The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
||This Page Viewed: 20,288,729
Vox Q Stats|
Times Viewed: 32,767
Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1
Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003
Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?
Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?
Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?
Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?
What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?
| Reponses: There are 258 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| Do You Remember That Episode Of Star Trek Where... ||Mar 24th. at 9:20:14 pm EST|
|Robert Elm (Reseda) ||Age: 28 - Email |
Hi. Before this war got started I hated Bush and Hussein, and after this war got started I still hate Bush and Hussein. Any individual that this hot to send his own countrymen to their deaths for their own gratification and selfish gains as these two wretched beasts deserve to be chained down and tortured by the families of the soldiers who died in their conflict. Bush's fortunes come from oil holdings, does anyone here think that an opportunist like him hasn't thought about how high the price of oil would raise by attacking Iraq?!?! Do I even need to bring up what kind of scum Hussein is? My Website design teacher summed it up best when he said that Hussein and Bush should fight it out to the death if they're so hot to blow someone up. Visions of Star Trek float through my mind with Kirk dukeing it out with Spock with some kind of Vulcan axes to the cheesiest music imaginable. There's a pay per veiw event I'd watch, and no one of any real value has to die unlike the soldiers that have died so far to the benefit of the news networks. There is only one thing about this war that doesn't disgust me, the possibility of the Iraqis' freedom from Hussein. It makes me sick to think that Governor Bush has used this as his excuse to pad his pockets with more cash. }:>p>
| Let's Just Finish It! ||Mar 24th. at 9:28:34 pm EST|
|Am-e (Portland, IN) ||Age: 25 - Email |
My position on this war hasn't changed. I won't go into the details or what side I'm on, it isn't relevant now. What IS relevant is what the outcome will be. I support our troops 110% and wish them the best. And I hope that we at least see this thing through to the very end and not only remove Saddam from power, but also disarm Iraq. I also hope that we do not walk away and forget that Iraq will need a lot of reconstruction. The US has a bad record for walking out on countries after we've trashed them.
I've never felt unsafe in the country. Not even on 9/11. This country will always be the safest place on the planet to be, unless we allow our government to continue to turn it more and more into a military state, with armed guards everywhere. I'm not afraid, why should someone else's paranoia hinder my freedoms. No one lives forever.
| Regime Change Has Always Been The Priority Anyways. ||Mar 24th. at 9:47:24 pm EST|
|Maleciah (Oregon) ||Age: 25 - Email |
I DO NOT support bush. I DO support the war. Too many people are to blame for what lies before us now. We were the ones to stand up, admit that we were a PART (not all) of the problem due to actions and descisions by governments past. BUT, we at least are willing to fix it, to make it up to the iraqi people for telling them to revolt against Saddam, and as they did we were gonna fix it then till the international community stepped in and insisted we let Saddam keep power. Consequently, all those who revolted during the gulf war have been killed or tortured till they died. My friend and his family who came from Iraq verified this and showed me stories proving it. IF the Arab nations were really as "condemning" of him as they are so fond of saying, they would have followed their policy of "we handle our own" and done away with saddam a LONG TIME AGO. but they chose not to, they decided to sit back and be ok with him killing his own people cause they weren't from other countries and then show dead children to push their agenda even though Saddam has killed many kids. I am not. I don't care who they are. Regime change was (if not, should have been) the US agenda from the beginning. The US was hoping for a peaceful resolution to this. but Saddam (even growing up) never knew what peace was (look at his bio) . and to see the same people at anti war protests go to concentration camps and say "oh what a tragedy" (snap a picture) . Those would not be "attractions" now if it wasn't for the US coming in and helping in getting rid of someone who liked to kill people in his own people. but it was only after they did it to their neighbors that we finally stepped in.. just like this time with Kuwait.
I think this could have been taken care of a long time ago through diplomatic means and UN sanctions could have worked if it was right after Saddam took power.. but sadly, with countries still buying and selling to Saddam.. Sanctions and the UN are just a day late and a dollar short. Peace is no longer a way to solve this problem. how many times do you have to see a little kid get beat by their parents before you call C.S.D? You may laugh and say those are not even in the same ball park. BUT, You don't know how afraid of this man the Iraqi people are. They are afraid of Saddam like a child would be afraid of their parents after seeing their parent kill their brother. That is very much in the same ball park. and if you have any doubts about that.. go to the arab news sites and see the execution style bullet holes in our troops heads next to those who are still alive and trembling with fear. right next to the story from the Iraqi goverment that they will abide by the geneva convention. Yeah this guy should stay in power. he is a just and fair leader *dripping with sarcasm*
As far as the anti war protests, I am glad that people are expressing their opinion! But If I was at a protest my goal for a peace rally would be to be peaceful, and I see fights happening all over when it comes to these protests. Police come to make sure that things don't get out of hand and it costs alot of money to have them out. Money that could be spent on their pay for finding sleeper cells and other dangers to society (admittedly not all police dept. are open-minded as much as they are here in Oregon) . But instead they are out there trying to play security guards. Protest, prove your point and then go home.. if you feel so motivated to protest again, set up for the next day. But don't Flood the streets and walk in front of speeding cars on 3 interstate highways (like they did here) and make the police jobs harder for them and you. Here in Portland, the protests said on the flyer to plan on being arrested and when you are give them your name and call a number where there is lawyers waiting for your call. what is that?! a telethon?! I think that it is sad that there are people out there just trying to convey a point that they don't support war, meanwhile others are looking to cause a rukus cause it would be cool (being pagans we can identify with this considering how many of our gatherings are disturbed by these or like-minded people impairing you from getting your point across. When the police say stay on the sidewalk, what is the problem with being on the sidewalk.. can you not protest from there as easily as the street? it is irresponsible to cause that much problem to proove your point news coverage and shear numbers will provide that. If you are looking for an arguement and with the police, you will get one.
As far as my rights.. all I have to say is the patriot act and the second one need to go.. just like the electoral college needs to go. if we are a symbol of a democratic society there should be nothing in the government that allows them to over-rule a popular vote!
I do not think that this war nor the opinions of such divides us. Debating and talking about these issues that face us today not only allow us to be able to better understand each other but also helps show a non-biased side of things. I think this is a strength. I am happy that people are talking and taking advantage of the net to get their ideas and thoughts out there. the internet is a physical way of prooving we are all a part of the same web of life. and as all pagans know, death is a part of life.
BB to all. P.L.U.R. (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect)
(Please note that the link is not for the faint of heart but to prove a point.. on the page (top left) is a picture of a baby crying and then goes to red letters those letters say Victims of US and british bombs) What is this designed to accomplish other than to inflame people? nothing it is all part of the iraqi propoganda war led by saddam who pays aljazeera alot of money. and people buy into it as much as americans buy into the propoganda war the US does.
Link to More info related to this post -- HERE
| Dont Worry Malakai! ||Mar 24th. at 9:47:44 pm EST|
|Skeggi (NZ) ||Age: 32 - Email |
Im sure the Iraqi soilders will treat them under the Geneva convention, following the fine example shown by your own country at Guantanamo Bay!
| Sorry Skeggi ||Mar 24th. at 10:06:43 pm EST|
|Maleciah (Oregon) ||Age: 25 - Email |
I don't recall us shooting soldiers execution style and then video taping the others while interrogating them and putting it on CNN. But if you have the article to prove otherwise, PLEASE feel free to send it to me. If you do find one though, I can provide upteen sources from many places to prove otherwise. I don't see where your claim has base.
| No But ||Mar 24th. at 10:15:47 pm EST|
|Skeggi (NZ) ||Age: 32 - Email |
No but then people dont just die from suspected beatings, keeping people in uncomfortable positions for hours is torture nad how long can your police department hold you without laying a charge?
Yet under some loop hole or another men whose only crimes seem to be taking up arms to defend their own country against American aggression, could well face years in tiny makeshift cells with no chance of a hearing. Tortured humanely and quietly dieing when the interveiw goes wrong or on too long.
Also as for videoing captured soilders the west did it first, showing both Iraqi deserters, POWs and causualties. The west wanted to show the iraqi people a disloyal army fleeing and surrendering, well it back fired. Now you get to see American POWs and casualties, fairs fair.
| Why War? ||Mar 24th. at 10:38:45 pm EST|
|Ever (Florida) ||Age: 15 - Email |
I believe that to an extent, war may be necessary. I don't like it or approve of it, but I admit that a bit may be necessary. I especially do not approve of the way the war was started. I am no Bush fan, and find it ironic that the two people that people mainly want to kill, or at least get rid of (Sadaam and Bush) , seem to show no signs of going out to fight themselves. I really wish that The UN could have stuck to the time limits they gave Sadaam, and decided on a resolution. I would have preferd being a part of the UN in solving this, rather than going against them. I support the men and women serving our contry, because they are doing what they believe is right, and most of us have, or know someone who has a loved one who's serving our country.
I believe that both pro- and anti-war demonstrations are a reasonable excercise of our freedom of speech. Expressing yourself in very important, and as long as it doesn't become violent (yes, that sounds ironic when discussing war) , it is acceptable in my opinion. I can't really speak on the feelings between sides, because I have friends who disagree with my stand and we still are friends, and I know people who think I am anit-American because I am anti-war.
I do not feel that the suspending of our liberties is doing an equal amount of good. I feel that to an extent, protection is important, but I know a lot of people who are afraid to voice their anti-Bush or anti-war thoughts because they're afraid they'll be arrested as terrorists. It may seem amusing, but when people feel threatened because of theire opinions, then suspension of liberties has gone too far!
Overall, the war in Iraq is worrisome to me and many of my friends. The innocent lives at risk, even just one, is too many! The war is causing conflict not only in America and Iraq, but everywhere. Are we supposed to substitute the word "French" with Freedom. Yes! Someone decided that French fries are now Freedom Fries! Do we also eat Freedom toast? Or do we Freedom kiss? (let's not try to interperate THAT one!) Many of my friends and I are constantly worried that this could lead into a bigger war, potentially World War III. Many condescending adults pat us on the heads and say "Of course not! Don't worry your little heads. You can't understand" Well, guess what. We do understand. We understand that we're the ones who will be drafted, and that we're the oones who will have to clean up the mess that the war is only adding onto. If I am ranting and raving, I apologize. Everyone has their own opinions. Well, now you know mine.
| Fair Is Fair When The Situations Are Comparable ||Mar 24th. at 10:51:53 pm EST|
|Maleciah (Oregon) ||Age: 25 - Email |
Do you think the people of Afghanistan are sad that the taliban is gone? do you think the world is sad hitler is gone? NO. Who had to step in to ensure they were gone? NOT NEW ZEALAND. The US media has not to my knowledge shown casualties on tv due to this thing that we call the FCC that prohibits alot of it. We did not violate the geneva convention by showing the Iraqi soldiers defecting. That is not included in the articles of the geneva convention, perhaps I could get the articles for you and send them to you. We have been watching that closely, alternatively you are not getting the same news we get here in the states and I have been glued to the american as well as arab news since this started. due to the fact that what I am doing in conjunction with ex-Iraqi soldiers/ citizens that are currently helping the UN and the US in developing a new democratic parliment for the Iraqi people. What are you doing to bring about a solution to this problem? It is not ment accusingly, I am genuinely curious! These people are not being inhumanely kept. as far as being an enemy combatant, If we play the game of conspiracy theory and we had matial law everywhere. you think it will stop at the US? doubtful.
War is war, yes, but one wrong does not make a right. and if you aren't at guantanamo you don't know what is going on there. if you really are that interested/worried in finding out their welfare. might I suggest going to cuba to find out.
| NOT SURE ||Mar 24th. at 11:30:14 pm EST|
|listeningwolf (Michigan) ||Age: 38 - Email |
I'm not sure IF this war IS right or wrong.I just KNOW that people are dying left and right!??!! I KNOW I HATE how OUR PEOPLE ARE BEING TREATED. I'm NOT sure what makes a war ok or not???? The GOV? THE PEOPLE ???? I just know that MOST did NOT want to go to war BUT NOW that we HAVE we have NO CHOICE BUT TO HOPE OUR BOYS and GIRLS get home SAFELY!! I'm VERY ANGRY that this has come to this!!! I'm also ANGRY that Russia FELT it was OK to send the IRAQ'S the SAME weapons that WE HAVE ASKED THEM NOT TO!!!!!!!!!!!! VIA CONTRACT WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya know they talk about the USA "sticking it's nose where it don't belong" WHAT ABOUT THIS?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HMMMMMMMMMMMM makes me think why did the FRENCH, Germany, Russia, China NOT WANT A PART IN THIS WAR??????ARE THEY GIVING MORE AMMO THEN WE ARE AWARE????? BEING A CIVIL I'm NOT PRIVY TO THIS INFO!!! BUT IT SURE IS LOOKING THAT WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FIND THIS BS BIG TIME !!! WHAY's NEXT N KOREA??? HELLO WE STILL HAVE ANOTHER WAR GOING ON REMEMBER?????? DOES ANY BODY REMEMBER BINNY BOY??????????? I think we're going to be spreading ourselves VERY thin in the months to come................ LW
| Not New Zealand ||Mar 24th. at 11:37:31 pm EST|
|Skeggi (NZ) ||Age: 32 - Email |
Lets look at the fundimental differences between Afghanastan and Iraq, the UN. PS NZ troops were there. Also NZ was fighting Hitler when America was pretending it was a little war in Europe that didnt involve them. I would challenge you to find a country that made more impact person for person than NZ.
Funny casulaties have been shown by CNN outside of the states, wonder why?
Also remember your in this with Britain, remember those ones your troops keep killing by accident, and they have shown far more than your tv stations.
You do not address my concerns about the treatment of POWS in Cuba. The funny thing is no one knows what is going on there. Is it still one rule for the US and one for the rest of the world.
New Zealand has the courage to back the UN against the US, because it is the right thing to do, not because they support Saddam.
Why do Iraqis fight, and fight well? Because it is THEIR country and Saddam is THeir problem Not yours. The UN's but not yours.
America is the aggressor, responsible for every death in this war and in the blood bath that will follow it.
| War: Not Now, Not Ever ||Mar 25th. at 12:41:35 am EST|
|MBW (California) ||Age: 51 - Email |
In my lifetime I have lived to see too many wars. Korea, VietNam, Gulf and now Iraq. Wars have always been a part of my life. I have never ceased to become angry with the concept that war and killing will bring peace. It just does not happen that way!!! No country has ever proven to be better off after being "saved" by another country. This is not a reality. Unfortunately, governments do not seem to grasp that concept.
For many years I have marched in protest of war. This war is no different. As we destroy human life with "smart" bombs and bullets we also destroy our souls. As our leaders choose to involve our countries in legal acts of murder known as "war" we as spiritual beings die as well. The souls of those who have suffered and died continue to touch our lives as we walk this plane of life. They cry out to us to protest and use any legal means available to us to stop the killing. If you listen, you can hear them. So, I am marching one more time in protest. I pray with all my soul that this will be the last time I will have to march but somewhere inside my being, I am doubtful. After all, governments do not really fight wars. We the individual people of our world are all too willing to do that for them.
As we erode away our civil liberties in the name of "security", we have stripped individuals of their right to exist side by side. It has happened so gradually that we hardly recognize it for what it is: Discrimination, Bigotry and Hate. When we suspend civil liberties, we allow legalized discrimination and bigotry into our daily lives and hate begins to grow. Was it not our elected government officials who told us that the fight for freedom from Discrimination, Bigotry and Hate was the basis for this war to begin with?
This war must stop!!! At some point future generations must be taught that there is another way. This a fight worth undertaking. This is a fight that we as individuals can win. The greatest gift we can give to our future is the gift of peace.
| US Is Responsible? ||Mar 25th. at 1:09:51 am EST|
|Maleciah (Oregon) ||Age: 25 - Email |
NZ was fighting Hitler when America was pretending it was a little war in Europe that didnt involve them?!?! WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO FOR YOU?! we get dammned by you when we stay out of it? and damned if we get involved?! And you say it is one rule for us and one rule for the rest of the world? Either way, NZ troops have been the significant fighting force of which wars? I realize that we have more troops and better weapons and are a global superpower I AM SO SORRY. how horrible for YOU. and as far as Afghanistan and NZ, NZ currently has NO army OR navy deployment in Afghanistan, and air force you ask? This is NZ's total air force:
The RNZAF has:
2 Boeing 727s,
5 C-130H Hercules,
6 P3-K Orions,
14 Bell UH-1H Iroquois,
5 Bell 47G Sioux,
13 Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainer,
and 5 Beech King Air B200.
Total of 50 aircraft
The Entire Military Personel Composition in NZ (including Reg. forces, special ops, and civilian staff) totals 26, 378 with a potential of up to 1 million if a draft was imposed. (est. 2002) NZ lost 10, 000 troops in WW2 compared to 292, 000 US soldiers. WE know what loss is and don't want it anymore than you do. I am so tired of the US being called the "white satan" We have changed alot since then and have come a long way as well! This internet site and this forum is living proof of that.
I have to think that you would have checked your facts before being so grandiose about such statements. We are the main protective force in the world and have been either hassled into or felt the NEED (not want) to be involved in ALL of the major wars since the industrial revolution. In WW2, the NZ airforce was used to help train the british and was not mainly used for actual combat. Of the 131, 000 graduates from New zealands air force, only 7002 were actually from New zealand. All the rest were allied troops from other countries. I am not trying to downplay what they did, Your country gave what they could. But don't try to so quickly dismiss our losses for wars gone by. Russia I give some slack to cause of the fact that their country has not only been turned inside out, but also lost 50 times as many troops in WW2 than any other country and the next 2 were England and the US. It truly saddens me to see people so hostile towards the US and their actions considering how much of the world we ARE involved in due to technology as well as financial wealth and food supplies. You sound like someone yelling about the man bringing them down. Which only makes me laugh.
Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2018 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.
Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.
Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wrenâ€™s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witchesâ€™ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.
Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.
Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.