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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,198,859  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Dont Worry Malakai! Mar 24th. at 9:47:44 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


Im sure the Iraqi soilders will treat them under the Geneva convention, following the fine example shown by your own country at Guantanamo Bay!
Skeggi


Sorry Skeggi Mar 24th. at 10:06:43 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


I don't recall us shooting soldiers execution style and then video taping the others while interrogating them and putting it on CNN. But if you have the article to prove otherwise, PLEASE feel free to send it to me. If you do find one though, I can provide upteen sources from many places to prove otherwise. I don't see where your claim has base.


No But Mar 24th. at 10:15:47 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


No but then people dont just die from suspected beatings, keeping people in uncomfortable positions for hours is torture nad how long can your police department hold you without laying a charge?
Yet under some loop hole or another men whose only crimes seem to be taking up arms to defend their own country against American aggression, could well face years in tiny makeshift cells with no chance of a hearing. Tortured humanely and quietly dieing when the interveiw goes wrong or on too long.
Also as for videoing captured soilders the west did it first, showing both Iraqi deserters, POWs and causualties. The west wanted to show the iraqi people a disloyal army fleeing and surrendering, well it back fired. Now you get to see American POWs and casualties, fairs fair.
Skeggi


Why War? Mar 24th. at 10:38:45 pm UTC

Ever (Florida) Age: 15 - Email


I believe that to an extent, war may be necessary. I don't like it or approve of it, but I admit that a bit may be necessary. I especially do not approve of the way the war was started. I am no Bush fan, and find it ironic that the two people that people mainly want to kill, or at least get rid of (Sadaam and Bush) , seem to show no signs of going out to fight themselves. I really wish that The UN could have stuck to the time limits they gave Sadaam, and decided on a resolution. I would have preferd being a part of the UN in solving this, rather than going against them. I support the men and women serving our contry, because they are doing what they believe is right, and most of us have, or know someone who has a loved one who's serving our country.
I believe that both pro- and anti-war demonstrations are a reasonable excercise of our freedom of speech. Expressing yourself in very important, and as long as it doesn't become violent (yes, that sounds ironic when discussing war) , it is acceptable in my opinion. I can't really speak on the feelings between sides, because I have friends who disagree with my stand and we still are friends, and I know people who think I am anit-American because I am anti-war.
I do not feel that the suspending of our liberties is doing an equal amount of good. I feel that to an extent, protection is important, but I know a lot of people who are afraid to voice their anti-Bush or anti-war thoughts because they're afraid they'll be arrested as terrorists. It may seem amusing, but when people feel threatened because of theire opinions, then suspension of liberties has gone too far!
Overall, the war in Iraq is worrisome to me and many of my friends. The innocent lives at risk, even just one, is too many! The war is causing conflict not only in America and Iraq, but everywhere. Are we supposed to substitute the word "French" with Freedom. Yes! Someone decided that French fries are now Freedom Fries! Do we also eat Freedom toast? Or do we Freedom kiss? (let's not try to interperate THAT one!) Many of my friends and I are constantly worried that this could lead into a bigger war, potentially World War III. Many condescending adults pat us on the heads and say "Of course not! Don't worry your little heads. You can't understand" Well, guess what. We do understand. We understand that we're the ones who will be drafted, and that we're the oones who will have to clean up the mess that the war is only adding onto. If I am ranting and raving, I apologize. Everyone has their own opinions. Well, now you know mine.


Fair Is Fair When The Situations Are Comparable Mar 24th. at 10:51:53 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Do you think the people of Afghanistan are sad that the taliban is gone? do you think the world is sad hitler is gone? NO. Who had to step in to ensure they were gone? NOT NEW ZEALAND. The US media has not to my knowledge shown casualties on tv due to this thing that we call the FCC that prohibits alot of it. We did not violate the geneva convention by showing the Iraqi soldiers defecting. That is not included in the articles of the geneva convention, perhaps I could get the articles for you and send them to you. We have been watching that closely, alternatively you are not getting the same news we get here in the states and I have been glued to the american as well as arab news since this started. due to the fact that what I am doing in conjunction with ex-Iraqi soldiers/ citizens that are currently helping the UN and the US in developing a new democratic parliment for the Iraqi people. What are you doing to bring about a solution to this problem? It is not ment accusingly, I am genuinely curious! These people are not being inhumanely kept. as far as being an enemy combatant, If we play the game of conspiracy theory and we had matial law everywhere. you think it will stop at the US? doubtful.

War is war, yes, but one wrong does not make a right. and if you aren't at guantanamo you don't know what is going on there. if you really are that interested/worried in finding out their welfare. might I suggest going to cuba to find out.


NOT SURE Mar 24th. at 11:30:14 pm UTC

listeningwolf (Michigan) Age: 38 - Email


I'm not sure IF this war IS right or wrong.I just KNOW that people are dying left and right!??!! I KNOW I HATE how OUR PEOPLE ARE BEING TREATED. I'm NOT sure what makes a war ok or not???? The GOV? THE PEOPLE ???? I just know that MOST did NOT want to go to war BUT NOW that we HAVE we have NO CHOICE BUT TO HOPE OUR BOYS and GIRLS get home SAFELY!! I'm VERY ANGRY that this has come to this!!! I'm also ANGRY that Russia FELT it was OK to send the IRAQ'S the SAME weapons that WE HAVE ASKED THEM NOT TO!!!!!!!!!!!! VIA CONTRACT WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya know they talk about the USA "sticking it's nose where it don't belong" WHAT ABOUT THIS?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HMMMMMMMMMMMM makes me think why did the FRENCH, Germany, Russia, China NOT WANT A PART IN THIS WAR??????ARE THEY GIVING MORE AMMO THEN WE ARE AWARE????? BEING A CIVIL I'm NOT PRIVY TO THIS INFO!!! BUT IT SURE IS LOOKING THAT WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FIND THIS BS BIG TIME !!! WHAY's NEXT N KOREA??? HELLO WE STILL HAVE ANOTHER WAR GOING ON REMEMBER?????? DOES ANY BODY REMEMBER BINNY BOY??????????? I think we're going to be spreading ourselves VERY thin in the months to come................ LW


Not New Zealand Mar 24th. at 11:37:31 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


Lets look at the fundimental differences between Afghanastan and Iraq, the UN. PS NZ troops were there. Also NZ was fighting Hitler when America was pretending it was a little war in Europe that didnt involve them. I would challenge you to find a country that made more impact person for person than NZ.
Funny casulaties have been shown by CNN outside of the states, wonder why?
Also remember your in this with Britain, remember those ones your troops keep killing by accident, and they have shown far more than your tv stations.
You do not address my concerns about the treatment of POWS in Cuba. The funny thing is no one knows what is going on there. Is it still one rule for the US and one for the rest of the world.
New Zealand has the courage to back the UN against the US, because it is the right thing to do, not because they support Saddam.
Why do Iraqis fight, and fight well? Because it is THEIR country and Saddam is THeir problem Not yours. The UN's but not yours.
America is the aggressor, responsible for every death in this war and in the blood bath that will follow it.
Skeggi


War: Not Now, Not Ever Mar 25th. at 12:41:35 am UTC

MBW (California) Age: 51 - Email


In my lifetime I have lived to see too many wars. Korea, VietNam, Gulf and now Iraq. Wars have always been a part of my life. I have never ceased to become angry with the concept that war and killing will bring peace. It just does not happen that way!!! No country has ever proven to be better off after being "saved" by another country. This is not a reality. Unfortunately, governments do not seem to grasp that concept.

For many years I have marched in protest of war. This war is no different. As we destroy human life with "smart" bombs and bullets we also destroy our souls. As our leaders choose to involve our countries in legal acts of murder known as "war" we as spiritual beings die as well. The souls of those who have suffered and died continue to touch our lives as we walk this plane of life. They cry out to us to protest and use any legal means available to us to stop the killing. If you listen, you can hear them. So, I am marching one more time in protest. I pray with all my soul that this will be the last time I will have to march but somewhere inside my being, I am doubtful. After all, governments do not really fight wars. We the individual people of our world are all too willing to do that for them.

As we erode away our civil liberties in the name of "security", we have stripped individuals of their right to exist side by side. It has happened so gradually that we hardly recognize it for what it is: Discrimination, Bigotry and Hate. When we suspend civil liberties, we allow legalized discrimination and bigotry into our daily lives and hate begins to grow. Was it not our elected government officials who told us that the fight for freedom from Discrimination, Bigotry and Hate was the basis for this war to begin with?

This war must stop!!! At some point future generations must be taught that there is another way. This a fight worth undertaking. This is a fight that we as individuals can win. The greatest gift we can give to our future is the gift of peace.


US Is Responsible? Mar 25th. at 1:09:51 am UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


NZ was fighting Hitler when America was pretending it was a little war in Europe that didnt involve them?!?! WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO FOR YOU?! we get dammned by you when we stay out of it? and damned if we get involved?! And you say it is one rule for us and one rule for the rest of the world? Either way, NZ troops have been the significant fighting force of which wars? I realize that we have more troops and better weapons and are a global superpower I AM SO SORRY. how horrible for YOU. and as far as Afghanistan and NZ, NZ currently has NO army OR navy deployment in Afghanistan, and air force you ask? This is NZ's total air force:

The RNZAF has:
2 Boeing 727s,
5 C-130H Hercules,
6 P3-K Orions,
14 Bell UH-1H Iroquois,
5 Bell 47G Sioux,
13 Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainer,
and 5 Beech King Air B200.
Total of 50 aircraft

The Entire Military Personel Composition in NZ (including Reg. forces, special ops, and civilian staff) totals 26, 378 with a potential of up to 1 million if a draft was imposed. (est. 2002) NZ lost 10, 000 troops in WW2 compared to 292, 000 US soldiers. WE know what loss is and don't want it anymore than you do. I am so tired of the US being called the "white satan" We have changed alot since then and have come a long way as well! This internet site and this forum is living proof of that.

I have to think that you would have checked your facts before being so grandiose about such statements. We are the main protective force in the world and have been either hassled into or felt the NEED (not want) to be involved in ALL of the major wars since the industrial revolution. In WW2, the NZ airforce was used to help train the british and was not mainly used for actual combat. Of the 131, 000 graduates from New zealands air force, only 7002 were actually from New zealand. All the rest were allied troops from other countries. I am not trying to downplay what they did, Your country gave what they could. But don't try to so quickly dismiss our losses for wars gone by. Russia I give some slack to cause of the fact that their country has not only been turned inside out, but also lost 50 times as many troops in WW2 than any other country and the next 2 were England and the US. It truly saddens me to see people so hostile towards the US and their actions considering how much of the world we ARE involved in due to technology as well as financial wealth and food supplies. You sound like someone yelling about the man bringing them down. Which only makes me laugh.


Mind Not Changed Mar 25th. at 2:05:27 am UTC

Belisamasana (Wausau, Wisconsin) Age: 33 - Email


My mind hasn't changed. Although war is devastating, I'm behind it 100%. What I'm worried about most is what our troops are going to encounter once they reach the outskirts of Baghdad. Is the ring around the city booby-trapped? There have been small groups of resistance, resulting in the capture, torture, and execution of some of our troops. Where are the chemical weapons? I believe they are IN Baghdad, in the hands of Saddams Medina Division Republican Guard, waiting for the arrival of our troops. I personally believe that Saddam is seriously injured, if not dead, along with his sons. His public address today was edited 65 times, and made no mention of the POW's, and he praised the commander of the 11th Iraqi Brigade in Basra, who surrendered along with many of his troops in the early hours of the war. I hope that his crumbling regime falls apart fast enough, because our troops should be there within a day.

A few words about protestors. They have the right to express their views, but the cost of police protection, not to mention the time involved protecting, is a waste. The police have more important things to worry about than some protestor getting in the way of traffic. If the protestors are against the war, then get off the streets and volunteer with the local Red Cross. Don't you think your time spent there would be a better choice? I'm immune to the protestors anyway. We have a few here that I ignore, and I pay no attention to them on television. The protests are not going to stop the war. The war is on. Instead of wasting time standing around shouting, or quietly standing and marching, VOLUNTEER your time!

And a reminder......

It is the Soldier,
not the reporter who has given us freedom of press

It is the Soldier,
not the poet who has given us freedom of speech

It is the Soldier,
not the campus organizer who gives us freedom to demonstrate

It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves beneath the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Father Dennis Edward O'Brien


AMEN!!!!!! Mar 25th. at 3:39:56 am UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


I thank you for that! and I am relieved to see that post and that end part is SOOO true! thank you!

BB


Absolutely Not... Mar 25th. at 5:18:19 am UTC

chip (tn) Age: 32 - Email


i still view this as an abomination....i only hope that some day i can forgive the u.s. government....sorry, but i completely agree with the rest of the world on this one....and if this "pro-life", born-again christian, draft-dodger gets another term, i just may find somewhere else to live that's peaceful....this administration has ripped any american pride i had away with its mis-use of power and extreme greed....


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