all this time and that the US military enslaved the civilian population here in America. I would truly be scared. Because no nation in this world would care if the American civilian population was enslaved enough to save us from an oppressive government. Some would probably even laugh about it. Saying "how does it feel!!!" How do you think that would make us as American citizens feel if we were ever locked up by our government? Scared for our life.

Would I have deserved it? Had I committed an offense? Would there be anyone or any nation that had the guts to step in and tell the US that they could not kill their own civilians? Would my prayers and energy that was shot through the night fall on deaf ears? Would my tears be tunrned away from by the rest of the world? Gods I hope not.


The Bottom Line.. Mar 31st. at 7:23:21 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Bottom line is:

- War is here! We can not change that anymore. It is too late for "Anti-War" demonstration as peaceful solutions are not an option anymore.
- If the war stops today, Saddam will stay. Not only that, he will be hero. And no matter how many Iraqis he kills after the war, NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will ever know and care.

- The longer the war takes, the more causalities. The more Iraqis die. All Iraqis are precious souls, no matter who they are. Even Fedayee Saddam and Republic Army are Iraqis that we should be sad to see go. So the less resistant, the less defending of Saddam stronghold, the faster Saddam is gone.

- We as Iraqis, should be ready after the war is over. We need all resources available to pour into a strong commitment to a free Iraq and to a strong public opinion about an independent Iraq. The road of democracy would be a very long one and hard one even after Saddam is gone.

- Arabic nationalism are good, but Iraq should come first! I am very worried that after we get rid of Saddam we go back to the 40s and 50s Era when a very strong nationalism were strong. Some opportunistics such as "Mumar Khadafi", "Bu-Reqeeba", "Haviz Assad" and "Saddam Hussain & Baker" used the oppressed people sentiment to become presidents and then dictators with no elections or democracy in mind.


Hey Skeggi.. Mar 31st. at 9:21:16 pm UTC

MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) Age: 39 - Email


If you please, I'd like to know where you got your info on the 5, 000 people dead.. I've surfed quite a few Country's articles on Iraq and have yet to find such a figure. Thank you...

We can all see the "flaming" feelings this war is conjuring and I think it sucks. I want to go into a rant about the anti-American sentiments of late, but that is what free speech is all about. Thou the more I'm hearing of it I'm noticing that I'm starting to get defensive like you would if someone was dissing one of your own. A few swear words come to mind.

If a bunch of global Pagans can't get along in a mature manner, treating other opinions with respect, what hope is there for the rest of our civilization? Enlightened my butt!

How are we going to get to deep-space or why are we even building ISS if we can't even agree to disagree. We as a world society have a lot of advancing to do.

The Goddesses & Gods are coming and boy are they pissed & disapointed.

We've got a lot of explaining to do..

I'm not liking this *fog of war* one little bit. Too bad saddam didn't chose exile and save a lot of innocent/dead people...but wait, he doesn't *value* life at all..except his. Good thing we *Do* or this war would have been done the very first day, probably the first *Hour*.

Freedom of Speech.. It's a wonderful thing. Too bad it can cut like a sharp knife at times.

With Respect & Sadness..

MoonOwl

OO
'


Nope, I Haven't Changed My Mind One Bit Mar 31st. at 11:21:39 pm UTC

Siodbon (Vermont) Age: 35 - Email


I didn't support the war before it started, why would I support it now? While I feel for the troops and their loved ones I also feel for the Iraqi people. Are things really going to get better for them? Somehow I have my doubts.

I do not think antiwar protests should stop, there is so much more to the protests then just ending the war, though right now that is the biggest part. There are many family members of service men and women who are perticipating in these protests, I think that says something about the love and support being sent to the troops by people who do not support the war but do support the troops.

I do not think the suppretion of civil liberties is appropriate at anytime, especially during war. No I do not feel safer if anything I feel more threatend.

I do not understand how the US can go to war despite the UN and still bring up Geniva Conventions.


Moon Owl Mar 31st. at 11:30:28 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


These figures were reported on our news this morning.
They comprised of around 4500 soilders and about 500 civilians.
Skeggi


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