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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,730,374  

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Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 263

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Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000

The Unresolved US Election

Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?

 Reponses:   There are 263 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


We The Voters Of The Great State Of Florida, Being Of Sound... Nov 13th. at 7:17:43 pm UTC

Democrat-4-Fair-Count Eli (Fort Lauderdale, Florida US) Age: 18


We the voters of the Great State of Florida, being of sound mind and judgement, did go into...

the polling centers largely unaware of the phenomenon of hanging chads, of the horrible possibility of mechanical errors, of a ballot that illegally and for no logical reason places a third party between one of the main two and in a wholly confusing manner that even some law students have admitted having trouble figuring out. The black voters of Florida did go to the polls expecting their rights to be protected, and instead finding illegal action by police officers and poll workers, and are currently staging a massive sit-in in Tallahasee I invite everyone to join in if you can, and do not deserve to be turned away because everyone knows they vote 8-1 Democrat. Elderly people are subject to intimidation and often have vision and mind problems that place them at a discriminatory disadvantage with the ballot setups, and their voting right shall be protected, because no one in their right mind can tell me that holocaust survivors in Palm Beach County voted for Pat Buchanan. The ballot was illegal, and according with the law there will be reparations. Turning away and intimidating and denying help to the elderly and black because you know who they vote for will not be tolerated, whatever little brother Jeb Bush or his Communist Secretary of State may want. A vote will never be legally called before the results are in, and we the American people will make Governor Bush and his entire party sorry for this course of action he has pursued which is clearly against the law and flies in the face of deceny. Whatever they may feel, we the American people know that voting rights of black and elderly people shall be protected as everyone's rights are protected, and that anyone involved in criminal activity will be prosecuted to the utmost fullest extent of the law, up to and including either of the candidates themselves. We the voters of the Great State of Florida officially demand that our voting rights be protected as our Constitution guarantees and that anyone attempting to subverting that right be publically persecuted (let King George II have a piece of your mind). Here and all over our great nation, wherever it happened and whyever it happened, whoever it hurt and whoever it benefitted, any misconduct in the voting process shall be retroactively corrected, and the proper winner inaugurated only when that process is absolutely complete, because we the American people need a full taste of the fraudulency of our voting system up to and including having a lame duck President serve past his term if that's what it takes to motivate us enough for election conduct reform including a Federal ballot standard. These things will be fulfilled pursuant to that grand and wonderful, magickal word Democracy, which shall never be taken for granted or allowed to flounder in the eyes of the world.


No I Haven't Voted Since I Tyrn 18. And For 22 Years... Nov 13th. at 8:19:08 pm UTC

Tj. Blackhawk (Seattle, Washington US) Age: 44 - Email


No I haven't voted since I tyrn 18. And for 22 years I have not noticed anything from D.C. or locally that has caused me any grief. i truely believe in the "James T. Kirk school of thought" "I hate the no win senario" Choosing between two bad choices is no choice at all. I would start voting if. they put
None of the above, as a choice.. even if it was not counted. It would show the real feeling of people in this country. Tj. Blackhawk


I Held My Nose And Voted For Gore. I Don't Like Either... Nov 13th. at 9:06:16 pm UTC

Christopher Bingham (Seatt;e, Washington US) Age: 40 - Email


I held my nose and voted for Gore. I don't like either of the major parties, and I'm ashamed to be an American when the best we can come up with are the spoiled brat sons of of the monied aristocracy. At least Al Gore speaks in complete sentences. On the other hand GW shows that anyone with money, regardless of IQ, can make it to the presidency. What a country we live in! The least of us can make it to the top...

As for the Electoral College, and the oft quoted phrase that we're a "Republic, not a Democracy" that's true - and eliminating the electoral college would be a great step toward making us a more democratic republic. We're electing the president of the ENTIRE country - not a 50 member politburo. If people think that adding an extra level of beauracracy to the election process adds some balance or fairness to the distribution of votes, or somehaow makes folks in the less populous states "heard" think again - my vote - and the votes of about 900, 000 other folks who constitute the difference between Gore and GW may have our votes trumped by 390 disputed votes in state where the cops were giving tickets to blacks to keep them from the polls. I would say the same thing if Bush was in Gore's shoes (though maybe not as loudly) - the electoral college must go!

Also just to add to the scariness - GW, should he take office, will put forward not only the 4 possible Supremes, but (I've been told) a possible 800 judges across the entire federal bench. Imagine 800 Clarence Thomass' making decisions about police brutality, basic human rights, a woman's right to choose and we have reason to be afraid indeed.

See ya at the barricades....

Chris B.


Yes, I Did Vote. For Nader, Much To The Chagrin Of Loyal... Nov 14th. at 2:23:07 pm UTC

Trina Burke (Tallahassee, Florida US) Age: 25 - Email


Yes, I did vote. For Nader, much to the chagrin of loyal Democrats everywhere, many of whom have taken great pains to let me know that my vote has single-handedly flushed our country down the toilet (I'm not sure how they've worked that out in their minds, but whatever). I voted for Nader because I feel that the current two party system isn't working and I was hoping that the Greens would get their 5% so that they could have federal matching funds in future elections. I also agree with the Green Party's environmental stance and find Nader to be a refreshingly independent candidate--he does not allow the party that backs him to define his platform. He is a candidate in his own right rather than simply a representative of a party. I find that representatives of the big two parties are better at representing the interest of their parties rather than the interests of the people.

The constitutionally sanctioned recounts (in Florida) will be over tonight. Whoever gets the most votes, even if the candidate only wins by two votes, is entitled to Florida's electoral votes and will be the winner. After 5 pm tonight we should know who that is. Only then, and not until then, do I expect concession.

I don't think any president has the power to bring this country together. It's up to the people to unite. There are many more divisions in the U.S. than simply Democrat/Republican that will be there to distract people once the election is decided.

What impact will the results have on Pagan communities? Depends on who wins and on how vocal Pagan communities are. If Bush wins, well, we all know how he feels about Wicca. But if he (or his cronies/fundraisers) don't perceive Paganism as a threat to his lifestyle or the lifestyle of his supporters, then I'm sure he won't waste the time to do anything detrimental. If he does perceive it as a threat, I'm sure he will allow his supporters to run hogwild with the anti Pagan propaganda. It's a scary prospect, and one that none of us should take lightly.


Like Many People, I Voted For Al Gore As The "lesser Of... Nov 14th. at 3:33:43 pm UTC

Isis Celeste Nightwalker (Clearfield, Utah US) Age: 20 - Email


Like many people, I voted for Al Gore as the "lesser of two evils". It seems to me that the two-party system no longer works as it should. For instance, the Electoral College is a joke. This organization was intended to be part of our government's elaborate system of checks and balances, assuming the Electoral voters went with their states' popular vote. These voters are chosen by the parties, which give the voters special incentives to cast the ballot for their own candidate. I believe that Gore will be a bit better than Bush, if only for his environmental programs. However, I feel that religious freedom would take bad hit either way. The choice is either a ditzy, indecisive Republican and a quiet, paranoid Democrat. Neither choice is likely to do very much good for our country.


Yes, I Voted, But Wish I Now Had Voted Differently. Did You... Nov 14th. at 4:17:12 pm UTC

Stacy (Oconomowoc, Wisconsin US) Age: 37


Yes, I voted, but wish I now had voted differently. Did you hear about the kindergarten classes whose teachers gave them a ballot like the one used in West Palm Beach, Florida. They were told to vote for their favorite Disney character and not one 5 year old, in a total of 74 children, made an error? It was color coded, since some were unable to read, but since most adults are able to read, I'd like to know what the problem was. 96% of the people in West Palm Beach figured it out, and the other 4% that couldn't figure it out put this election on hold. I hope this ends soon, but to what means?


As A Legal Alien In The Us I Am Not Allowed To... Nov 14th. at 6:18:50 pm UTC

ratthedd (Somewhere, Michigan US) Age: 35


As a legal alien in the US I am not allowed to vote. I watch the daily banter between the parties and am greatly impressed with the system that the founding fathers of this country put in place. In most other countries, the warring factions would have resorted to physical violence long ago. It's nice to see that the country that has more handguns per capita than any other still has enough grace and dignity to keep them holstered when it really counts.

Although most people don't see it this way, the United States of America, as the name indicates, is a union of 50 free and independant states sworn to respect each other and support each other in times of need. We've seen this happen dozens of times as relief pours in from thousands of miles away when hurricanes destroy homes in Florida, or when floods wipe out entire towns along the Mississippi river, or when drought threatens livestock in the south. It is because of this bond that the electoral college is so important to large states with small populations, like Montana and Alaska. It would be a travesty to have urbanites demanding federal laws that help them but hurt those in rural areas in the same way that it would be a travesty for the morals of rural America to be forced on those in more densely populated areas.

After it's all done, there will be little or no impact on the pagan community. Mr. Bush's views on witchcraft won't make congress pass laws to disallow it any more than Mr. Gore's stance that "freedom of religion does not mean freedom _from_ religion." We will live through this - some of us will have a bitter taste in our mouths, others will feel a stronger bond, but we will make it.


Yes, I Voted. I Really Was Uneasy With Both Of The Major... Nov 15th. at 12:42:58 am UTC

Croisanna (Louisville, Kentucky US) Age: 48


Yes, I voted. I really was uneasy with both of the major party candidates; ultimately I voted for Bush. LOTE time. (Lesser of Two Evils). Bush makes me uneasy, but Gore scares the pitty-wot out of me.
I did not feel there were any other strong, viable candidates out there. We need new blood in the political field, but I doubt we will get many new, qualified people running for office with the political climate the way it is today.

Anyway, I work on the premise(as my mother always says): If you don't vote, don't bitch.


I Voted For Gore, Knowing That Montana Was Going To Fall To... Nov 15th. at 2:10:27 pm UTC

Brigit Dragonwing (Bozeman, Montana US) Age: 30


I voted for Gore, knowing that Montana was going to fall to Bush, in an act of "sympathetic magick". It doesn't look like it worked. Ah, well. Now I think it's time for one of them to take a longer view of things and concede. They're both starting to look like whiny kindergartners, and it's not flattering for either of them. I think that whoever takes the higher road and steps aside will be paid back in spades the next time around - the gridlock in Congress and the controversy over the final vote is going to help the winner be mostly ineffective anyway. While I think the majority of the country will possibly rally about whomever, at the worst they'll shrug and say "next time". It's Congress who is notorious for holding a grudge, and there's where the challenge will lie.

As for affecting Pagans, even if W. doesn't recognize Wicca (specifically) as a religion, the United States Courts do recognize it, and it is protected under the Constitution. As long as we remember that and are willing to fight for our rights, there shouldn't be much impact. We may have to be more vocal, but as Wren said, maybe it is time we started banding together. I, for one, am starting a campaign to unite the Pagans in my town.


Of Course I Voted!!! I Voted For Gore. I Think That A... Nov 15th. at 6:49:58 pm UTC

Tasha (Mansfield, Texas US) Age: 20 - Email


Of course I voted!!! I voted for Gore. I think that a manual recount is necessary to clear up all of this confusion, but that both Bush and Gore are going to far with the legal stuff surrounding it all. I think Bush should conceded; of course that is because I really don't want him to be president. I don't think that Bush can bring th ecountry together; after all of this, I dont' think that Gore can either. I thinkt hat we will soon be seeing a try at another amendment. One to get rid of the electoral college. I have this horrid gut feeling that Bush is going to win, and if he does, I think that we are all going to see our first amendment rights go right down the drain. This is the man that said that Wicca is not a valid religion a couple of years ago. It's bad enough that he is the govenor, but will we be able to deal with him being president? Gore on the other hand seems to value the first amendment. I really am doing a bad job of answering the ?, I think we really just need to wait and see how things play out.


I Did Vote And I Voted For Raplh Nader. I Wanted My... Nov 15th. at 6:59:18 pm UTC

Rick (San Diego, California US) Age: 26 - Email


I did vote and I voted for Raplh Nader. I wanted my vote to say that the time has come for a third, fourth, or even fifth party in politics. The two party is beyond corrupt and probably can't be salvaged. It doesn't matter which one wins, things will be pretty much the same. There will be some changes of course, but that is normal in this universe. In the end both parties will do whatever big business and the lobby folks say to do. As far as the winner bringing the rest of america online; that will just happen over time. Most americans are pretty apethitic toward politics and current events. So don't expect any trouble in that arena. It is a sad situation.


I Did Vote, And Have In Every Election Since I Turned 20... Nov 15th. at 9:29:36 pm UTC

Jim Goode (Dedham, Massachusetts US) Age: 30 - Email


I did vote, and have in every election since I turned 20. This time out I voted for Harry Browne for President. I watched two third-party candidate debates on c-span and his point of view was closest to my own. I am not out to legalize all drugs as he seems to, but the rest of his stand really stood out. I did not vote for Bush because of his religious views, and comments about Wicca especially. Gore has not shown himself to be anything but a populist, saying whatever he thought people wanted to hear without any real stand for anything himself. Nader chose not to participate in third-party debates when the big boys didn't let him play with them, which showed him to be something of a crybaby to me. Admittedly, he would have swept Gore and Bush off the stage if he had debated them, but he may not have fared so well against other candidates (especially H.Browne) who were more like Statesmen than Politicians, and yes I do believe there is a big difference between the two.


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