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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,230,046  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 153

Lurker/Post Ratio: 214 to 1

Question of the Week: 95 - 1/19/2003

How Do You Feel About War?

‘Yes I'm talking about this war dance/ A patriotic romance./And I know all you poets/Have seen it all before…’ – Colin Moulding, XTC

Colin: ‘The words were originally prompted by the Falklands War in 1982. But it was too much on one piece of history. Then along came the Persian Gulf War and I put the revised lyrics to a new piece of music. It was time to bring war out of the closet again.’


And again, it would seem. How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?

Do your political leanings influence how you feel?

Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?

 Reponses:   There are 153 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


What Kind Of War Jan 19th. at 11:46:59 pm UTC

SilverMoon (Idaho) Age: 20 - Email


Throughout the entire history of conflict.

When I read this subject the first thought that came into my head; was What kind of War?

War against slavery?
War against terrorism?
Wars against the absence of relgious, social or political freedom.

"Fight for what is Right"

Verbally, Spiritually, or Physically?

"To each man his own"

What about the Revolutionary War? The war for freedom.
What about a War against those who would conquer you?

I cannot say that all war is bad. I am glad as an american that we are free. Would we have been if we lost the Revolutionary War.

Not all wars are either totally "bad", or totally "good".

People have died, Cultures have fallen, Civilizations lost.

But not one of us can say that our Civlization was lost. Most of us are people that are decended from the winning, supporting, loyal, friendly, cooperative or neutral sides or people in a conflict.

Compared to the age of the Earth, the human race is still very young, with each century we are learning and growing.


My Two Cents Jan 20th. at 12:02:52 am UTC

Xius (Tampa, FL) Age: 19 - Email


There are certain times in which war is inevitable, even beneficial for the human race. The two world wars, for instance. I would even go so far as to say that if I believed the Bush administration was honest in its claims that Iraq planned to use nukes or chemical weapons on the U.S. and its allies that such a war SHOULD be fought.

Basically, I believe that war should be fought for:

1) Protection from our invasion / annihilation or that of our allies.
2) Protection of civil liberties (not that those exist anymore)

I disagree with war being fought for:

1)economic gain
2)political popularity /influence
3)as an excuse to undermine civil liberties for "the greater good of national security"
4)because daddy Bush told me to do it.

I have no problem with a war that I believe is justified, I just do not believe that this war, or the war on terrorism for that matter, is such a war.

--Xius


Alot Jan 20th. at 12:12:36 am UTC

melissa (philadelphia) Age: 25 - Email


well,,, first I have the part of me that wants peace, love, a safe happy world,dont start any trouble, live and let live. Then there is the part of me that wants to kick some ass and make them all cry, my blood is easy to boil, I guess it runs in the family. I suppose I should settle my own internal war before trying to add my wisdom to this problem solving forum. Maybe thats where all of this comes from anyway, our leaders are just as mixed up as the rest of us, they just have more money in their pockets. but it honestly scares the shit out of me and I want to hide in a cave and wait for it to pass like a cloud, but that wont happen, men are fools,,,,,,,,


Where's The Proof??? Jan 20th. at 12:27:27 am UTC

Belle Starr (Virginia) Age: 50 - Email


Yes, I'm against the war. My husband served in the Gulf War, when there were reasons to fight. But now, it's like the Vietnam era all over again------sending folks to a war, because the Pres.& Congress want it that way. Where's the Proof----that Sadam has such terrible weapons to destroy anyone??? Just because George Sr. didn't finish Sadam off during his term of office, doesn't mean that Junior can be a "Big Boy" and do what his father never did---and using the lives of innocent military personnel to do it. Let's concentrate on helping our schools, medical benefits for the elderly. Too many folks are against this action, but we're being ignored by our Pres. & Congress.


An Outsiders Look Jan 20th. at 12:45:25 am UTC

Daniel (Alabama) Age: 18 - Email


First off i've been looking into Wicca for a while and i haven't been able to find someone personly to talk to that can get me some personal info on the subject. That said, i really can't give a view of this subject from a Wicca "follower". However i will explain my personal view as an outsider. I think that if they can prove that the U.S. and her citizens are in danger by an outside source then we should defend ouselves and our way of life. Also if any country should have the intent on hurting us in the future, i feel that, we should handle them before they get into the postion to hurt us. I'm a firm believer that our government is a good one and that what happens is for the better good for US! (as americans) Now if anyone out there is mad for what i said sorry but thats what i think. One last thing if anyone would like to send me stuff information concerning Wicca i would be greatly thankful. my e-mail is RoundGuy84@msn.com plz no chainletters (i hate those):)


War For The Sake Of Politics Jan 20th. at 1:07:59 am UTC

Celticmoon (Oklahoma) Age: 53 - Email


This particular war on "terrorism" frightens me because it is so vague. We have a president that speaks before he thinks, such as: "your either with us, or against us": Bin Laden 'dead or alive', and so on. Now to save face, he is putting the American people in a dangerous situation.

In World War II, we suffered a direct military attack from the Japanese government that wanted world domination. We KNEW who the enemy was. We had an immediate declaration of war from Congress, and the war was supported unanimously by the American people. What happened to going after Bin Laden. I haven't heard Bush mentioning him lately. If I remember right, weren't all the 9/11 hijackers Saudis? And we want to invade Iraq?

Now, are we planning to invade any country that we "think" may be harboring terrorists, or a country that "maybe" has weapons of mass destruction? "Either for us, or against us", remember? Our "intelligence" community couldn't find Bin Laden, and the weapons inspection is in no way conclusive, so now what? Are we going to war just because Bush wants to make sure all countries know he is serious? He is on one bad ego trip!

Also, since our government likes to work in secrecy, how do we know the dribbles of information we are tossed are accurate and tell the whole story? Should we trust what the government tells us? I think we all know the answer to that one!

As time goes on, Americans are beginning to speak out against a war without concrete evidence of weapons of mass destruction. I also hope the American people will wake up and realize the Patriot Act could very well be our downfall, and the terrorists would win without firing a single missle.

No country can come close to our military power and finances. BUT, we can be torn apart from the inside by a war without an end in sight that cannot be won, and a breakdown of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, which has already started by way of the Patriot Act.

May the Goddess bless us.


War Is Never A Good Thing... Jan 20th. at 1:31:13 am UTC

Andor (Santa Barbara, CA) Age: 28 - Email


War is never a good thing, no matter what the reason or the goal. War is horrible, war is costly in blood, in money, in so many ways. War has no real winners, no matter what the out come. War should be avoided... at almost all cost. Almost all cost. Can we always avoid war? Unfortunately no.

Even though war is never a good thing... some times it's not as bad as the other things that man tries to do to one another.

We have to be honest with ourselves and the rest of the world. We have to take responsibility for what we have done to the world. When ever, where ever possible, we need to attack the source of conflicts in the world and not our fellow man.

There are evil people in this world, no doubt. What makes a person evil? For me, an evil person is anyone who intentionally attempts to strip another person of rightfully obtained property, dignity, or life. Should evil people be stopped? Yes, so long as a greater evil does not have to be committed to do so.

I know the world will not turn into to a happy, hippy love-fest anytime soon, it may never. Should we give up on ever becoming a world full of enlightened, caring people? Never.

Do I know how to solve the problems in the middle east? No. Do I think I can prevent the war in the middle east? No. I alone can not solve the worlds problems, I alone cannot prevent war.

What can I do then? I can do a lot, as long as I try. Try to understand myself and try to make myself a better person. Try to understand those around me and around the world. Try to accept others even when their beliefs and values may differ from mine. Try not to deprive others of what is rightfully their's. Try to make those in power accountable for their actions. Try to make the world a better place.

When enough of us try, then indeed, we will change the world.


War, What Is It Good For... Jan 20th. at 1:39:07 am UTC

David Aquarius (Renton, WA USA) Age: 44 - Email


War. The conflict between two opposing forces.
Is it a necessary evil? To be a necessary evil, there should be no other feasable alternative. For one to accept a necessary evil, there must be no other course of action possible. All choices would be worse that the evil you choose.
War always has alternatives. In the past, even recently, the case could be made for the decision to go to war. But now, with the advent of high tech sciences, we can see the formation of conflict before a war occurs. These conflicts can be directed to agencies that will mediate them, bring about a peaceful solution. If deadly force is used, it is in self-defense, immediate self-defense.
There are always those who look to past wars and historic battles with an air of nostalgia. They see the 'glamour' of war, the bravado and the sacrifice. What they fail to remember is the reality of war.
War is blood, it's the unattached body parts of your friends and family.
War is pain. The anquish of a lost child, either as a soldier or a civilian. The sorrow of friends and co-workers who must deal the the loss.
War is fear. It is being placed in situations where you must unlease horror onto people you have never met.
And what of these people we fight? They aren't enemies, they are people others have demonized and told us are enemies. And these people have been told that we are an enemy, demonizing us and our families. War is about lies, it is about fear and hatred. It is about ignorance.
There is no honor in war. No glorious battles, nor victories. In war, all parties lose. In war, there is only blood, pain and death. War is anti-human.

From the title, an answer...

Absolutely nothin'


War From Someone Outside The Propaganda Jan 20th. at 2:47:58 am UTC

Skeggi (New Zealand) Age: 32 - Email


From what ive seen everyone is divided on this subject. In this country it seems to go along the lines of generational differences. Basiclly the younger people dont want war, the older people dont nescessarily want it but they trust the US to do the right thing.
Younger people dont trust the US. They tend to be very cautious about America pushing its weight around and frankly without proof believe that Bush decided sometime ago that war was what he wanted.
It seems that when you are not prepared to do what the states declare you should you are putting yourself in a very vunerable position. I dont think there should be a war and i dont think we should send any aid to the American/ British task force unless the UN declares that this is necessary. The UN is the only protection available to us as small countries, and America seems determind to throw this protection to the wolves.
Are we going to see more trade santions (we have some against us already) because of our nuclear free policy?
i also think that before America condems anyone for Terrorism they should have a long hard look at the direct and indirect acts of terrorism they have been a part of over the last 50 years.
I hope war can be avoided and i hope the world sends a message to Bush to pull his head in.
But I have a feeling im going to be dissapointed.
Skeggi.


Let Me Think About It...NO! Jan 20th. at 7:24:21 am UTC

jade (canada) Age: 16 - Email


first of all i'm a canadian, and you (the americans) might not believe that this affects me, but it does. i believe in world peace, but i also know that this is practically impossible. power is a big issue here. oil is what represents power, the states want it. personally i believe that they are a bunch of bullies. to prove that to you, check out the website www.whatreallyhappened.com you'll be surprised to know the truth about the americans, and their government. i not only oppose this war as a pagan, but also as a person. the world is my future, and i want to have one to live in! it's evident that many people feel this way, and the people who do are obviously the educated ones, the ones that aren't listening to the propaganda, but getting out there and finding out the truth. i am sincerely sorry for all the uneducated people, hey, there probably the same people who voted bush in in the first place! and we all know what a REAL LEADER he is. support the war on terrorism? ok, the states are the terrorists, they're the ones who kill the most people (because they have the power to do it), they are the real threat. they'll get what's coming to them! there should be no war against iraq, or any other country unless there's a good reason. quite frankly, the states don't have a good reason. like i said, check out the website (www.whatreallyhappened.com), you might learn something that's true! Link to More info related to this post -- HERE


The Weeping Of A Thousand Thousand Years Jan 20th. at 8:08:16 am UTC

Starlight Bunnybutt (FL, USA) Age: 26 - Email


"The spear in the Other's heart is the spear in your own, you are he." - Surak

If I were to strike off your hand, my wrist would bleed. Can you not hear the weeping of a thousand thousand mothers over the bodies of their children? Would you bear the lash or strike down the one who hits you? Do you think he does not have a mother who once suckled him and called him her only love?

Were our wars necessary, would they have come about if they hadn't been caused by a society that found violence against others necessary? If our insistance on war did not foster the culture that raised the warmongers, could we then see how each being is our kin?

Shall I cut out my right eye to see a better tomorrow? Is such a tomorrow possible if it is built on the deaths we reap today? Change is not made by the violent man, but by the man who sees a way other than violence.

Wisdom and enlightenment tell us that peace is the only path towards a peaceful future. To paraphrase a very wise Vulcan: "Reach out to those whom have wronged you with peace. And if he should strike you again, offer peace. And if he should strike you dead you go offering him peace. In this way shall your life be peaceful." Surak ("Spocks World", Diane Duane)

Perhaps a culture that lived that way would be destroyed by the first who wished to conquer them. The question to ask is if a culture that believes any other way deserves to live.


Harm None Jan 20th. at 8:12:44 am UTC

Amber Moon (Kansas City) Age: 41 - Email


I agree with Xius, and most all of the other posts. Harm none means exactly that, and includes self. So, defensive measures yes. . . but oil for weasel-eyed Bush, no.


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