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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 20,621,818  

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Question of the Week: 84 - 11/10/2002

Between the Veils: What Did You See?

In the times of the thinning veils, did you look into the past or the future? What did you see?

What forms of divination do you use? Do you have an unusual technique that you would like to tell us about?

Have you had some (or all) of the things that you divined in the past come true? What is the most profound insight that you gained through divination? Do you think that the future is fixed or can it be changed?

 Reponses:   There are 80 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

Events Both Major And Minor, As Well As Shared! Nov 14th. at 10:46:59 am EST

Nothing (Columbia) Age: 23 - Email

Most of my 'divination' and forseeing comes to me in vivid dreams. I can tell the difference between these prophetic dreams and normal ones usually because the prophetic are INCREDIBLY vivid, not just realistic like many normal dreams, but seemingly tagged with a huge neon "I'M FOR REAL LOOK AT ME AND REMEMBER" sign. It's like remembering the future. Very odd. Through experience, I have learned to trust them. Every dream so tagged has come to pass. Sometimes in symbols and many times word for word, action for action....clothes, time of day, weather, conversations, everything happened precisely with the dream. Anyway, a co-worker and I both had dreams that in hindsight probably pertained to 9/11. It was disturbing. More recently, I have had visions of a wolf. It would present itself to me in a snowy wood and always looked the same and the vision would end with the wolf in the same pose, his stormy green eyes gazing though me. Then I met a man. His eyes were the exact same color as the wolfs. I chalked it up to coincidence. Then he showed me his journal where he wrote his most powerful and personal poems and thoughts. On the guessed it. A wolf, same color, same pose, in the same snowy wood looking right through me. I took the hint, and now he and I are getting married and I've never been happier. I have learned to trust the 'smacks upside the head' that whatever powers that be have been giving me lately. I was a biiiiig skeptic a few years ago. Now, I have no doubts.

Blessed New Year! Nov 14th. at 11:53:55 am EST

Varda (CA) Age: 42 - Email

A deep journey beyond the Veil seems to work best for me as a pathworking--- what begins as a visualization of going to the Crone's Great Hall, the Isle of Apples, or the Summerlands, etc. I can come before Her and receive a message, and I've been fortunate some seasons to meet with a loved one who is in Her realm. My group often does a "dumb supper" (dumb as in not speaking, though we do anyway!) after our gather on Samhain, where we set a place at the table for those we love who have gone before, so that they might join us and feast.

For me, divination is more about serious self-reflection than predicting the future--- I see the future as being similar to a wheel, where we are always at the center, and have many paths or "spokes" to choose from. I think the center and the spokes available change with every choice made, so it seems like there is a limit to how much predicting we can do with our mortal mental limits! Maybe that image works for me because I am easily confused anyway! : >

I have to reply to Danielle also, as many have. I am a Gardnerian Witch, and I just need to say that her posting is virtually all nonsense. She has enough tidbits from the Tradition, though, to make me feel sorry for the folks who trained her, if any-- they must be so embarassed! Gardnerians deserve a lot of the teasing we've gotten about our love of secrecy and claims of being the ancient. true path--- most of that died out in the 70's, thank the Gods. (We certainly do believe and practice ethics, btw) The reality is, however, that there are as many paths to the Gods as there are Witches and Pagans, which is as it should be--- none of us want a "pope" or anything like it! My Tradition does work with a set of fairly consistent Rites and Practices, which work well for me, so I remain in the Tradition. For anyone, however, to claim that they have something "better" than anyone else puts them squarely in the evangelical christian mold, in my opinion. And that rigid path is certainly easier than one of self-transformation and development.

I Did Want To Say... Nov 14th. at 3:03:26 pm EST

lilith (los angeles) Age: 33 - Email

i was a little bogged down in my last post on this thread, so i wanted to add something pertinent to the question.

i often dream things that will happen or have happened. i too can always tell the difference between that kind of dream and just a regular dream. there is something intensely particular about an actual divinatory dream. unfortunately, much like any form of divination, there is not always a clear cut message, or one that we can understand at the time.

to wit-- my last vivid vision was of a bloody baby sitting on the pillow in my bed next to me. i was looking at her thinking my god, is that real? because it was so intense and so physically real i could smell her and the blood, and she was looking straight at me.

now i had no idea what that dream/vision/visitation meant until last night, and even so im not entirely sure it was a message so much as a "heads up". but i do believe she showed up for a particular reason, and i am pretty sure last night had something to do with it. [incidentally, for anyone who cares, i didnt suddenly have a miscarraige or anything that obvious.]

even my tarot cards will at times babble on about something and i read them and they tell a fairly plain story only it seems to have absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING pertinent in my life, and then three months later something will happen and i will realize the cards foretold it, but i was not in the place where i could see what they were talking about.

all im trying to say by this, and its a little more personal than i usually like to make my posts, but what i am saying is, divination is a great thing, and i enjoy tarot and my dreams, even the distrurbing ones-- but it has limitations, often set by one's own mind or the circumstances of life. i dont believe all things are predestined, but i do believe in the fates, and sometimes we catch glimpses of things and are privileged to know and understand them, and other times we see something and dont understand it at all. so what i see between the veils is not always relevant in the true sense of the term, but i do like to peep anyhow.

The Future Nov 14th. at 5:57:48 pm EST

Robert (Harrisburg, Pa.) Age: 49 - Email

My divinations come in post-anxiety-attack dreams. It's a rough way to go, but worth it. I always see the future and have realised time and again that our future is absolutely NOT WRITTEN. As another poster-author said does give its warnings and we must heed them. Choices we make in present time determine our future and that is why the word CHOICE comes from another realm. It is one of those few words that inverted and held before a mirror still reads "choice". When I see the is not just my future, but yours as spins its variables like the proverbial wheel of fortune...with only our choices to determine where the wheel stops. It is the variables that I see..and it helps me make wise decisions. I am still alive and nuturing my earth and my brothers and sisters. I love you all. Peace be yours.

What I Know Was There Was More Powerful Than . . . Nov 14th. at 6:54:34 pm EST

Maeve Anadria (Riverside) Age: 23 - Email

I will have to say I am a little nervous posting, since the last 3 years in the pagan community there has been alot of rude people and nasty looks from other pagans. But oh well, I won't be successful as I am today without jumping out there and taking risks :)

Where I live it is full of woody enviroment and all my nieghbors are 'country' liven and pretty relaxed to what beliefs that I have so I am able to pray and worship the mother outdoors. There was a feeling of other there - like the past was mingling with the present. But it had that feeling of someone that was taken from America and slammed in Paris. They felt that they just didnt belong feeling. We had upset animals and other "odd" things. I swore I saw the last owner of my mother's house (whom we cared for in her last years) cooking in the kitchen.

After the celebrated holiday - I thought I saw this older woman walking down a really dangerous busy street with no side walks or anything like the such (Limonite Ave goes over the 15 freeway) who use to walk there all the time. My mother and I would see her while driving around and working, pick her up and take her home. After time, she never was there anymore. But I think I saw her again. I went to pull over and get of the car and start walking in the dark to her. She wasnt there. I thought I was going to cry - knowing that old woman might have passed away.

My lab dog whom I rescued some years ago - and passed away 1 year ago was barking in the yard at my mothers while I was staying the night there with my son. To make it funny I got up and yelled out the window "BUBBA IT IS OK!" before I got what I was doing.

Nothing I think out the normal for those that open their minds and know the world around them. But for sure a time to remember, those saying Hello again - or for the last time.

Touched In The Most Interesting Way!!! Nov 14th. at 10:36:13 pm EST

Aeval (Michigan) Age: 45 - Email

Merry Meet! I am Aeval from Michigan. The first week of October, I had gone out to Riverside, CA to visit with my sister.We had planned a sort of "spooky", fun, halloween ( Samhain for me) themed week. Every night we visited the local cemetary, hoping to make contact with some of those interred there.Not only did the digital photos show lots of orbs, but the tape recordings include the voices, however faint, of the spirits.

One thing in particular that sticks in my mind, is headstone of a small child that we were standing at, and admiring his picture. Suddenly, I picked up the very strong aroma of men's cologne. It had a real "green" smell to it.We asked if the smell was connected to the small boy, my sister thought maybe he liked to wear his dad's cologne or something.Later, on the tape, we hearda voice say "it's not my name". The smell came and went a couple times, then followed us back to the car. I said " You cannot come home with us".

A couple of weeks after returning home, I smelled the cologne again while I was in my room. It's happened twice now. I don't think the spirit is a malevolent one, just lonely.

Slightly Scary Definatly Hairy Nov 14th. at 10:47:12 pm EST

Caitanya Darshan (Fairburn GA) Age: 28 - Email

Most often it has been in sleep that the viel has been thinest for me. A woman once told me that I was projecting in some of my dreams and that that kind of dream walking without training or intence pactice was dangerious. Hey I am just glad that it still happens at all, and that when I chose to assert myself I know that I can and am strong enough to do so.
One of the dreams was about my former familiar. I have dreamed several times of her and there she is perfect healthy and fine, haveing kittens of all things. I know that it sort of isn't a dream and that she is there haveing little witch kittens in the realm that she is in. I guess they get thier insides back after getting fixed and going there. Of corse seeing that girl who
looked remarkably like I might have if I was tall and thinner and had dark hair.....Daughter? Pretty to think so.
Like the one I woke from this morning. Just a big lovable dog that looked something like a wolf with silken hair. I knew his name in the dream but couldn't remember it untill I woke ....Never had a animal like that before as a pet am not sure now if I would like it or not.
The odd dreams like drowning baby rats that I somehow want to save and do and snakes trying to strike me. I just let that go. May mean something may be a metafor and I know that my brain dumped tons of horrific stuff after watching Saving Private Ryan the other night. Gross.

I have dreampt about people that I don't know Like tha blue Haired Chick at Dragon Con that I saw and never spoke to and she and I both seamed to recognize each other and still didn't speak in the dream. Next year I am saying hello just to see what happens.
The most desterbing thing happened last year; it was something from the other side of the viel, that only my familiars could protect me from.
When my father died this summer I knew it and though noone ever called to let me know that he was gone I still knew. and did nothing untill the pantry door open again and again by its self untill I told it to get out. Dead people can be such a pain.

Blessed Be )0(

Caitanya Darshan

Sight Nov 14th. at 11:55:13 pm EST

Appleluna (Palm Desert,CA USA) Age: 27 - Email

I have learned many forms of divination. When I was first introduced to the Caft and magick in general I was always diving to see the past. I wanted to know about my past lives and past in this life. Now ten years later I focus more on the future. I have had much success with scrying. Even looking in to flames i can see the pictures, the silent movie sort of speak. I have made some very wise decisions by consulting the runes or tarot, by listening and accepting the message given. I believe we all have a destiny but we have different paths we may take in order to arrive there.

Extended Samhain Nov 15th. at 12:44:27 am EST

Katie Collins (St. Louis, MO) Age: 23 - Email

For me, Samhain practically started days before the 31st(the 28th perhaps), and it wound down to a close by the 2nd. I didn't use tarot or crystal ball. I didn't scry. I didn't use runes. My visions and dreams sometimes run together. Other times not of course, that only seems logical, but anyways.

The Vision (2):

A middle-aged man of dirty blondish hair trained an army of men who wore black and whose faces were painted white and black around the eyes nose and mouth, depicting themselves as the dead. They moved from building to building in metropolitan areas, taking out unsuspecting victims left and right. I had a feeling there could be an attack on Samhain when I saw this.

Somewhere in a cafe late at night, over some coffee and cigarettes, two older men talked about things which used to be and things that were no longer. They conversed on into the night about how killings of that nature used to go on with guns and drugs, or for guns and drugs, but also for money. And now, one man mentioned, "its done out of sheer joy." Somewhere it was cold and rainy outside the window of the cafe where two middle-aged men shared a conversation about assassins.

The Dream:
It came through very strangely, like a continuation of a vision I had had of assassins whose faces were painted to resemble the dead. Everywhere I went were the dead folk. In office buildings to cemetaries, but were not as zombies. They just were as ghosts exist. And it was as if they were everywhere I went too. I saw so many of them, and I remember talking with them but I don't remember what was said.

Another Vision, this was more like a descent across the veil and into the otherworld. It was very real as if I was there.. because I was. It was an Astral journey.

Everything was heavy as I lay quietly. I moved heavily among others, and slowly became very small. The blades of grass towered over me. Humans were like giants. I flew off of this world and to another. In deep space, I came to a place of the brightest green grass and bluest skies. To a castle I came. It was deep in a forest and it almost spiralled with wonder. A king I came to, with white hair and a great love in his heart. He said most of his subjects were winged. They carried messages across the worlds. He had wanted me there for a job. I was supposed to look over the maps and familiarize myself with the kingdom because a thief was afoot who must not be allowed to escape.

I shot over to a pass leading outside the kingdom, a hidden one, where I came across one unwinged one who was very learned of his surroundings. I hadn't seen him in a long time. And as we came close, he held me close in his arms. I don't remember his name, but I knew what he was to me.

The king had a daughter, who he would eventually hand the kingdom down to, but she was incapable of defending it on her own, so his doubts rooted there. The youth had wings, the elders did not. They were a type of winged-elf or faerie, I am not quite sure. The king, his name began with an A. I do not remember it.

Reading the map revealed in the center of the courtyard a great fountain. On either side the royalty sat for feasts and occasions. Their thrones were very ornately detailed. There were four main stations surrounding the great fountain. They were like ballista or watch towers. I started to see it drift from my view, the castle, and then all i could see was the planet in the stars. And somehow I was thrust back there where I later noticed a gate that led to the hidden pass, through a garden.

That was my Samhain.

Havent Had Too Many Experiences Of Divination. Nov 15th. at 7:43:22 am EST

Bignastydragon (NW England) Age: 18 - Email

i agree with Zoe, just gotta be said there.
most of my visions through the veil so far have been concentrated on the past. Most of my divinations either havent come true yet or wont come true, it matters not, with each one i gain experience and can divine easier. i mostly use my runes for this, and am trying to find out as much about runes as possible and use intuition to find the relevant info.
the future is already decided, we cannot change it, yet the only way we can know what it is, is through divination, which is often ambiguous, thats my opinion anyway.

Did The Dead Wake? Nov 15th. at 11:47:25 am EST

Katherine Rhys (IL) Age: 20 - Email

My best friend and I held a 'candlelit ghost walk' (a la 'Ghosts of Gettysburg')at the college where I attend on Samhain. We told stories and had a good time. Afterwards, however, was when the fun began. We went out to some local "haunted sites" and got took some photographs and basically felt around. I'm sensitive to, well for lack of a better word, ghosts, and not only did I see some interesting phenomena, we got some excellent pics of both orbs and ectoplasm. And it didn't stop on Samhain. The entire weekend was bursting with spirit energy. It was exciting and wonderful to experience.

As a note to Danielle (everyone else is putting in their two cents, so why not me): If you're going to talk about the *faeries*, as if you are an expert, use the names by which they were known rather than the generic term faeries. The most well known proper names are: in Wales, the Tylwyth Teg; and in Ireland, the Daoine Sidhe or Tuatha De Dannan. And, as in most ancient cultures (you didn't mention if there was any particular regional belief structure you're focusing on, by the way), they could be either benevolent or malevloent (the Scots terms Seelie and Unseelie differentiated, read Tam Lin and Thomas the Rhymer to best illustrate the differences). Stories are told of the Sidhe interbreeding with humans, producing children with characteristics of both. Also, the Sidhe did not ride *with* the Wild Hunt, they *were* the Wild Hunt, led by various individuals, depending on the county and region (the most popular being Herne the Hunter) And lastly, when you compare deities, credibility is far more advanced if you use the same amount of apples vs. oranges. In one of your examples, you used five different names for the major goddess, and only three of so-called minor godesses (of which you used two from the same traditon, and the third matched none of the traditions of your *major* names.) Not only did you contradict yourself, you did so badly, which is doubly unforgivably. Be a so-called REAL WITCH if you wish... but leave intelligent argument to the scholars.

Ok, I've had my rant, and my pedantic attention to detail (being a history major does that to a person, sorry). Bigotry does not stand well with me, but bigotry and stupidity combined are even worse. Faith bashing is a sign of a closed mind. Remember what Serendipity (the Muse) said in DOGMA- "It doesn't matter what you have faith in, just so long as you have faith."

Sigh..The World Keeps Turning But Nothing Ever Changes...... Nov 15th. at 11:52:31 am EST

GrayWolf (canada) Age: 49 - Email

As for the Idiot:
Wow a real rabid Grungie-Bunnie, Danielle must be pitied for the total idiocy of its beliefs.
But it shows that nothing much has changed from the 50.

As for the real question:
Much and nothing, visions of old, long departed friends drifted up in the trance state.
Once again reminding me of my mortality, and the short span allotted on this plane.

The time here is to brief to spend it arguing and quarrelling.

Whatever path you choose is right for you, no matter what anyone else says.

Blessed Be.

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