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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,872,853  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 263

Lurker/Post Ratio: 124 to 1

Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000

The Unresolved US Election

Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?

 Reponses:   There are 263 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Yes, I Voted. I Really Was Uneasy With Both Of The Major... Nov 15th. at 12:42:58 am UTC

Croisanna (Louisville, Kentucky US) Age: 48


Yes, I voted. I really was uneasy with both of the major party candidates; ultimately I voted for Bush. LOTE time. (Lesser of Two Evils). Bush makes me uneasy, but Gore scares the pitty-wot out of me.
I did not feel there were any other strong, viable candidates out there. We need new blood in the political field, but I doubt we will get many new, qualified people running for office with the political climate the way it is today.

Anyway, I work on the premise(as my mother always says): If you don't vote, don't bitch.


I Voted For Gore, Knowing That Montana Was Going To Fall To... Nov 15th. at 2:10:27 pm UTC

Brigit Dragonwing (Bozeman, Montana US) Age: 30


I voted for Gore, knowing that Montana was going to fall to Bush, in an act of "sympathetic magick". It doesn't look like it worked. Ah, well. Now I think it's time for one of them to take a longer view of things and concede. They're both starting to look like whiny kindergartners, and it's not flattering for either of them. I think that whoever takes the higher road and steps aside will be paid back in spades the next time around - the gridlock in Congress and the controversy over the final vote is going to help the winner be mostly ineffective anyway. While I think the majority of the country will possibly rally about whomever, at the worst they'll shrug and say "next time". It's Congress who is notorious for holding a grudge, and there's where the challenge will lie.

As for affecting Pagans, even if W. doesn't recognize Wicca (specifically) as a religion, the United States Courts do recognize it, and it is protected under the Constitution. As long as we remember that and are willing to fight for our rights, there shouldn't be much impact. We may have to be more vocal, but as Wren said, maybe it is time we started banding together. I, for one, am starting a campaign to unite the Pagans in my town.


Of Course I Voted!!! I Voted For Gore. I Think That A... Nov 15th. at 6:49:58 pm UTC

Tasha (Mansfield, Texas US) Age: 20 - Email


Of course I voted!!! I voted for Gore. I think that a manual recount is necessary to clear up all of this confusion, but that both Bush and Gore are going to far with the legal stuff surrounding it all. I think Bush should conceded; of course that is because I really don't want him to be president. I don't think that Bush can bring th ecountry together; after all of this, I dont' think that Gore can either. I thinkt hat we will soon be seeing a try at another amendment. One to get rid of the electoral college. I have this horrid gut feeling that Bush is going to win, and if he does, I think that we are all going to see our first amendment rights go right down the drain. This is the man that said that Wicca is not a valid religion a couple of years ago. It's bad enough that he is the govenor, but will we be able to deal with him being president? Gore on the other hand seems to value the first amendment. I really am doing a bad job of answering the ?, I think we really just need to wait and see how things play out.


I Did Vote And I Voted For Raplh Nader. I Wanted My... Nov 15th. at 6:59:18 pm UTC

Rick (San Diego, California US) Age: 26 - Email


I did vote and I voted for Raplh Nader. I wanted my vote to say that the time has come for a third, fourth, or even fifth party in politics. The two party is beyond corrupt and probably can't be salvaged. It doesn't matter which one wins, things will be pretty much the same. There will be some changes of course, but that is normal in this universe. In the end both parties will do whatever big business and the lobby folks say to do. As far as the winner bringing the rest of america online; that will just happen over time. Most americans are pretty apethitic toward politics and current events. So don't expect any trouble in that arena. It is a sad situation.


I Did Vote, And Have In Every Election Since I Turned 20... Nov 15th. at 9:29:36 pm UTC

Jim Goode (Dedham, Massachusetts US) Age: 30 - Email


I did vote, and have in every election since I turned 20. This time out I voted for Harry Browne for President. I watched two third-party candidate debates on c-span and his point of view was closest to my own. I am not out to legalize all drugs as he seems to, but the rest of his stand really stood out. I did not vote for Bush because of his religious views, and comments about Wicca especially. Gore has not shown himself to be anything but a populist, saying whatever he thought people wanted to hear without any real stand for anything himself. Nader chose not to participate in third-party debates when the big boys didn't let him play with them, which showed him to be something of a crybaby to me. Admittedly, he would have swept Gore and Bush off the stage if he had debated them, but he may not have fared so well against other candidates (especially H.Browne) who were more like Statesmen than Politicians, and yes I do believe there is a big difference between the two.


Of Course I Voted! Although Here In The Awful, Communist, People's Republic... Nov 16th. at 12:42:32 am UTC

Meridian (Worcester, Massachusetts US) Age: 18


Of course I voted! Although here in the awful, communist, People's Republic of Massachusetts, it doesn't really matter. I voted for Bush, because I have seen first hand what the horrors of government expansion can do to people. Plus I fear Gore would take away our most important rights; he scares the crap out of me. I also feel what is going on in Florida is nonsense. We already counted the votes, then we had a recount, now Gore wants another recount, this time done by human beings with biases and the potential for great error, whether they mean to cheat or not, and I'm sure they do. The Gore people are trying to steal this election. Bush has won, the absentee ballots will only increase his lead. Recounting ballots because some people are too stupid to get it right only WEAKENS our democracy, because we send a message that the law can be corrupted, bent, and screwed six ways to Sunday on the basis of technicalities, but only if you have expensive lawyers. The power of lawyers needs to be reigned in, this is yet another example of it. Litigation is replacing legislation as a way to correct problems, when problems don't even exist and people get hurt in the process. Both sides need to agree to accept the results. NO nore lawsuits, no more recounts.


Well All Here Is A Wonderful Little Letter That Is Flying About... Nov 16th. at 3:37:13 am UTC

Michael (Dublin, European Union, Ireland) Age: 23 - Email


Well all here is a wonderful little letter that is flying about here in Europe, it is very funny (don't be insulted if you are american), and it lends a breath of fresh air to the old election debate:

NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE

To the citizens of the United States of America,

In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed".

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf.

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "sh*t".

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.

10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

*Very* Best Regards from the Homeland

(Hope it puts a smile on your face)


Living In Florida, I Feel As Though I Were On A Microscope... Nov 16th. at 11:10:46 am UTC

Orion (Miami, Florida US) Age: 29 - Email


Living in Florida, I feel as though I were on a microscope slide. I had no dificulty picking a candidate, or puzzling out a ballot. What I did have difficulty was stomaching the absolute revulsion I felt as I poked a hole in the ballot. Never in my life have I felt less about a set of candidates, and the Indecision 2000 election finale is a fiting end to a disgusting campaign. No one inspired me, and I voted for Gore as I held my nose. The only things that swayed me for Gore was 1) Bush, when asked about Kosovo, replied that he'd need a map to know how to respond 2) Bush's comments about minority religions and Wicca in particular 3) Any vote that wasn't for Gore in my state was for Bush..even though I am a huge supporter of Harry Browne and the Libertarian platform.

Never in my life could I imagine that after the Elian Gonzales debacle that my state, particularly my part of my state would be the center of this kind of attention again. *sigh* A re-vote is impossible, and a recount will still give a split decision so frankly I think Florida should abstain from the Electroal College vote on 18 Dec. It's the only logical decision.

As far as the Pagan implications? I don't hink there are any. The US is in a state of factionalization anyway, and this election is the expression of that, but I don't think it will greatly impact positively or negatively on pagan issues any more than it would impact non-pagans. Good luck to us though..whatever the outcome we'll need it!


I Voted For Gore. The Person That I Really Wanted To Vote... Nov 16th. at 12:30:28 pm UTC

Adelheide Gustav (Champaign, Illinois US) Age: 25


I voted for Gore. the person that I really wanted to vote for was Nader, but with the election being so close, I didn't want my vote to end up going to Bush. Personally, I think Bush is being the biggest whiner of the bunch. He's an even bigger asshole than his father after all this mess. When the electoral college votes, I hope that they see what an immature, self-centered, and monarchial candidate he is and select Gore as the winner. According to the USA Today, there are several ways this election can turn out. 1-Bush 2-Gore 3-Hastert (Speaker of the House, IL) 4-? 5? (I didn't get to read the article because I was at work and they were all gone by the time I got off.) I think the 4th was Lott. . . . I really feel that Bush would try to disengage the people from their liberties. As it is, we have legalized serfdom with corporations handing out little bits of treats to the workers while the fat cats get rich and support those in government that would allow them to get away with as much as possible. (Environmental concerns, health and safety for employees, poisoning food and water with addititives, etc.) Sigh. Now I'm just ranting. . . . gore was the lesser of the two likely evils. I really wanted Nader.

Gore, if he does get office, won't like Paganism any more than Bush, but I thnk he'll be less likely to instigate hunts for 'the "subversives" that are destroying America.' (Quotation marks are mine.) He'll just leave us alone and merde in his pants if he finds out that any of his top aides or interns is Pagan.

In the long run, I think Gore will come out the better for it, whether or not he's elected. Bush, if he gets the presidency, will be kicked out in 4 years and will have to hide to keep the angry mobs off of him. Neither will be able to do much good. (Though Clinton, with the demographics in the Senate and the House, has done better than what I've heard was anticipated.)

I will offer Barbara Bush a bitter congratulatory message. She will be the second woman in history to have been married to a President and given birth to one. (The other one being Abigail Adams.)


Well, This Is Quite The Situation Here In The Us With Our... Nov 16th. at 6:12:29 pm UTC

Dian E. Ericksen (Lakewood, Colorado US) Age: 37 - Email


Well, this is quite the situation here in the US with our Election. Yes, I did vote and I voted for Ralph Nader, who has been the scapgoat of the Democrats. Why? Because I am tired of the same stuff from both of our major parties and because I think that it is time that people started standing up for what they believe in, not just voting for the 'lessor of two evils'. I really feel that at this point, it matters very little which of the contenders becomes president. Neither will have an easy job uniting the country and overcoming the feeling that he 'stole' the job from the other candidate. If this election has taught us anything as pagans, it should be that EVERY vote counts and it is very important for us to all get out there and cast our votes for the candidate of our choice. I really feel that this situation has re-established the importance of being involved in the political process. We fought a war so that we would have the freedom to vote for how and by who we were governed, please let us start exercising that right again. Next time, let us all get out and vote!


Of Course I Voted For Gore. I'm A Political Science Major. As... Nov 16th. at 7:06:02 pm UTC

Sepra (Phoenix, Arizona US) Age: 21


Of course I voted for Gore. I'm a Political Science Major. As one, I did want to clear a couple of things up though:

1. The need to vote for someone not of the two parties. Perfectly acceptable, but just as long as you do it for a good reason. Like giving the Green Party (who are socialist, I must add) 5% so they can get funding. But a multi-party system is better that a two-party system? No way. It's actually a statistical fact that multi-party systems are less stable. Look at Italy.

2. Neither candidate will take away our rights. There will be no loss of our First Amendment rights. Ans as for those worried about the Supreme Court: Nixon appointed the judge that ruled in favor of Roe. The fact is is that all justices are wild cards.

3. As for the recount: it's absolutely necessary. When your majority is less than the margin of error, it would be wrong on both sides not to do 5 recounts. So no one is really whining, they are just asking for their due.

4. As for the electoral college: well, we can't fudge like we did in the past because of the unique position we're in, but it's still in the Constitution. If we scoff at one part of that document, we are scoffing at all the rights it affords us. Maybe it does need to be changed, but it will be after this, and there will be an amendment. Which I doubt will happen.

5. Neither Al or Dubya are fools. Not a whole lot of personality, but neither did Wilson, and he was ok. I just felt that with Gore's senatorial experiance along with his greater knowledge of both foreign and domestic issues, he would be the better man for the job.

6. As for Wicca, nothing will happen. Come on people, we survived Ronald Reagan! Remember?
(excerpt from Old Time Religion - 80's version):
Don't vote for Ronald Reagan
He's too square to be a Pagan
Let's all vote for Carl Sagan!
He's good enough for me!

BB :)


I Did Not Vote In This Presidential Election. I Could Not Choose... Nov 16th. at 7:06:09 pm UTC

Firesprite (Pendleton, Indiana US) Age: 33


I did not vote in this presidential election. I could not choose "the less or two evils". How can I elected a man to lead my country if I wouldn't even trust him to handle my personal finances. I am sick of Republicans and Democrats, I think "professional politicians should be outlawed. I'm ready to go back to the way it was meant to be - you know, the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker.


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