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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 19,164,218  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 28

Lurker/Post Ratio: 1170 to 1

Question of the Week: 72 - 12/24/2001

Is 'Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men' Possible?

Is a workable 'peace on earth' just wishful or spiritual thinking or is it really possible? What would it take to achieve such a goal? Is it even a 'good' thing to attempt to bring about? How are your personal levels of tolerance tested in this world and how well do you think that you respond when someone demonstrates an attitude of intolerance towards you? Where do you draw the line and finally say, "No more!" What do you think about the current and future state of the laws that define 'legal' tolerance? Will they hold up over the years? Do you think that we are making progress as Pagans and as human towards a universal set of human rights guidelines? Should we even go there at all? What role does religion or spirituality- for better or for worse- play in the arena of religious and civil rights and/or the quest for peace?

 Reponses:   There are 28 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

This Is Where I "draw The Line.." An Open Letter To Ruby... Dec 19th. at 9:22:07 pm EST

little red man with pitchfork (yourtown, Pennsylvania US) Age: 86 - Email

This is where I "draw the line.."


Since You seem to have nothing better to do than monitor this website, monitor this--It's your kind of feeble-minded, fanatic, fundamentalism that We've been fighting in Afghanistan. Do bin Laden and Taliban ring a bell? Because You're more like them than your weak little minds know. Your obvious psychotic ramblings are pathetic. This is the kindest thing I can say to You - SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP IMMEDIATELY. Oh and, one other little bit of friendly advice: "for anybody will wrench your beautiful neck with hatred for all eternity..."? Sounds like a not-so-cleverly veiled threat to me. Over the Internet, no less. Not too bright at all. Some might even call it inciting a hate crime. I bet You also send this kind of terroristic filth to women's clinics as well. Just like Waagner did. But he was caught too wasn't he losers? Let's just say if any harm should come to Wren's neck (which You have a creepy obsession with) or any other part of her, I and thousands of others will know where the authorities should look first.

That Depends On Your Definition Of Peace. If You Mean No War... Dec 19th. at 10:01:11 pm EST

Drekfletch (Wolfeboro, New Hampshire US) Age: 19 - Email

That depends on your definition of peace. If you mean no war, then it is possible. But like all change, it will cost us. It will cost us the hardship of accepting absolute knowledge. I have a book, _The Light of Other Days_ by Arthur C. Clarke, that tells of how a technology is developed that can reach anywhere back into time (including the present) anywhere in space. As this technology spreads, it virtually eliminates all possibility of crime, unpunished violence, holding secrets, telling lies. And as this unadultered truth pounds at mankind, the face of society changes.

But, if you mean where all are content, then it is a definite NO. We, as a race, have discontent in our genes. It gives us the incentive to grow, to evolve. To resonate with Amaranth's idea, we need something to strive for. I found an ad in the paper once that said: "If you want something done...dangle the undoable in front of the world. Then, consider it done." It continues on telling many things done that were "impossible." If anyone wants to read it, I still have a copy I can e-mail.

As for me personaly, I dread the time when we get to the level of "eternal" peace. I am afraid of what we will evolve to next.


No. As Long As Humans Are Not All Brainwashed, We Will Always... Dec 19th. at 10:06:08 pm EST

9;2;2 (Derby, Kansas US) Age: 17 - Email

No. As long as humans are not all brainwashed, we will always find something to fight about. There can be no order without chaos, they are in a fluctuating and constant balance and imbalance with each other.

Order without chaos is absurd. It is a fantasy where people only see the beauty of order, and not the ugly side. The ugly side of order is oppression. If you have no idea why I think order can be bad, read up on Benito Mussolini, Ferdinand Marcos, Augusto Pinochet, Jean Bedel Bokassa, Nicolae Ceausescu, Mao Zedong, and all of those fun people. If I recall correctly, Mussolini and Hitler were sort of butt-buddies in the political way, with Mussolini establishing himself as a fascist dictator of Italy after collapsing all political enemies around him. Order is corrupting, but so is chaos.

Hmm... some people on the chaotic side...
Osama bin Laden (of course), Earth Liberation, and most extremist animal-rights activists who fire-bomb hunting ranges.

Peace is governed by order. Peace does not last forever, it will eventually be followed by adversity. Think about the Earth herself: she may seem still, but she is in constant movement. During peace, there is little growth. Peace is more of a nap-time for humanity, and chaos is when we wake up.

So, no, there will never be peace on Earth until every last life-form dies and Earth becomes a static mudball. There are always little pockets of peace, but not in totality.

A quote to keep in mind.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely."
Lord Acton

It Is Very Hard If Not Out Right Impossible To Imagine Peace... Dec 21st. at 12:48:29 am EST

Brianna (La Mesa, California US) Age: 19 - Email

It is very hard if not out right impossible to imagine peace on earth. I think that over the years we sa people are making more and more progress with explaining what paganism is and isnt while at the same time stepping out and making ourselves heard.

The Reason I say that peace on earth is an almost impossiblty is because every single person has a differant view of what is peaceful and what is not. I hope that I am wrong and that in time silly little differances like race and religon will be overlooked. However look at things that are happening now in today's world. Some pagans are being taunted for celibrating and worshipping a differant path than the majority while in other places it is agenst the law to practice a differant faith from the majority.

I hope to the Goddess that I am wrong and that some day in the future our children will be able overlook the small differances and be friends and kin to each other while being tolerant of their friend and kins religon and personal beliefs.

Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Log On To The... Dec 21st. at 9:17:38 am EST

Amaranth (Cape Canaveral, Florida US) Age: 34 - Email

Just when you thought it was safe to log on to the Perspectives Page, I have to go and think again! Sorry, guys -- I usually try to get it together a little more than this, but this is just a fascinating topic for me.

The good news is that I'm relaying my husband's thoughts here, with his permission. He is very interested in magickal theory, and seems to have an innate understanding of many things I struggle to understand. His viewpoint is that our opinions and expectations mold the world we see around us: our perceptions create the universe we live in. Therefore, if you imagine and expect a world where peace is possible, it becomes more possible, and that part of the world closest to you actually reflects your expectation; if you imagine a bleak and hostile environment, your world actually becomes more bleak and hostile.

This is actually borne out by recent experiments in physics where observers were asked to predict the behavior of subatomic particles, and then told to check their expectations by observation. The observers saw a better-than-chance occurrence of whatever they expected, no matter how much "expectations" varied from observer to observer. (I'll try to find the academic cite if anyone requests it.)

Looked at from this vantage point, our every thought is a magickal act, in that it alters the actual fabric of universal events around us. If we allow the acts of ben Ladin and small-minded people like those who tortured JourneyWalker's friend and Joe and Ruby (Catholic) (I didn't have the heart to tell the good Catholic people I know about this) to change our perception of humanity and the world for the worse, we are lending their thoughts power, granting them magickal strength they would not otherwise have had. If instead we view them through a set of beliefs based on our magickal intent, we are not only changing the world for the better, but even, through tolerance and understanding, changing those we view for the better (it's a lot easier to place someone who's done a bad thing for an understandable reason into a peaceful mindset than it is a "bad" person). That doesn't mean not speaking out or fighting back, it means waiting to do so until we can act out of the purest motivations and with balanced goals.

I always assume that someone behaving badly is missing something essential to their survival or development. This makes it a lot easier to set up a dialog where one or both of us can learn something. It changes harm into a positive bond, and I know of no one who has enough of those.

My husband refuses to listen to anything bin Laden has to say, because he feels listening to him (bin L) gives him credibility he should not have at this point. As far as I'm concerned, bin Laden is out there somewhere, but no matter what he as one individual masterminds, the nature of humanity as a whole is still good and still capable of greater things than we have accomplished in the past - maybe even world peace, who knows? (I'll settle for no children fighting at the dinner table tonight, because that's my little world. :) )

Blessed Be, again!

I Hate To Say This, But I Highly Doubt That There Will... Dec 21st. at 3:21:54 pm EST

Awna (Beaumont, Texas US) Age: 18 - Email

I hate to say this, but I highly doubt that there will ever be peace on Earth OR good will toward men. It all ties in with polarity: good and bad, light and dark, up and down, right and wrong. Without chaos, what is order? Nothing. We can pray, spellcraft, and dance under the Moon all we want to, but unless people are willing to change, nothing will ever get done. Religion/spirituality/philosophy ties in with this greatly, but unless people accept a positive form of religion/spirituality/philosophy and actually follow it, it does no good. Realistically, the only people that we can really change are ourselves - the rest is up to Her.

Is Peace On Earth Possible? Certainly, But I Doubt It Will Occur... Dec 22nd. at 6:31:02 pm EST

Les Russell (Akron, Ohio US) Age: 44 - Email

Is Peace on Earth Possible?

Certainly, but I doubt it will occur while humans roam the earth. Entirely to much to compete for, argue about, and generally bitch about. How unfortunate. The below message from 'the catholics' is an outstanding example of this kind of thinking.

Dear Wren Walker,

"LUCIFER"...will WRENCH your beautiful neck with Hatred for all Eternity, if you finally choose to be his forever. Wren Walker, consider carefully the Eternal Torture of Trillion and Trillion centuries to be repeated again and again forever. What is it that you are afraid most (sic)? Now imagine that this most fearful pain of yours will be done to you again and again
Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion times again and again forever. ..Kick out all your Sins and return to God. We have seen your picture and e-mail address in the withches (sic) vox.

Love in Christ from Ruby and Joe (Catholics)


A couple things catch my eye in the above rant.

1. The Lucifer comment seems more like the threat of the boogie man, ideal for terrorizing children into brushing their teeth before bedtime than anything else.

2. Your worst fear? Probably having to share living space with "Ruby and Joe (Catholics)" for all eternity. I shiver just thinking about it.

3. Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion-Trillion- Trillion-Trillion times again and again forever" Seems kind of redundant. How many zeros is that, anyway??

4. "Love in Christ" With love like this, who needs enemies!

On the other hand, at least the catholics are writing, and not flying planes into buildings.

Perhaps Peace on Earth will be more likely if the media didn't take so much joy in reporting it, and the attorneys (and law makers) didn't have so much fun drawing lines in the sand.

In any case, let's take it one person at a time. Remember, a regular person is a happy person.

Les R

Peace And Good Will, Try Being A Bicyclist. Out Enjoying Nature As... Dec 22nd. at 9:55:48 pm EST

Victor Meek (Hallsville, Missouri US) Age: 41 - Email

Peace and good will, Try being a bicyclist. Out enjoying nature as you ride to have cigarette throwen your way, people swinging fishing poles at you as they pass, and drinks flung on you because you slow them down for a few seconds. Don't ride on Sunday 20 minutes before church or after, be a shame to get to church 2 minutes early or to be slowed down getting away from there. In fareness there is a church that their parishners don't act that, but in general WELL. Looking into these earth based beliefs, some of their ways fit the way I feel.

Thanks for my chance to sound off.

I Believe That Peace On Earth And Good Will Twards Men (and... Dec 27th. at 10:04:38 pm EST

Phoenix (Emerado, North Dakota US) Age: 21 - Email

I believe that peace on earth and good will twards men (and women) is not really possible. It is ideal, but as long as people keep being individuals, it is not possible. There are too many people out there with differences and the thoughts that they are right. People will always be different and have different thoughts. The same thing that makes this world so great, is the same thing that makes it terrible.

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