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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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2. How Do You Define Witch/WitchCraft? - [42]

1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]



















 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 8,525,072  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 233

Lurker/Post Ratio: 140 to 1

Question of the Week: 1 - 8/7/2000

Who are you going to vote for and why?

Which political platform or candidate are you leaning towards? Do you think that a level of political involvement is important to pagans? Are you registered to vote, will you vote and who -if you don't mind telling the world- are you planning to vote for (or against)?

 Reponses:   There are 233 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Have Spent So Much Time On This Issue Lately. My Girlfriend... Aug 15th. at 11:38:09 am EDT

Morpheus (Auburn, Washington US) Age: 27 - Email


I have spent so much time on this issue lately. My girlfriend and I have both discussed the candidates and have made it pretty obvious on who we would not vote for... namely the Shrub. This man scares me more than any other candidate has since i have been able to vote.(which is the last three elections.)
Beyond the religious prejudice statements against Wiccans and more specifically the ones in the military (which up until last year I was), GW simply has a horrible record and platform for what he would do as our leader.

I can honestly say that there is not many things on his platform that i agree with. Almost nothing. I think he is wrong on everything from abortion to gun control to international affairs to gay rights to religion in schools to government reform.

To be perfectly honest, the thought has come to mind that my family might be better off moving to Canada if he is elected. I am that scared.

I don't feel that Gore is a strong enough candidate. He lacks one thing that would bring all his ideas together... like a personality. While I do agree with the majority of his views, I do not agree for all of them. He still holds out in saying that gay couples should be able to marry but they can be domestic partners... to me that is just plain chicken-sh*t. On top of that, his wife scares me almost as much as Bush does.

Someone posted that the Green Party still has not gotten their legs and that their platform needs work. This is all true. However, Ralph Nader does not follow the formal Green party platform, and they are the first to say so. Mr. Nader, in my opinion, is the most honest of the candidate and says exactly what is on his mind. I think that he has the right views to take up the leadership of this country, except for one thing...

Congress would fight him the whole way... nothing would pass, head and political agendas would clash.

But i will still vote for him. The opinion is that Nader just might be able to carry Washington state where i live. Personally i want to see that happen... if anything as a statement that the two party system of government is about to change. In the mean time, vote for anything other than the main two....start filling the ranks for our states and communities with alternative parties so when the time comes next time we have a Congress with more independents and Greens.

and that is all i have to say about that. :)


In My Opinion, The Libertarian Party Embodies The Ideals Of The Wiccan... Aug 15th. at 11:46:23 am EDT

David L. Vessell (Portland, Oregon US) Age: 32 - Email


In my opinion, the Libertarian Party embodies the ideals of the Wiccan Rede: 'If it harms none, do what you will.' This year I will be voting for Harry Browne for president, and I will vote for any other Libertarian candidates who manage to make the ballot.

The Libertarian Party requires, as a condition of membership, that all members agree to a statement of principles, that they 'do not advocate or endorse the initiation of force in order to achieve social or political goals'. They believe that the only legitimate purpose of government is to protect its citizens from force and fraud, otherwise they should be left alone.

No other political party rejects the use of force as an agent of change more than the Libertarians, and Wiccans and pagans should take note of that. No other political party is as devoted to the whole of the Constitution and Bill of Rights than the Libertarian Party. No other political party recognizes the importance of the individual.

Many Wiccans and pagans may point out that government force can be used to achieve "good". I dispute this. To paraphrase a Christian-oriented expression, if you give the government the power to enforce God's law, you also give it the power to enforce the Devil's. Only through voluntary associations can we achieve permanent solutions to the problems of modern society.

If you're not familiar with the Libertarian Party, I invite you to visit their web site at http://www.lp.org, or to e-mail me personally.


The Best Economy Ever, More Jobs Than Ever Before, Less People On... Aug 15th. at 12:40:39 pm EDT

Jennifer Malone (Costa Mesa, California US) Age: 28


The best economy ever, more jobs than ever before, less people on welfare, more kids in college than before, peace closer in Ireland and the middle East than ever before, a raise in the minimum wage that never would have happened with the Republicans ruling, the Family Medical Leave Act, creations of National Parks....and I'm sure I've left a lot out. Why would anyone want to go back to the sorry economy we had under a Republican President?

My complete unwavering support is for Al Gore. The only thing anyone can say against him is that he doesn't have the charisma of Bill Clinton. Well, the only person with the charisma of Bill Clinton is Elvis and he's not running for political office!

Al Gore is a good man, and will do this country proud!


I Don't Know If I Am Allowed To Respond To Other Postings... Aug 15th. at 12:50:32 pm EDT

Gary A. (Seattle, Washington US) Age: 27 - Email


I don't know if i am allowed to respond to other postings or not but I think that people need to be informed about the last statement.

Harry Browne, Libertarian candidate for President does not personifcate the Wiccan Rede in his beliefs. He does not support a woman's right to choose and thinks that abortion should be illegal. He does not support ALL person's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and does not support homosexual rights. He doesn't want to reform campaign finances and thinks individual contributions should be increased, leading the way to bribery and coersion through greed that has always been a problem in our political system. He also believes that the Department of Education should be abolished and no government money should go to schooling.

How does this follow the Rede? On one case he wants to take out educating and helping those to young to help themselves by cutting there schooling money but he wants to dictate what an individual can do with their own body and who they can choose to love and honor in their life?

While some of his views are comparable to other candidates, some of the other views his has would only contribute to the weaking of the United States as a whole... I am not for a world police force as our country sometimes acts as but at the same time i am not for weaking our country to the point where someone else comes in and removes my rights through dictatorship.

Some of the candidates may be scary, (ie Bush) but no matter what their views there are certain rights that they can not take away. Namely my right to practice what ever religion i choose, the right to raise my children the way i choose and the right to live the way i choose....as long as i do not infringe on anyone else's same right.

I really just don't think that Browne is that answer... i think that someone like Nader who wants to concentrate on making our government better not demolishing it completely, will get the job done...he's got my vote.


My Vote Will Be Going To Dr. John Hagelin. I Would Not... Aug 15th. at 5:06:42 pm EDT

Christine (Los Angeles, California US) Age: 25


My vote will be going to Dr. John Hagelin.

I would not feel right voting for either Bush or Gore. Bush is compassionless, stupid, hypocritical and bigoted. Gore is vastly preferable, but still wouldn't do anything to accomplish real change for the better. Although he styles himself as an environmentalist, he still accepts funding from the oil companies and tobacco companies he once pledged to fight.

Hagelin is a nuclear physicist who is against nuclear power and weapons. He promotes sustainable agriculture, and real environmentalism. He promotes social change and responsibility, compassion and caring, a platform which values the spiritual connection of all life without having a bias towards any one religion. He's a deeply intelligent man with a great deal of integrity.

If you haven't heard of him, since of course the press doesn't give him much coverage, check out http://hagelin.org


Quite Frankly I Am Frightened. George W. Bush Is One Of The... Aug 16th. at 11:40:50 am EDT

Edana (Thousand Oaks, California US) Age: 24 - Email


Quite frankly I am frightened. George W. Bush is one of the most narrow minded candidates we've had in a long time, and were he to be elected into office I would worry about not only religious freedoms, but women's rights as well. Not only through laws he could pass or block, but most importantly through his appointment of Supreme Court Justices, of which three are expected in the upcoming term.

I have been reading through these postings, and I see that many of us are considering voting for candidates from the Green party, the Libertarian party or the Reform party. These are all worthy candidates, but the sad truth of the matter is that none of these parties have yet built up enough notoriety or political clout to have a genuine chance at the Oval Office. Even if we could get all pagans to agree to pool our votes for just one of them the only effect it would have would be splitting the left wing vote and providing a consolidated vote for the radical right. In essence, getting the above-mentioned George W. elected.

I have been known to say "I would vote for a fish to keep George W. out of office." While the fish part is facetious, I am very serious about doing all I can to keep Bush out of office. I ask you all to examine the candidates once more, with particular thought to what we can realistically do to further our pagan values politically. Vote for the up and coming parties that you feel truly aligned with in your local elections. But when it comes to the presidency, I beg you to place your vote where it will have the most impact. My vote will go to Al Gore. Not only for the reasons mentioned above, but also because I believe he is a forthright and ethical person whose values are closely aligned with my own, especially regarding religious freedoms, women's rights, and environmentalism.

I hope to see you all at the polls on election day.


I'm Afraid To Say, I Really Know Nothing About Any Of The... Aug 16th. at 12:19:37 pm EDT

Moon (Houston, Texas US) Age: 38


I'm afraid to say, I really know nothing about any of the parties except for Gore & Bush. After reading through other's opinions, I will be taking a look at some of the website addresses that were posted for the other parties.

Yes, I will vote and most likely it will be Gore. I am neither Republican nor Democrat - I am my own. Unfortunately, even with the smaller parties running, our next President will probably be either Al Gore or George Bush and the obvious lesser of the two evils is Al Gore. Although I live in Texas, where Bush is now Governor, it will not make a difference in my opinion of him. Granted, our Texas schools have become the best in the nation. I'm not sure how much of this Bush had to do with it. One thing I do know, and my "womanly intuition", which is usually right on the mark, tells me that Bush is just downright horrid! I feel he says one thing but means another. One thing I DO KNOW, Bush is not the man for a country that is wanting to change and be a country that is . . . "for the people, by the people". Bush seems to think quite highly of the death penalty, even tho he may argue this, Texas has put more people to death than I have EVER heard of! Granted, true, some of them may have very well deserved the punishment they received, but they will get their just punishment some day. Trust me, the stories are true about our prisons! There are so many INNOCENT people in prison here that it is truly sad. So my opinion is that Gore will be the best person to vote for.


IÕm Voting For Bush, For The Following Reasons. (and, Yes, IÕm Registered... Aug 16th. at 8:21:00 pm EDT

John (Not Stated) Age: 0 - Email


IÕm voting for Bush, for the following reasons.

(And, yes, IÕm registered to vote: as an independent. I wanted to vote for John McCain, but oh wellÉ)

1. I do not fear a loss of religious freedom. Yes, Gov. Bush may well nominate conservative judges for the Supreme Court and other federal courts.. But, I do not think such nominations, if approved by the Senate, would erode or endanger religious freedom in the United States -- including for pagans in America. Religious freedom is a basic element of the U.S. Constitution. For the last 200+ years (especially the last 60+ years), cases involving religious freedom have used objective measures (a creed, a code and a cultus) to determine whether a religion exists. If a court determines as an issue of fact that, by objective measures, a religion exists, the religion and its adherents must, as an issue of law, be covered by the freedom of religion. That is the law in America, regardless of whether the court or the general populace adheres or even likes the religion in question. See, for example, Church of Lukumi Bablu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah, 508 US 520 (1993) or Frazee v. Illinois Dept. Of Employment Security, 489 U.S. 829 (1989) or, especially, U.S. v. Ballard, 322 U.S. 78 (1944). These cases were determined by a Supreme Court whose membersÕ views have (over the years) covered the spectrum of jurisprudence, from conservative to liberal, and still the right of religious freedom has been vigorously upheld. So, unless the Supreme Court is willing to overturn this fundamental area of constitutional law, one that reaches back to the birth of the American nation, I am not concerned about erosion of religious liberties within the United States under a Bush administration or under his nominees for federal courts. Furthermore, in the last 2-3 years, the Republican Party as a whole (Bob Barr excepted) has backed away from its previous support of the theocratic leanings of fundamentalist Christians, and American fundamentalist Christians seem to have (overall) become resigned to "witnessing" in private rather than through political life. Thus, I do not fear erosion (actual or attempted) of religious freedom under a Republican
administration. Rather, I think education that is soberly and reasonably conducted is key for those who are apparently ignorant of the fact the Witchcraft and other forms of paganism truly are religions (such as Gov. Bush seemed to be when he made his unfortunate remark a year or so ago).

2. I think Gov. Bush would be a more capable president. Both Gov. Bush and Vice President Gore seem to have equal integrity, intelligence, and over-all background to qualify for the presidency. However, Gov. Bush has charisma; Vice President Gore does not. While charisma is not the only element composing leadership, it is a critical element in leadership within a democratic system of government -- in which people must be persuaded to go one way or another. Frankly, I think Gov. Bush possesses enough charisma to successfully persuade members of Congress and other persons and therefore to capably preside over the nation; equally frankly, I think Vice President Gore does *not* possess sufficient charisma, and I think he would therefore be an incapable or ineffective or otherwise politically weak president.

3. I tend to support the Republican Party as a practical expression of my libertarian views. While I sympathize with the goals and passions of the Democrats (and even the Greens), I generally think that solutions to problems, insuring freedom, and conducting life overall are better accomplished when government is *out* of peopleÕs lives to the extent that such is practicable, i.e. when government is *limited.* On the other hand, the Libertarian party cannot be expected to win (and, I wouldnÕt want them to win anyway: from the few Libertarians I have met, they strike me as being closet anarchists rather than supporters of *limited* government.) So, as a practical matter, I generally vote Republican.


I Haven't Made My Final Decision Yet, But I'm Definately Leaning Towards... Aug 16th. at 9:33:34 pm EDT

Fiona (Durham, North Carolina US) Age: 31


I haven't made my final decision yet, but I'm definately leaning towards either Nader or Browne. I have struggled for months with the idea of the "lesser of two evils" between Gore and Bush, but was afraid to "throw my vote away" on another candidate. But then, it occured to me....how will we ever break free from this faux two party system (like they're really all that different anymore) if we are all afraid to vote outside of it. None of the potential "Third Parties" will ever gain ground in such a manor if we don't support them. So, I have decided this year to vote for what I want in a leader, not against what I fear. My ultimate candidate may not win, but at least I'll know I truly did my part to make a difference.


Political Involvement Is Certainly Important For All People, But Most Especially For... Aug 16th. at 11:49:03 pm EDT

Jack McKnife (North Hollywood, California US) Age: 33 - Email


Political involvement is certainly important for all people, but most especially for a social minority like pagans: if you don't turn on to politics, politics will turn on you. While there isn't nearly as much difference between the two major candidates as there should be, there IS a difference. And since the next president will almost ceratinly appoint at least one Supreme Court Justice (and the court is one appointee from a conservative majority), this minor difference becomes paramount. The opinion that these appointments will not affect your freedom of religion are undercut (nay, rendered absurd!) by Bush statements that "witchcraft is not a religion." Therefore, in his publicly stated opinion, you have NO religious rights. You are NOT protected by the Constitution according to George W. Bush. Any pagan who votes for Bush is tantamount to a Jew voting for Hitler. But hey, at least under Hitler the trains ran on time, right?

For 33 years I've been a proud Texan, but now I'm not so sure. Out of 50 states, we're 49th in health care for women, 50th in health care for children, 50th in teacher salaries (including benefits), 48th in high school completion, 48th in spending for the Arts, 49th in spending for the environment, and the disgraceful list goes on. But hey, we're 1st in executions, 1st in greenhouse gas emissions, 1st in pollution from manufacturing, 1st in pollution from industries in violation of the Clean Air Act, 1st in expense of home insurance, and 1st in elderly people stripped of Medicaid insurance. And the disgraceful list goes on. Gee, can George bring his style of government to our whole country? For your sake, I hope not. If George runs this country like he ran any of the oil businesses he owned, we'll be bankrupt and sold off before his first term is over.

I can't in good conscience ask people to vote for Gore either, instead of a third party. In fact, if you live in Texas, I highly encourage it. A candidate losing his home state is so unlikely to happen that a vote for Gore in Texas is as much a throw away as any. Thanks a lot, founding fathers, for the electoral college system-- whoever wins the state gets every single electoral ballot, and those are the only ones that really count. If you live in Texas, vote third party and make a statement that you're pissed about the fact that now BOTH major parties are beholden to corporate America instead of just one party. Even a five percent turn out for a third party candidate sends a real message to DC. But in the 48 states where electoral ballots are truly at stake...

If your conscience forces you to vote third party, I beg you NOT to vote Libertarian. While their views translate nicely into keeping your religious (and other personal) freedoms intact, they also favor complete de-regulation and an unrestricted free market. That translates very quickly and easily into the full scale rape of Mother Earth. They will stay out of your life, and they will also stay out of the lives of every oil baron, mining conglomerate, lumber comapny, fishery, etc. that depends upon environmental destructuction for their livlihood. If, as pagans, you have ANY reverence at all for this planet, please research the full Libertarian platform and consider what it really means for Mother Earth.

Blessed Be,


I Have Read Many Of The Responses Here, And While I Can... Aug 17th. at 10:34:00 am EDT

Daven (mka Eric Landrum) (Nashville, Tennessee US) Age: 32 - Email


I have read many of the responses here, and while I can see some value in the Green Party candidate (and a good friend of mine is voting for Nader) someone pointed out that such a move would split the vote and put George W in the White House.

Someone else said the Gore would not be good because nothing would get done. What's wrong with that? We have had previously innefective candidates and presidents before, look at Ford for the Lady's sake. From thinking about this, it seems to me that with the quick turn over in the political arena for our supreme leader (i.e. the President) one should look at this:

If none of the candidates can do a good job through lack of courage, lack of allies, or just lack of spine, then we should at least pick a candidate that won't make the situation worse. In my oppinion, the only person for the job at this point is Gore.

Besides, I remember 8 years ago, when debates like this were croping up all over the place and when Clinton was elected, there were screams of dismay. I seem to remember some of the rude jokes going around as well, and the fact that the Military had to teach their Commander in Chief how to salute. However, he grew into the job, just like every President we have had, and by the end of his second term, he had accomplished much. Gays in the Military are allowed to stay there, a National Healthcare system was explored, and proposed multiple times, and many other little changes that have had a tremendous impact upon our daily lives.

If Gore can't continue that trend (and I think he can), I don't want to see Bush in a position to start undoing all that good work. Nader, and all the other candidates can't muster the support in the Congress to carry more than just a handful of minor changes, and our Foreign Policy would disintigrate with any of them in office. Gore seems the most acceceptable to me for keeping things as they are, until another charismatic candidate can come along and start the upward momentum again.


I Am Thoroughly Amazed At The Number Of Pagans Who Claim They... Aug 17th. at 11:46:07 am EDT

Chrystabella -"The Dark Orchid" (Cleveland, Ohio US) Age: 36 - Email


I am thoroughly amazed at the number of pagans who claim they are going to vote for a third party candidate or even worse, Governor Bush. Bush has stated that he doesn't consider pagan faiths "real religions" and let us not forget that a vote for Bush is not merely a vote for the candidate alone, but a tacit endorsement for that candidates party's political agenda. The Republican party for some strange reason seems to attract a number of small "L" libertarians and independents, but make no mistake...it is the "fundies"(right wing fundamentalists)who call the shots in that party when it comes down to deciding what direction the party will take regarding policy issues. Have we so soon forgotten Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga) speaking out against the freedom of worship rights of pagans in the military? How long do you believe any politician of any ideological persuasion would last in office if he or she made similar threats in the direction of Christian service personnel? Point blank, people...conservatives are our enemies. People who adhere to that political philosophy have been a scourge on the back of humanity since recorded history. It was people like those who were responsible for atrocities like the Spanish Inquisition, The Burning Times, Manifest Destiny, Jim Crow and the Holocaust. It is interesting to note that a pro Bush pagan took comfort in the fact that his freedoms of religion would be protected from right wing assault by the judicial interpretation of the Constitution and by legal precedent. I would ask that poster this question: Who does he think is going to appoint(and, in turn, confirm)the judges that will protect him? The answer would be akin to electing a fox to lead the hen house and then allowing that fox to appoint other members of his pack to safeguard the door. In light of this, in my opinion, the only viable choice for pagans of all persuasions can only be Al Gore and the Democratic Party. Third party candidates may be philosophically intriguing, but realistically they have no chance of winning and would only serve to place into power people(remember, not just a president)who have proven to be openly hostile to our interests.

Thank You


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