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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,881,418  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


In The Gray... Sort Of. Apr 1st. at 3:51:22 pm UTC

Jason Dass (Milwaukie, OR) Age: 22 - Email


The war probably wasn't the wisest choice that could've been made, but the way I figure it, it's not the worst. The guy's a heartless bastard. If someone can roast him alive, the better off we all are. Saddam, that is. I don't much appreciate "the education president, " seeing as how I live in Oregon. But Saddam is a traditional arab coming up on 70 years old. He won't step down, and he won't dismantle his weapons. What would you prefer we do? Wait until he has the capability to strike at us? I wouldn't.

-Jason


Just More Determined Apr 1st. at 3:57:00 pm UTC

Billy (florida) Age: 28 - Email


Watching Iraq call for terrorist acts, torture and execute American POW's, and kill their own people only reinforces the need to remove this evil from the world. They still propagate lies, and show executed POW's on arab TV. They are violating international law as a matter of principle. The Iraqi government has no regard for human life, especially the Iraqi people. With every heinous act my resolve grows stronger.


Granny's Prayer... Apr 1st. at 4:13:52 pm UTC

wendella (kenosha, wi) Age: 38 - Email


Granny.....thank you for the beautiful prayer you posted in this forum. It shines a light on the dark path we are on. I copied to read over and over again. Very inspirational!

Blessed Be to you and all!

Wendella


Fairs Fair.. Apr 1st. at 5:03:23 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Understood. Thanks for letting me.


I Am Still For It Apr 1st. at 6:14:48 pm UTC

Nokomis (OK) Age: 25 - Email


We did that country a grave diservice by leaving Saddam over there and in power after the first Gulf war.

We left those people in danger. Both Saddam and his family and republican guards regularly kidnap, beat, torture, starve, rape and kill their people. Food sent over there to feed that countries citizens is used to pay for expansive palaces for Saddam to hide out in. He lives in luxery while his people starve.

He claims to be a Muslim, yet encourages terror acts and the rape of women. These are not the actions of a spiritually minded man. Saddam is a cancer and he needs to be removed.

If we were there for control of the oil, why didn't we take any of it in the first conflict there?

If anyone is in this for the oil, its the French, they've been cutting deals with Iraq for ages now to get cheap oil. They've gone on record as saying they "might" help the US IF Iraq uses biological weapons against us. MIGHT! Anti-war protesters in France smashed the windows of a local McDonalds while innocent people were eating. The workers there and the dinning patrons had to be protected by Police. How peaceful is that? Attacking a privately, not to mention locally owned business in the name of Peace? What's next? Are they going to start shooting people for drinking cokes in the street?

Its rediculous!

I don't really care for Bush, I think he's got horrible policy on the environment and that he caters too much to big business. However I feel this war effort is a good thing if it will mean the Iraqi people will be free of Suddam's tyrany.

I'm not saying our country doesn't make mistakes either, but we need to remember that by the worlds standards our country is still relatively young. Because of how our country was created we have a strong love of the underdog. However, that doesn't always come with a large measure of common sense. We shouldn't have supported him to begin with no matter if we needed his help against Iran or not, but we did. We now have the opportunity to correct past mistakes, and I believe that is what we are doing.

Thinking that this war is needed does not make me a war monger. Saying that I hope Kali dances on his corpse doesn't either. The man is an infected hair in the middle of a boil on the butt of humanity. A thick dark hair, crusted by pus. The world will be better off when his regime is ended.


Colin Powell Paraphrase & Personal Opinion Apr 1st. at 7:41:36 pm UTC

PepperoftheEarth (Austin, TX) Age: 99 - Email


(The following paraphrase captures the spirit of the real event. The much longer original version is available online.)

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by a former Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying that, "Over the past 100 years, the United States has sent many of its fine youngmen and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return." It became very quiet in the room.

It isn't
... the land. Iraq is only about the size of California and we are long past our days of nation expansion.

... the oil. Hussein would have been delighted to sell us the oil cheaply. And, the future Iraq government might decide to charge us more to help rebuild their country.

It is
... chemical weapons that we know he has because he has used them. And, his missile construction capability is very competent.

... the largest land army in the Middle East with a supreme commander that believes he and his line will reestablish the old Persian Empire.

... wholesale rape, murder, and torture of civilians.

... genocide of the Kurds.

In World War II -- Jews, Gypsies, Christian priests who wouldn't go along, members of magical lodges, and many others died horrendous deaths in concentration camps. Some died quickly and others spent years being tortured in experiments, vivisections, flayed resulting in human skin lamp shades, and more. Yet, there were those who said, "that is an internal affair" or "none of our business" even though they knew what was going on.

If we fail to act when we can, we are guilty of the "sins of the witness." Or, to steal back an old pagan/I Chingish saying from some spiritual plagiarists, "There is a time for war, and there is a time for peace." When does it stop? When all men and women are free.


Terrorism? Apr 1st. at 7:58:42 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


Fighting in defence of your country against and invader, by any means can not be terrorism.
How else could these people fight.
Skeggi


Doing What Is Right... Apr 1st. at 8:03:09 pm UTC

MoonDance (San Francisco, CA) Age: 35 - Email - Web


I don’t believe in rushing into battle, but neither do I believe in peace at all costs. There are times that you have to stand up for what is right and take action. In those times, I believe in the strategy taught in Art of War and most martial arts: wait until you have the best advantage, then do what has to be done quickly and efficiently, and with as little suffering and lost of life as is possible.

I am glad that we finally are giving the people of Iraqi the opportunity to find freedom from tyranny. I think Saddam Hussein should have been removed before we ended the Gulf War, hope that we can get the job done this time around.

However, I do NOT agree with the manner in which Bush bullied the United Nations and steamrolled over the feelings of our friends and allies in moving so quickly to war. I wonder if this is a reflection of Bush’s hidden feelings of inadequacy and his underlying need to show the world that he can do what his own father could not.

I am also very concerned that Bush is using this war for his own motives, and moving dangerously toward to becoming one of the dictators that he has been speaking out against. He is using the fears and hurt generated by September 11 in order to allow him to legislate his own objectives, both by taking away civil liberties in the name of national security, and by distracting us with the war while our other rights are slowly chipped away as he takes every opportunity to fulfill his campaign promise of legislating his own conservative Christian beliefs upon the entire country.

I did not agree at all with how this war started, and I fear that America will someday have a price to pay for Bush’s harsh actions. However, now that we are there, I support our troops, who are doing their duty and seeking to free, protect and even feed the innocents in the harsh face of a country whose own soldiers have shown us that they have no honor. I send out intentions and magick for a swift and clean end to the war, and protection for our soldiers, and for all the innocents on both sides.

Blessed Be!

Lady MoonDance


This Is Wrong Apr 1st. at 10:35:47 pm UTC

Ryan (Miami) Age: 20 - Email


I very rarely state that anything is wrong or evil as I believe deeply that these terms are relative. THis is one of those exceptions. This war is wrong. Every last reason stated in favor of this war is a perversion of the truth. There is no proof.

How anyone can consider a video tape of an un-manned aircraft in flight to be proof of anything more than an un-manned aircraft in flight escapes me. It also escapes me that even though it is no secret , it has been conveniently forgotten that the US was responsible for placing Saddam in power. It escapes me just as much how everyone else seems to not notice remarkabley how coincidential it is that one of the first groups of targets we secured upon entering Iraq were it's oil fields. It troubles me that almost no one seems to have noticed that upon this war beginning our intentions magically changed from eliminating a potential threat into rebuilding Iraq with a US friendly goverment. IT escapes me how no one else seems to recall that the Bush family began their prosperity in the oil industry and are large stock holders of many US based oil corporations. IT troubles me to see that no one realizes that a reconstructed Iraq will allow US corporations to move in immediately into ownership positions of Iraqi oil fields thus increasing their own worth, and supplying a large profit to it's stock holders, including the Bush family.

It troubles me greatly to realize the amount of corruption required in our goverment to allow Bush to make such large decisions with the prime motive being greed. IT troubles me further to see the cowardice that exists within the UN, for them no to rush to the aid of Iraq. Undoubtedly, if the country had been any other agressor except the US, the UN would have intervened with force immediately.

IT saddens me, that an enitre nation of people have allowed the greed of a few to cost them their children in battle. THe causualties in this war will be as numerous as in Vietnam. It causes me great deal of grief when I realize the numerous casualties that will be suffered on both sides are pointless, that their sacrifice is in vein; that this war is wrong and should never have occured.


Are We Invincible Apr 1st. at 10:58:27 pm UTC

Ryan (Miami, Florida) Age: 20 - Email


AFter reading about how the expressed opinions about Saddam on this post where I believe I actually read a post stating that he has horns and drinks the blood of infants (sarcasm) .

I have to ask, do we think we are the exception? WE do realize that other countries are the victims of propaganda by their goverment. Do we think that because we are a so-called democracy that we are invulnerable to propaganda?

I hear many statements about Iraq's cowardice and dishonor because they are relying heavily on guerilla tactics. Are we some how less cowardly when we bomb them until nothing is left but a crater before we even dare to send in our own forces?


Quite Honestly... Apr 1st. at 11:33:04 pm UTC

Heather Dunbar (Florida) Age: 18 - Email


Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war? Do you think that anti-war protests should cease?

-No, I don't agree with the war on Iraq. I didn't before hand and I don't now, but I also realize that if we were to stop fighting now it'd be incredibly detrimental. I don't think people should stop protesting if they really believe that it's the right thing to do, but...I think pulling out now...would be pointless. It'd only make matters worse.

Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

-I don't happen to think that a greater divide has opened between those of differeng views, but I also live in the south. I know many wouldn't consider Florida southern, but if any of y'all have been to North Florida you realize it might as well be Georgia. There's always been a large divide in peoples views in the small town I live in. You're either very right wing or very left wing. Maybe there has been a sudden split, but I've not seen it because a wide gap has always been evident here.

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time?

-In no way, shape, or form do I ever think that suspension of civil liberties is okay. I don't care if it's for security reasons, it's not right under any circumstances.

Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

-I feel exactly the same as I did before, and before hand I didn't feel all that safe, but not because of terrorism. The President...scares me. I know that sounds rather childish but he does. If he's not trying to destroy the environment, he's appointing doctors who mix religion with medicine to the FDA's reproductive health committee.

As for the security of the world...I don't think much will change except people will be more suspicious of America, at least for awhile. I mean, how much of the world protested against us starting this war? How many people here in America protested? I know I did and a large group of others here as well. We're supposed to be a democracy (okay okay we're really only a republic.) and we can't even get the president to listen to us. I live here and that kinda makes me suspicious. Link to More info related to this post -- HERE


Nope, Don't Think So Apr 2nd. at 4:47:33 am UTC

BrightStar (Oklahoma City, OK) Age: 42 - Email


Hi!
Nope, I haven't changed my position on the war.I still believe it's the wrong thing.I'm afraid it will get much worse.
Nope, I don't think the anti war protests should cease.If we're really about freedom, then opposition groups should be able to voice their dissent.
Is there a greater divide, ideology wise?
I don't know.Here in Oklahoma, it's pretty right wing Christian coalition territory.Maybe they hate liberal/progressives/non Christians more than they used to.But they used to hate them quite fiercely!
No!I do not think Civil liberties should be suppressed, ever!If we really are freedom loving people, then we shouldn't stop what we stand for.
Nope!I don't feel any safer.I was born in 1960, and most of my life I was a bit afraid of nuclear destruction.Now we have terrorism.I guess I'm jaded, or just used to the idea that the actions of my government may get me killed.
Nope!The world will not be safer.Those who oppose us, and especially Islamic opponents, will resort to more and more terror against the USA because of it.In fact, other peoples may become more sympathetic to those who oppose us.
The thing that concerns me.That kind of freaks me out.Is this idea of Pre Emptive Self Defense, this new doctrine by the Bush administration.It's, dare I say, un American to me.The idea that if we think you might do something to us, we have a right to invade your country and make it an American style democracy, is really bizarre.The only thing I can compare it to, is what Hitler did on behalf of the Germanic peoples of Europe.Invading Austria, Czechoslavokia, and Poland under the guise of liberating oppressed German peoples.A pre emptive first strike against the Jewish democracies who oppressed Germans everywhere.That's the justification he used.That's the only thing close to what we're doing I can find.
Although, an example on a smaller scale.It's like, if I have a neighbor, and I know he shot my cat.I know he has guns.I heard he once did something nasty to a child.And I think he just might shoot me one day.So, I call the cops.They find no guns.They do nothing, those crummy cops with their Constitution.Well, I know how crafty this guy is, so I just go over and kill him.That's kinds of what it seems like.
But that's just my opinion!I could be wrong, and have been before!
Peace and Love
BrightStar


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