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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 8,541,522  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 233

Lurker/Post Ratio: 140 to 1

Question of the Week: 1 - 8/7/2000

Who are you going to vote for and why?

Which political platform or candidate are you leaning towards? Do you think that a level of political involvement is important to pagans? Are you registered to vote, will you vote and who -if you don't mind telling the world- are you planning to vote for (or against)?

 Reponses:   There are 233 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Harry Browne Or Ralph Nader.... It May Be A Toss-up, Though. Browne... Aug 14th. at 9:06:44 pm EDT

SteeleWhite WolfeMoone (Indianapolis, Indiana US) Age: 32 - Email


Harry Browne or Ralph Nader....

It may be a toss-up, though. Browne seems a more low-government type (+), though less environmental than Nader (-). Also, ever since I was a kid, Nader has been a thorn in people's sides (+). He just has too much of a name recognition to get rid of him. I do want my 2nd Ammendment rights to use a gun (+ to both), and I'm sure not voting for an anti-Pagan, pro-Confederate-flag Bush.

Some people below have posted about Tipper Gore-baby and her stupid PMRC. That was the biggest flop censorship has ever had. The "Explicit Lyrics" labels have actually _boosted_ the sales of Manson and other raunchier groups. (Hey, I like Goth, and even MM's "Rock is Dead" off "The Matrix", but "Smells like Children" is trash, idiocy, and the like. I haven't bought another MM album since.)

I've been in checkout line at Best Buy once behind a kid who lied out of his teeth when his grannie asked, "Is that X-rated?" I had seen the CD 5 minutes previous, and its "label" was cleverly concealed from all but the kids and the "Libs". I also have one album that carried the label outside the wrapper, but had no XXX-y lyrics on the inside. Wasn't that a con-job?

At the same time as the record labels, PMRC was pushing for labels on the Role Playing Games. GAMA fought them, and won. I'm sorry, we're still looked on as geeks, and the Hobby has not grown overall. There is stuff in the Vampire books, esp. "Montreal by Night", that makes me wanna throw up. I'm sure a warning label would have bumped its sales up a few notches, too.

To summarize the Gore-y details: Why vote for a Prez whose wife's anti-free-press laws backfire? I'm sure not.

And voting for the least evil? That's like voting for Stalin because he might be nicer than Hitler. Or even voting for McCarthy because he was anti-Stalin...


I Am Definately Voting For Gore. He Is The Best Chance That... Aug 14th. at 10:49:32 pm EDT

Tom (Augusta, Maine US) Age: 22


I am definately voting for Gore. He is the best chance that we have to keep church and state seperate. This is a very important issue considering Bush does not consider Wicca as a religion. Gore may not be a dream candidate but he is the best out there and a vote not for Gore is really just a vote for Bush. Keep this in mind.


I Think Everyone Here Is Pretty Much In Agreement That A Vote... Aug 14th. at 11:49:14 pm EDT

Dan Murphy (Amityville , New York US) Age: 42 - Email


I think everyone here is pretty much in agreement that a vote for George Jr. would swing the political pendulum far enough to the right that the likes of people like David Duke will start crawling out from under the rocks.

In my opinion, the Green Party is still taking baby steps and not quite ready for the national spotlight in the Oval office. They have some good planks in their platform which the Democrats could embrace. The Greens also have some planks that need re-working, namely the maximum wage plank. One only needs to look at Eastern Bloc nations to see that if you take the incentive out of working hard and profiting from it, things will stagnate in a hurry.

The Lieberman choice by Gore is strategically sound. To win this election, the two major parties must position themselves in the middle and take those votes. Both Gore and Lieberman are pro-environment, which is becoming a major issue, even in the mainstream. Any self respecting Pagan/Wiccan would be quick to check the voting record of any candidate on this issue. Some have mentioned in this forum that they felt that Lieberman is for censorship. He has wanted to clean up the product(?) coming out of Hollywood, but he has voted consistantly pro-arts.

So, who to vote for... I think the best strategy is to vote the Gore/Lieberman ticket and vote Green on the local elections, if there are any candidates. That way you build a bottom up party and once it gains it's political legs, it will be in familiar territory. There's no substitute for experience.

Blessed Be to All,


In My Opinion, Our Politial System Is Just As Much A Farse... Aug 15th. at 1:27:53 am EDT

Southern Charmer (Sumter, South Carolina US) Age: 22


In my opinion, our politial system is just as much a farse as our judiciary or penal systems. I vote only out of respect for the institution and those who died so that I may do so.

Pagans, in general should take the spirit and fire (so common to our type) and use it to make true change. As our community grows, so too does our collective strength and buying power. Voting is a great tool.

I do not consider myself to be very politically aware, one of those people who knows a lot of little facts about the condidates. But I also am a registered voter and through my fraternity (Alpha Phi Alpha, Fraternity Inc.) I have helped hundreds of people become new voters. Everyone must do what they can.

In the end, I think most people consider the candidates and high ranking politicians to be almost another species of human. I just found out enough about each of them to know what kind of man they are. GW. is not the man. I'm voting for Gore.


It Is Very Important That Pagans Get Involved In Politics. For That... Aug 15th. at 11:05:58 am EDT

Rick (San Diego, California US) Age: 25 - Email


It is very important that pagans get involved in politics. For that matter it is important that everyone in this nations gets involved in politics. The polticians and big business knows that the average American does not pay much attention to the issues and what is going on in this country and the world. I'm a member of the Socialist Party USA and I will be voting for David McReynolds of the Socialist Party USA. It is time for the American people to take the power back from big business and global capitalist and bring it home to where it should be. IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE!

There is nothing democratic about how big business is influencing our political system. It is a shame to see how the American people have had the power removed from their hands and placed in the hands of a select few. As we all know in the current USA...Money talks and..well..everything else walks.

Blessed Be!


I Have Spent So Much Time On This Issue Lately. My Girlfriend... Aug 15th. at 11:38:09 am EDT

Morpheus (Auburn, Washington US) Age: 27 - Email


I have spent so much time on this issue lately. My girlfriend and I have both discussed the candidates and have made it pretty obvious on who we would not vote for... namely the Shrub. This man scares me more than any other candidate has since i have been able to vote.(which is the last three elections.)
Beyond the religious prejudice statements against Wiccans and more specifically the ones in the military (which up until last year I was), GW simply has a horrible record and platform for what he would do as our leader.

I can honestly say that there is not many things on his platform that i agree with. Almost nothing. I think he is wrong on everything from abortion to gun control to international affairs to gay rights to religion in schools to government reform.

To be perfectly honest, the thought has come to mind that my family might be better off moving to Canada if he is elected. I am that scared.

I don't feel that Gore is a strong enough candidate. He lacks one thing that would bring all his ideas together... like a personality. While I do agree with the majority of his views, I do not agree for all of them. He still holds out in saying that gay couples should be able to marry but they can be domestic partners... to me that is just plain chicken-sh*t. On top of that, his wife scares me almost as much as Bush does.

Someone posted that the Green Party still has not gotten their legs and that their platform needs work. This is all true. However, Ralph Nader does not follow the formal Green party platform, and they are the first to say so. Mr. Nader, in my opinion, is the most honest of the candidate and says exactly what is on his mind. I think that he has the right views to take up the leadership of this country, except for one thing...

Congress would fight him the whole way... nothing would pass, head and political agendas would clash.

But i will still vote for him. The opinion is that Nader just might be able to carry Washington state where i live. Personally i want to see that happen... if anything as a statement that the two party system of government is about to change. In the mean time, vote for anything other than the main two....start filling the ranks for our states and communities with alternative parties so when the time comes next time we have a Congress with more independents and Greens.

and that is all i have to say about that. :)


In My Opinion, The Libertarian Party Embodies The Ideals Of The Wiccan... Aug 15th. at 11:46:23 am EDT

David L. Vessell (Portland, Oregon US) Age: 32 - Email


In my opinion, the Libertarian Party embodies the ideals of the Wiccan Rede: 'If it harms none, do what you will.' This year I will be voting for Harry Browne for president, and I will vote for any other Libertarian candidates who manage to make the ballot.

The Libertarian Party requires, as a condition of membership, that all members agree to a statement of principles, that they 'do not advocate or endorse the initiation of force in order to achieve social or political goals'. They believe that the only legitimate purpose of government is to protect its citizens from force and fraud, otherwise they should be left alone.

No other political party rejects the use of force as an agent of change more than the Libertarians, and Wiccans and pagans should take note of that. No other political party is as devoted to the whole of the Constitution and Bill of Rights than the Libertarian Party. No other political party recognizes the importance of the individual.

Many Wiccans and pagans may point out that government force can be used to achieve "good". I dispute this. To paraphrase a Christian-oriented expression, if you give the government the power to enforce God's law, you also give it the power to enforce the Devil's. Only through voluntary associations can we achieve permanent solutions to the problems of modern society.

If you're not familiar with the Libertarian Party, I invite you to visit their web site at http://www.lp.org, or to e-mail me personally.


The Best Economy Ever, More Jobs Than Ever Before, Less People On... Aug 15th. at 12:40:39 pm EDT

Jennifer Malone (Costa Mesa, California US) Age: 28


The best economy ever, more jobs than ever before, less people on welfare, more kids in college than before, peace closer in Ireland and the middle East than ever before, a raise in the minimum wage that never would have happened with the Republicans ruling, the Family Medical Leave Act, creations of National Parks....and I'm sure I've left a lot out. Why would anyone want to go back to the sorry economy we had under a Republican President?

My complete unwavering support is for Al Gore. The only thing anyone can say against him is that he doesn't have the charisma of Bill Clinton. Well, the only person with the charisma of Bill Clinton is Elvis and he's not running for political office!

Al Gore is a good man, and will do this country proud!


I Don't Know If I Am Allowed To Respond To Other Postings... Aug 15th. at 12:50:32 pm EDT

Gary A. (Seattle, Washington US) Age: 27 - Email


I don't know if i am allowed to respond to other postings or not but I think that people need to be informed about the last statement.

Harry Browne, Libertarian candidate for President does not personifcate the Wiccan Rede in his beliefs. He does not support a woman's right to choose and thinks that abortion should be illegal. He does not support ALL person's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and does not support homosexual rights. He doesn't want to reform campaign finances and thinks individual contributions should be increased, leading the way to bribery and coersion through greed that has always been a problem in our political system. He also believes that the Department of Education should be abolished and no government money should go to schooling.

How does this follow the Rede? On one case he wants to take out educating and helping those to young to help themselves by cutting there schooling money but he wants to dictate what an individual can do with their own body and who they can choose to love and honor in their life?

While some of his views are comparable to other candidates, some of the other views his has would only contribute to the weaking of the United States as a whole... I am not for a world police force as our country sometimes acts as but at the same time i am not for weaking our country to the point where someone else comes in and removes my rights through dictatorship.

Some of the candidates may be scary, (ie Bush) but no matter what their views there are certain rights that they can not take away. Namely my right to practice what ever religion i choose, the right to raise my children the way i choose and the right to live the way i choose....as long as i do not infringe on anyone else's same right.

I really just don't think that Browne is that answer... i think that someone like Nader who wants to concentrate on making our government better not demolishing it completely, will get the job done...he's got my vote.


My Vote Will Be Going To Dr. John Hagelin. I Would Not... Aug 15th. at 5:06:42 pm EDT

Christine (Los Angeles, California US) Age: 25


My vote will be going to Dr. John Hagelin.

I would not feel right voting for either Bush or Gore. Bush is compassionless, stupid, hypocritical and bigoted. Gore is vastly preferable, but still wouldn't do anything to accomplish real change for the better. Although he styles himself as an environmentalist, he still accepts funding from the oil companies and tobacco companies he once pledged to fight.

Hagelin is a nuclear physicist who is against nuclear power and weapons. He promotes sustainable agriculture, and real environmentalism. He promotes social change and responsibility, compassion and caring, a platform which values the spiritual connection of all life without having a bias towards any one religion. He's a deeply intelligent man with a great deal of integrity.

If you haven't heard of him, since of course the press doesn't give him much coverage, check out http://hagelin.org


Quite Frankly I Am Frightened. George W. Bush Is One Of The... Aug 16th. at 11:40:50 am EDT

Edana (Thousand Oaks, California US) Age: 24 - Email


Quite frankly I am frightened. George W. Bush is one of the most narrow minded candidates we've had in a long time, and were he to be elected into office I would worry about not only religious freedoms, but women's rights as well. Not only through laws he could pass or block, but most importantly through his appointment of Supreme Court Justices, of which three are expected in the upcoming term.

I have been reading through these postings, and I see that many of us are considering voting for candidates from the Green party, the Libertarian party or the Reform party. These are all worthy candidates, but the sad truth of the matter is that none of these parties have yet built up enough notoriety or political clout to have a genuine chance at the Oval Office. Even if we could get all pagans to agree to pool our votes for just one of them the only effect it would have would be splitting the left wing vote and providing a consolidated vote for the radical right. In essence, getting the above-mentioned George W. elected.

I have been known to say "I would vote for a fish to keep George W. out of office." While the fish part is facetious, I am very serious about doing all I can to keep Bush out of office. I ask you all to examine the candidates once more, with particular thought to what we can realistically do to further our pagan values politically. Vote for the up and coming parties that you feel truly aligned with in your local elections. But when it comes to the presidency, I beg you to place your vote where it will have the most impact. My vote will go to Al Gore. Not only for the reasons mentioned above, but also because I believe he is a forthright and ethical person whose values are closely aligned with my own, especially regarding religious freedoms, women's rights, and environmentalism.

I hope to see you all at the polls on election day.


I'm Afraid To Say, I Really Know Nothing About Any Of The... Aug 16th. at 12:19:37 pm EDT

Moon (Houston, Texas US) Age: 38


I'm afraid to say, I really know nothing about any of the parties except for Gore & Bush. After reading through other's opinions, I will be taking a look at some of the website addresses that were posted for the other parties.

Yes, I will vote and most likely it will be Gore. I am neither Republican nor Democrat - I am my own. Unfortunately, even with the smaller parties running, our next President will probably be either Al Gore or George Bush and the obvious lesser of the two evils is Al Gore. Although I live in Texas, where Bush is now Governor, it will not make a difference in my opinion of him. Granted, our Texas schools have become the best in the nation. I'm not sure how much of this Bush had to do with it. One thing I do know, and my "womanly intuition", which is usually right on the mark, tells me that Bush is just downright horrid! I feel he says one thing but means another. One thing I DO KNOW, Bush is not the man for a country that is wanting to change and be a country that is . . . "for the people, by the people". Bush seems to think quite highly of the death penalty, even tho he may argue this, Texas has put more people to death than I have EVER heard of! Granted, true, some of them may have very well deserved the punishment they received, but they will get their just punishment some day. Trust me, the stories are true about our prisons! There are so many INNOCENT people in prison here that it is truly sad. So my opinion is that Gore will be the best person to vote for.


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