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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,441,045  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Doing What Is Right... Apr 1st. at 8:03:09 pm UTC

MoonDance (San Francisco, CA) Age: 35 - Email - Web


I don’t believe in rushing into battle, but neither do I believe in peace at all costs. There are times that you have to stand up for what is right and take action. In those times, I believe in the strategy taught in Art of War and most martial arts: wait until you have the best advantage, then do what has to be done quickly and efficiently, and with as little suffering and lost of life as is possible.

I am glad that we finally are giving the people of Iraqi the opportunity to find freedom from tyranny. I think Saddam Hussein should have been removed before we ended the Gulf War, hope that we can get the job done this time around.

However, I do NOT agree with the manner in which Bush bullied the United Nations and steamrolled over the feelings of our friends and allies in moving so quickly to war. I wonder if this is a reflection of Bush’s hidden feelings of inadequacy and his underlying need to show the world that he can do what his own father could not.

I am also very concerned that Bush is using this war for his own motives, and moving dangerously toward to becoming one of the dictators that he has been speaking out against. He is using the fears and hurt generated by September 11 in order to allow him to legislate his own objectives, both by taking away civil liberties in the name of national security, and by distracting us with the war while our other rights are slowly chipped away as he takes every opportunity to fulfill his campaign promise of legislating his own conservative Christian beliefs upon the entire country.

I did not agree at all with how this war started, and I fear that America will someday have a price to pay for Bush’s harsh actions. However, now that we are there, I support our troops, who are doing their duty and seeking to free, protect and even feed the innocents in the harsh face of a country whose own soldiers have shown us that they have no honor. I send out intentions and magick for a swift and clean end to the war, and protection for our soldiers, and for all the innocents on both sides.

Blessed Be!

Lady MoonDance


This Is Wrong Apr 1st. at 10:35:47 pm UTC

Ryan (Miami) Age: 20 - Email


I very rarely state that anything is wrong or evil as I believe deeply that these terms are relative. THis is one of those exceptions. This war is wrong. Every last reason stated in favor of this war is a perversion of the truth. There is no proof.

How anyone can consider a video tape of an un-manned aircraft in flight to be proof of anything more than an un-manned aircraft in flight escapes me. It also escapes me that even though it is no secret , it has been conveniently forgotten that the US was responsible for placing Saddam in power. It escapes me just as much how everyone else seems to not notice remarkabley how coincidential it is that one of the first groups of targets we secured upon entering Iraq were it's oil fields. It troubles me that almost no one seems to have noticed that upon this war beginning our intentions magically changed from eliminating a potential threat into rebuilding Iraq with a US friendly goverment. IT escapes me how no one else seems to recall that the Bush family began their prosperity in the oil industry and are large stock holders of many US based oil corporations. IT troubles me to see that no one realizes that a reconstructed Iraq will allow US corporations to move in immediately into ownership positions of Iraqi oil fields thus increasing their own worth, and supplying a large profit to it's stock holders, including the Bush family.

It troubles me greatly to realize the amount of corruption required in our goverment to allow Bush to make such large decisions with the prime motive being greed. IT troubles me further to see the cowardice that exists within the UN, for them no to rush to the aid of Iraq. Undoubtedly, if the country had been any other agressor except the US, the UN would have intervened with force immediately.

IT saddens me, that an enitre nation of people have allowed the greed of a few to cost them their children in battle. THe causualties in this war will be as numerous as in Vietnam. It causes me great deal of grief when I realize the numerous casualties that will be suffered on both sides are pointless, that their sacrifice is in vein; that this war is wrong and should never have occured.


Are We Invincible Apr 1st. at 10:58:27 pm UTC

Ryan (Miami, Florida) Age: 20 - Email


AFter reading about how the expressed opinions about Saddam on this post where I believe I actually read a post stating that he has horns and drinks the blood of infants (sarcasm) .

I have to ask, do we think we are the exception? WE do realize that other countries are the victims of propaganda by their goverment. Do we think that because we are a so-called democracy that we are invulnerable to propaganda?

I hear many statements about Iraq's cowardice and dishonor because they are relying heavily on guerilla tactics. Are we some how less cowardly when we bomb them until nothing is left but a crater before we even dare to send in our own forces?


Quite Honestly... Apr 1st. at 11:33:04 pm UTC

Heather Dunbar (Florida) Age: 18 - Email


Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war? Do you think that anti-war protests should cease?

-No, I don't agree with the war on Iraq. I didn't before hand and I don't now, but I also realize that if we were to stop fighting now it'd be incredibly detrimental. I don't think people should stop protesting if they really believe that it's the right thing to do, but...I think pulling out now...would be pointless. It'd only make matters worse.

Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

-I don't happen to think that a greater divide has opened between those of differeng views, but I also live in the south. I know many wouldn't consider Florida southern, but if any of y'all have been to North Florida you realize it might as well be Georgia. There's always been a large divide in peoples views in the small town I live in. You're either very right wing or very left wing. Maybe there has been a sudden split, but I've not seen it because a wide gap has always been evident here.

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time?

-In no way, shape, or form do I ever think that suspension of civil liberties is okay. I don't care if it's for security reasons, it's not right under any circumstances.

Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

-I feel exactly the same as I did before, and before hand I didn't feel all that safe, but not because of terrorism. The President...scares me. I know that sounds rather childish but he does. If he's not trying to destroy the environment, he's appointing doctors who mix religion with medicine to the FDA's reproductive health committee.

As for the security of the world...I don't think much will change except people will be more suspicious of America, at least for awhile. I mean, how much of the world protested against us starting this war? How many people here in America protested? I know I did and a large group of others here as well. We're supposed to be a democracy (okay okay we're really only a republic.) and we can't even get the president to listen to us. I live here and that kinda makes me suspicious. Link to More info related to this post -- HERE


Nope, Don't Think So Apr 2nd. at 4:47:33 am UTC

BrightStar (Oklahoma City, OK) Age: 42 - Email


Hi!
Nope, I haven't changed my position on the war.I still believe it's the wrong thing.I'm afraid it will get much worse.
Nope, I don't think the anti war protests should cease.If we're really about freedom, then opposition groups should be able to voice their dissent.
Is there a greater divide, ideology wise?
I don't know.Here in Oklahoma, it's pretty right wing Christian coalition territory.Maybe they hate liberal/progressives/non Christians more than they used to.But they used to hate them quite fiercely!
No!I do not think Civil liberties should be suppressed, ever!If we really are freedom loving people, then we shouldn't stop what we stand for.
Nope!I don't feel any safer.I was born in 1960, and most of my life I was a bit afraid of nuclear destruction.Now we have terrorism.I guess I'm jaded, or just used to the idea that the actions of my government may get me killed.
Nope!The world will not be safer.Those who oppose us, and especially Islamic opponents, will resort to more and more terror against the USA because of it.In fact, other peoples may become more sympathetic to those who oppose us.
The thing that concerns me.That kind of freaks me out.Is this idea of Pre Emptive Self Defense, this new doctrine by the Bush administration.It's, dare I say, un American to me.The idea that if we think you might do something to us, we have a right to invade your country and make it an American style democracy, is really bizarre.The only thing I can compare it to, is what Hitler did on behalf of the Germanic peoples of Europe.Invading Austria, Czechoslavokia, and Poland under the guise of liberating oppressed German peoples.A pre emptive first strike against the Jewish democracies who oppressed Germans everywhere.That's the justification he used.That's the only thing close to what we're doing I can find.
Although, an example on a smaller scale.It's like, if I have a neighbor, and I know he shot my cat.I know he has guns.I heard he once did something nasty to a child.And I think he just might shoot me one day.So, I call the cops.They find no guns.They do nothing, those crummy cops with their Constitution.Well, I know how crafty this guy is, so I just go over and kill him.That's kinds of what it seems like.
But that's just my opinion!I could be wrong, and have been before!
Peace and Love
BrightStar


What Is Truth? Apr 2nd. at 11:08:55 am UTC

Esther (michigan) Age: 50 - Email


It is hard to be for or against something when you suspect the reason for the war are highly suspect. I believe the reason for taking Iraq is more due to location-take out a map and look at the surrounding countries-most are terrorist bearing and supporting. Taking Iraq is then a good strategy for our war on terror or our worst nightmare depending on the outcome. I support our troops. As for the protesters-the real , sincere protesters are just fine. What i don"t like is all the ones who are backed by various groups and seem to protest for a living. They pop up at every protest there is and if you closly read the signs you can pick them out-over and over again. They need to get a life and i mean a real one.


Mind Not Changed Apr 2nd. at 11:24:06 am UTC

Night Eagle (Ft Stewart/Savannah, GA) Age: 41 - Email


It is sad that young men and women have to put their very life on the line in order to bring about change. I consider myself to be a compassionate person and would not turn someone away or look the other way if they needed help. Yes, we live in the "land of the free, and the home of the BRAVE." and because of this we have the ability to help those in need (or should we turn our backs and pretend it does not exist?) . The world is becoming a smaller and smaller place and soon this could be on our doorsteps and in our streets, I for one kiss my baby boy every night, telling him to have sweet dreams, what have the mothers in Iraq been whispering in their babies ears for the last 25 years. They are all in my heart and prayers.


Getting Hard To Be Loving Apr 2nd. at 11:35:36 am UTC

Gunshythirdeye (Anchorage, Alaska) Age: 49 - Email


This supbject continues to be a rollarcoaster of emotions.
One day I feel forgiving and understanding.
The next I get angry at the horrible acts of such dishonorible behavior.
It is truly testing my nature to be loving.
I never thought that I would see a time when I would feel an anger and almost hate towards a paticular group of people and a certain religion and wonder what they stand for.
I know that most of them hate us who are Infidels in their eyes.
Anger on this magnitude is not an easy emotion for me to accept in my standard that I have set for me.
But the horrible things that I see on TV and read on the internet, and I do try to keep my sources as broad as I can in order to be fare and get news from all the different sides.
I hope that we get them and make them pay.
Then maybe just maybe we can show the rest of them that they cannot get away with kind of behavior anymore.
And there are a group of people in Washington D.C. who need to answer for their part in putting so many in harms way too.
So I have to try and forgive my self for feeling so dark over all of this.
Love and Light that's what I have to remember


My Ultimate Fears.. Apr 2nd. at 1:54:22 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


I am not concerned as to whether we will get the regime out. I am also hearing reports that Iraqis are fighting on the front lines with us. I hvae only a fox news link that shows it but I would like to focus will and intent on that happening more and more as we progress. I am afraid that we and other countries sealed our own fate to resolve this peacefully when we all gave him chem/bio/nuclear capabilities.

But the two things that really scare me. Bush and his patriot acts. I don't think it is childish to say that you are scared of bush and what he is doing. I think it is honest and sincere. I am scared of bush too simply cause of the seat he now occupies. And I plan to convey that fear with my vote and hope that those that didn't vote last time make the effort to do so this time and get rid of him as president. I just don't want him as a president.

The other fear I have is that we are not going to find Saddam and he is going to become as elusive to get as Osama Bin Laden is currently. That scares me greatly. If it shows those chemical and bio weapons are not in Iraq. They were not all used. and there is no evidence to date saying they have been destroyed. I am worried a terror group he has hid them so that when we take baghdad, he can escape and use them or worse give them to osama.

I appologize if some of you feel I have dominated this board but I would like to think I had alot to bring to it. and unlike some I know where the freedom of speach boundary is. and that means while I aknowledge what was said regarding my posting frequency I will tone it down.... but I will not shut up. Anymore than anyone else in here.

interesting readin related. Link to More info related to this post -- HERE


Just A Thought Apr 2nd. at 2:42:31 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


Seeing as the US and Britain have declared war on Iraq, then I would be right in asuming that any attack by these groups by any means on US or Brit soil or against its persons would be an act of war and not of Terrorism?
That could be interesting now couldnt it?
Skeggi


No, My View Has Not Changed Apr 2nd. at 3:12:31 pm UTC

slackfoomaster (Oregon) Age: 29 - Email


I have not changed my position on the war. i am all for it, someone needs to step in and stop the garbage that saddam is saying and doing. i have a couple of friends that used to live in Iraq and 2 of them were in the republican guard and i have heard some of the tatics that saddam uses to get his troops to do what he wants and believe me if he walks up to me and says that if i dont't do what he says he will kill my entire family while i watch and then kill me I will do anything he says. One of my friends told me how he watched his best friend say no and then watched as his family was slaughtered and then he was killed and his body dragged through town. Now to all of those peopl who think that we are just over there for OIL well just think of what I just said and then rethink your position.

Now, the protesters, if you want to protest thats fine but when you decide to spit on and throw things at the family's of service men and women well you have stepped over the line. I was out with my best friend and her husband is in the reserve's and we drove to a mall and she has a base sticker on her car window and there was a few people there who saw the sticker and started to thow things at her and her 3 year old child and that made me mad. i was about to step in when a cop stopped and asked what the problem was and we explained what had happened and because one of the things that were thrown was a rock and it hit my friend in the side they sited the person who threw the rock.Then we had to explain to her child why these people are trying to hurt us and what did we do to deserve what they did...I guess the main issue I have with the protesters is that they say they want piece and no violence but they have no problem spitting on people and throwing things at people and destroying property.

I guess the hardest thing for me to understand is how can people act this way and then hide behind there rights to do what they do, when people many years ago gave up there lives so they can have these rights. I believe in the rights that we have and i cherish them but there are some people who cross those lines and they should be punished.

Just like anyother war there are hidden motives and some are good and some are bad but remember this is war people and things will be done that are not popular to alot of people. For example the van full of women and children taht were trying to run the check point and they would not stop so they got fired on and inocent people lost there lives and that pist alot of people off but look at it from the other side, if they were not stopped and they had a trunk full of explosives and they were allowed to get to a public place and do a suicide bombing we would catch hell for not stopping them before they got there. Basically no matter what the americans do we are in the wrong. If we help we are wrong and if we dont help we are wrong. Well what can we do. Being as powerful as we are we have become the big brother of the world, we are expected to help everyone and if we dont we are we are bastards.So we have to take the good with the bad. Hopefully this will end as soon as possible so we can bring our men and women home...


Hrm... Apr 2nd. at 3:50:37 pm UTC

Lugh Branwen (Brooklyn, NY) Age: 34 - Email


Well the attitude seems to be shifting I think, but I do want address something specific. Some here fear that If we continue on this war, that the terrorists attacks will continue. Here is the sad truth, they would continue none the less. Keep In mind that The US is hated by many of these fanatics because we are (If only in appearance) Proof that People of Differing faiths and religions can live in relative peace. Something to Keep in mind that these people (The terrorists) Do Not care about if we appease them or not. THEY WANT TO KILL US!!! Just for being alive, Just for differing with them. Like the Nazis there is No reasoning with them. Also keep in Mind that if the Extremeists win, We are one of the first victims they would choose because we are "Idol-Worshippers" and if you think the X-ian Fundies are bad, the Muslims are Much WORSE...Much More so.
Either way they will look for a reason to Hate us even if we pulled out of Iraq Now. Even if we abandonned Isreal...Even if we let them put their perverse religion into our Land as the official religion. Saddam is only too happy to Help them come at us because we show that it is possible for people to Not only Live here, but to prosper, to grow and to worship as we choose.
Should we then try to appease people like that?
The answer is Hell NO.


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