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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 10,357,484  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Questions Asked Of Me By Iraqi People. And My Response.. Mar 31st. at 7:02:58 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


"I welcome your help in freeing my country from this dictator.. but what price should I pay?"

Imagine, that is a good question.. but I have to agree. If Iraqis want our help to free their country, I am more than happy to lend a hand to help them in that. and I think that is the main way most americans who support this war feel. cause Saddam aint comin out till someone goes in and gets him. Should we continue as a global community to stand by while Saddam stays in power cause he:

1. Killed his people?
2. Tortured his people (in a myriad of unimaginable ways, such as dipping them in acid baths, placing in them in human wood-chippers, etc) ?
3. Invaded his neighbors (Iran and Kuwait) ?
4. Raped his citizens and neighbors?

I could go on and on, ...

and then another Iraqi chirpped in:

DON'T!...

I will..

5. Wasted Iraq's huge fortune on useless Military build-up and personal pleasures
6. Pushed out 5 million educated "best of the best" Iraqis into diaspora
7. Brought the country back to a 19th century lifestyle, overwhelmed with poverty and lack of essential neccessities
8. Abused every possible human right that may exist
9. Filled prime TV time with his speeches and songs that praise what he has just said (you cannot appreciate this unless you were an iraqi with a choice of TWO channels on your TV set: His channel, or his Son's!)
10. ......

I will stop.. but other Iraqis can and will continue...

And to answer these questions that were posed:

"what if Iraqis, after the "liberation", decided to have full control over their Oil, or let Tootal/Elf/Fina or AGIP lbe the major investor, not exxon/Mobile? Would the US wage another war on the "Free Iraq" to protect its interests?"

>I don't think that going with another company that is not US is going to piss off the US government at all as long as the money goes to the people. As far as oil goes not much of our oil comes from Iraq anymore. So, it wouldn't hurt US interests if they did decide to. but would still work with the UN for the oil for food program, that is if the Iraqi people still saw it as beneficial. I think you will only see after this is over, that the US will offer as much or as little help as the new government that is elected there dictates. but on that, only time will tell.

"What if a post-Saddam, democratically elected government chose NOT to sign a peace treaty with Israel? Would the US call for an urgent UN SC meeting to issue resolution 2453 condemning ".........." (fill with anything of your choice, from human rights abuse to WMD) and enforces sanctions on a disobedient Iraq?"

> I don't think the US would put their sights that high and put that kind of pressure on a newly formed government that they just had soldiers die for. including the peace treaty w/ isreal. But admittedly it would be a topic of debate.

maybe I am just looking at a "mirage" as some of you put it. I prefer to call it a dream. And in my country, I try to make my dreams come true. And there is a few things else to consider..

- Americans are not dumb in the respect that we DO know what the press says is not the complete story. And some are good enough at reading into the media well enough to know what is actually happening. Most of the media show that is now in play is a propoganda war that Iraq and the US are both fighting.

- If the conspiracy theorists were right all this time and that the US military enslaved the civilian population here in America. I would truly be scared. Because no nation in this world would care if the American civilian population was enslaved enough to save us from an oppressive government. Some would probably even laugh about it. Saying "how does it feel!!!" How do you think that would make us as American citizens feel if we were ever locked up by our government? Scared for our life.

Would I have deserved it? Had I committed an offense? Would there be anyone or any nation that had the guts to step in and tell the US that they could not kill their own civilians? Would my prayers and energy that was shot through the night fall on deaf ears? Would my tears be tunrned away from by the rest of the world? Gods I hope not.


The Bottom Line.. Mar 31st. at 7:23:21 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Bottom line is:

- War is here! We can not change that anymore. It is too late for "Anti-War" demonstration as peaceful solutions are not an option anymore.
- If the war stops today, Saddam will stay. Not only that, he will be hero. And no matter how many Iraqis he kills after the war, NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will ever know and care.

- The longer the war takes, the more causalities. The more Iraqis die. All Iraqis are precious souls, no matter who they are. Even Fedayee Saddam and Republic Army are Iraqis that we should be sad to see go. So the less resistant, the less defending of Saddam stronghold, the faster Saddam is gone.

- We as Iraqis, should be ready after the war is over. We need all resources available to pour into a strong commitment to a free Iraq and to a strong public opinion about an independent Iraq. The road of democracy would be a very long one and hard one even after Saddam is gone.

- Arabic nationalism are good, but Iraq should come first! I am very worried that after we get rid of Saddam we go back to the 40s and 50s Era when a very strong nationalism were strong. Some opportunistics such as "Mumar Khadafi", "Bu-Reqeeba", "Haviz Assad" and "Saddam Hussain & Baker" used the oppressed people sentiment to become presidents and then dictators with no elections or democracy in mind.


Hey Skeggi.. Mar 31st. at 9:21:16 pm UTC

MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) Age: 39 - Email


If you please, I'd like to know where you got your info on the 5, 000 people dead.. I've surfed quite a few Country's articles on Iraq and have yet to find such a figure. Thank you...

We can all see the "flaming" feelings this war is conjuring and I think it sucks. I want to go into a rant about the anti-American sentiments of late, but that is what free speech is all about. Thou the more I'm hearing of it I'm noticing that I'm starting to get defensive like you would if someone was dissing one of your own. A few swear words come to mind.

If a bunch of global Pagans can't get along in a mature manner, treating other opinions with respect, what hope is there for the rest of our civilization? Enlightened my butt!

How are we going to get to deep-space or why are we even building ISS if we can't even agree to disagree. We as a world society have a lot of advancing to do.

The Goddesses & Gods are coming and boy are they pissed & disapointed.

We've got a lot of explaining to do..

I'm not liking this *fog of war* one little bit. Too bad saddam didn't chose exile and save a lot of innocent/dead people...but wait, he doesn't *value* life at all..except his. Good thing we *Do* or this war would have been done the very first day, probably the first *Hour*.

Freedom of Speech.. It's a wonderful thing. Too bad it can cut like a sharp knife at times.

With Respect & Sadness..

MoonOwl

OO
'


Nope, I Haven't Changed My Mind One Bit Mar 31st. at 11:21:39 pm UTC

Siodbon (Vermont) Age: 35 - Email


I didn't support the war before it started, why would I support it now? While I feel for the troops and their loved ones I also feel for the Iraqi people. Are things really going to get better for them? Somehow I have my doubts.

I do not think antiwar protests should stop, there is so much more to the protests then just ending the war, though right now that is the biggest part. There are many family members of service men and women who are perticipating in these protests, I think that says something about the love and support being sent to the troops by people who do not support the war but do support the troops.

I do not think the suppretion of civil liberties is appropriate at anytime, especially during war. No I do not feel safer if anything I feel more threatend.

I do not understand how the US can go to war despite the UN and still bring up Geniva Conventions.


Moon Owl Mar 31st. at 11:30:28 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


These figures were reported on our news this morning.
They comprised of around 4500 soilders and about 500 civilians.
Skeggi


Help Us Out ..back Up Your Position. Apr 1st. at 2:57:24 am UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Care to elaborate skeggi? I have been looking to.. can you give us a source besides "our news this morning"?


Gunshythirdeye Apr 1st. at 3:43:43 am UTC

Kathy Gray (Anchorage, Alaska) Age: 49 - Email


I don't know I have mixed emotions we the US put this guy in power. We have to be responsible for that. We put the
Taliban in power too. We helped Osma Bin Laden. Most of these repressive dictators came into power with our help
even Hitler at first was helped by us. We tend to plant most the these guys we have to be responsible. I don't like seeing the bombardment of non-stop news on the Iraqi War Show. But I can't sit here and enjoy my organic dinner and knowing that so many in the world are suffering any more I'm glad that I'm not there. Our military are there and it would be nice if they could come home tomarrow but that can't happen we are into this to our eye balls and there is no turning back now. So I have to give our people as much support as I can. Goddess is watching over them. I don't support the men who sent them overthere, I just can't trust them, I don't even want to go there. We can't turn back the clock and undo what has been done, what's done is done. I only hope that it will end soon and hope is all that I have for that. I light a candle every night for our troops and the people of Iraq and hope that this will end soon and we all can heal.
Thank Your
Gunshythirdeye


Gunshythirdeye Apr 1st. at 4:39:58 am UTC

Kathy Gray (Anchorage, Alaska) Age: 49 - Email


I've read through and I am impressed with all of you. I admire the tolerance and peace of each response. I like it here. War is the ultimate symbol of failure. And sadly our troops and the innocent people of Iraq are the victems and pawns.I've seen enough wars I protested against the Vietnam war and we still lost 50, 000 troops. and in the end it was in vain. This war I have a name for this (war) I call it the war of lies because the leaders of both sides are lying. Yes we need to get rid of Saddam, but who will replace him and how long will it take before he has to be removed. Some of you said that we need to send energy of love and healing, to both sides. This war will not end soon I fear it is a horrible one. but we have to support our troops so that those who fell did not die for nothing.
Thankx
Gunshythirdeye


Still Convinced... Apr 1st. at 6:58:23 am UTC

chip (tn) Age: 32 - Email


that this war is a complete and total abomination....there is NO liberating effort at work here....if there were, we would have bombed africa decades ago for circumsisng their women...if so, we would have bombed and invaded china decades ago for killing their female children...in fact, china supports child labor...do we go after them and demand regime change? no, instead we support their economy fully by purchasing every item in our retail stores from them....this is a tragedy...i do not support the troops, and i do not support their leader....to support one, is to condone the entire operation...and all of this from a pro-life, born-again christian draft dodger! the nerve of this man...remember america, he works for us...he is our employee, and we can fire him, if we feel he's not doing the job he was hired for...i see no evidence of a leader...on the contrary i see a fascist power freak who will lead this world into deep sorrow and loss...i hope his god is a forgiving one...


Skeggi, The Morning News? Apr 1st. at 9:09:14 am UTC

MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) Age: 39 - Email


So that's where you got your info. Sorry Skeggi, no offense, but....

Has anyone figured out which news source has the least bias to it? I'm gonna believe N.Z. news like I'm gonna believe USA's. With a grain of salt.

I doubt any of us will ever know the true figures. One innocent is too many. But even the Iraqi people know & accept the price of getting saddam & sons out.. I'm holding my opinions until this is over and the people of Iraq are not afraid to say what they really think for fear of getting killed or tortured by saddam.

Remember please that we are dealing with a madman that will drop bombs on his people and blame it on us, use cowardly methods (false surrender, military dressing in civilian clothes, using innocent children & women as protection, etc) to keep his grip on his Country. A real man and excellent leader isn't he. I'll take our President over him ANY day of the week. We can vote ours out (?! another rant) . The Iraqi's cannot.

Sorry, but I'm not going to believe anything coming out of a Country that isn't even there fighting and thinks it can report what's going on fairly w/out anti-war bias. Nor should anyone else.

I just wish I knew who was telling the most truths.

I figure it's somewhere in the middle of all that I read.

I pray for the troops and the innocent Iraqi people. This situation truly sucks.

In Peace & Tolerance..

MoonOwl


Alright Then, Answer This.... Apr 1st. at 10:35:47 am UTC

elf (england (not proud of it though)) Age: 23 - Email


If this war is about liberating the Iraqi people...

a. Why are the US using bombs containing depleted uranium which means that 50% of the population of some cities are expected to develop cancer within the next 10 years?

b. Why are they bombing water supplies, food stores and farms?

c. Why are the US planning to give control of the port of Um-Kasr to a major US company who Bush has been friendly with for a number of years?

Come on guys, it just doesn't quite add up does it. Your country is being run by a bunch of gangsters and your media is telling you a load of lies.
For some info from a perspective other than Bush's, have a look at www.zmag.org www.aljazeerah.info or your regional indymedia.


War To Bring Peace? Apr 1st. at 10:49:40 am UTC

wendella (kenosha, wi) Age: 38 - Email


How can violence against violence bring about peace? I have heard from media (radio) folks say that those of us against the war are for the killing of innocent lives and not peace. Peace is found within each and every one of us. If we cannot find that peace within, there will never be true peace in the world. Until all human beings find true peace within themselves, there will always be violence and war. Until people realize that the material things and money are less important than life, we will never find true peace or happiness in the world.

I am former military (so, naturally I will support our troops no matter what, but not agree with why they are there - its called compromise) . When I joined the military it was to instill some discipline in me which I lacked and to earn money to go to college since my family could not pay for me to go. I served during the Gulf War. I had a different mind set then also. My mind was clouded by MAN's thought processes and not my own. I am now a feminist, I still love men, but they need to change their ways of thinking or it will be to the demize of us all.

Sometimes I think though that this may be the God/dess's plan by influencing man's thought and eliminate some of the population on this planet. I know if I were her and have been treated the way she has as long as she has, I would want to clean house also. Be Gone you foul and filthy creatures?

Wendella


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