Your browser does not support script

Pagan Perspectives

Weekly Question

Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

Views: [32,767]
Responses: [2,666]

The Rules
Note: The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.

For Further
Visit The

WitchVox List
of 242
'Net Sites:

Chat Boards
Email Lists
IRC Channels

Past Questions
112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

111. So, You’re Dead. Now What? - [59]

110. What’s Your Favorite Element? - [119]

109. The Broom Closet Revisited: What’s Your Current Occupancy Rate? - [129]

108. Do You Speak Pagan Geek? - [38]

107. Would You Be A Good ‘Reality Show’ Contestant? - [49]

106. What Is Your Inner Animal? - [127]

105. Are Pagans TOO Individualistic? - [56]

104. Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq? - [258]

103. What Are You Reading? - [95]

102. Do Interfaith Conferences/ Discussions Work? - [29]

101. Have You Made Any Extra Security Preparations? - [85]

100. Why Are You A Pagan or Heathen? - [142]

99. What Moon Phase Are You In? - [70]

98. Would You Live In A Haunted House? - [166]

97. What Natural Objects Are On Your Altar? - [103]

96. If You Were Granted Three Wishes... - [179]

95. How Do You Feel About War? - [153]

94. Who Would Make Your Pagan/Heathen Who’s Who List? - [91]

93. Should Pagans Apply For Federal Funds? - [56]

92. What Do You See in 2003? - [47]

90. Which Christmas Ghost Would You Like To Be? - [82]

89. Bah-Humbug! Are You Offended by Christmas? - [173]

88. Are We Alone in The Universe? - [67]

87. The Pagan Web 2002... Your likes? Dislikes? - [50]

86. How’s Your Gratitude Attitude? - [64]

85. What’s Your Motivation? - [97]

84. Between the Veils: What Did You See? - [80]

83. Time to Talk Politics and Elections… - [109]

82. Your Samhain/Beltaine Musings - [50]

81. ExCUSE Me! Has Common Courtesy Become A Thing of the Past? - [97]

80. Polytheist, Monotheist, Dualist or Other? - [104]

79. Have You Switched Pagan Paths? - [110]

78. Would You Take Part in a Public Event or Protest AS a Pagan? - [268]

77. Pot-Kettle: Do We Have Our Own Fundamentalists? - [91]

76. America 911: One Year Later. What's Changed? Are we Safer? - [103]

75. So What Do YOU Think of the Pagan Web? - [43]

74. What is/was your 2002 New Year's resolution - [23]

73. Do You Believe in Faeries? - [44]

72. Is 'Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men' Possible? - [28]

71. How Do YOU View the Balance of Light and Dark? - [22]

70. What's News? - [22]

69. What Are Your Favorite Yule Traditions or Memories? - [17]

68. Are You Wild About Harry? - [80]

67. What Is Music? - [18]

66. What Did You Do this Samhain? - [8]

65. What ARE the most "Frequently Asked Questions' About Witches? - [31]

64. What Are YOUR book/video/dvd Recommendations? - [119]

63. Have You Done Any Protection Spells or Workings? - [38]

62. What Are Your Thoughts On The Current "War on Terrorism"? - [77]

61. Are You Willing To Give Up Some Civil Liberties To Be Safe? - [69]

60. What About Those Pagan Leaders Again? - [289]

59. 911 America: Talking Through The Terror... - [969]

58. What Are Your Plans For Fall? - [21]

57. If You Were Stranded Alone On A Deserted Island... - [56]

56. What Would You Like to See at The Voice? - [65]

55. What Lies Beyond? - [28]

54. What is the connection between Spirit, Nature and Humankind? - [18]

53. What is 'Will' or 'Willpower'? - [19]

52. Have you ever been to a Pagan Festival? - [26]

51. What Did You Think of 'The Mists of Avalon"? - [44]

50. What's Your Magickal Focus? - [33]

49. Ending Religious Discrimination-What's It Gonna Take? - [41]

48. How Fares The First Amendment? - [20]

47. Are you a Talker or a Listener? - [14]

46. Predator and Prey - What Beasts Live Within You? - [44]

45. Who Do You Trust? - [22]

44. Do You Spend Money with Pagan Merchants? - [24]

43. What's On Your Balloon? - [52]

42. Is There An Energy Crisis? - [30]

41. What Makes You So Special? - [33]

40. What is Your Guilty Little Secret? - [101]

39. Who Are Your Gods? - [55]

38. What Are The Greatest Challenges That Pagans Face Today? - [35]

37. What's On Your Altar? - [45]

36. Should the United States Apologize to China - [32]

35. Pagan Web Surfing Likes/Dislike - [60]

34. What Are Your Views on Abortion, Euthanasia and Suicide? - [95]

33. What Is The Appropriate Response to Bigotry and Religious Hatred? - [108]

32. Why Are Kids Killing Kids? - [60]

31. Whassa Matter With Kids Today? - [71]

30. What Do You Support and Why Do You Support It? - [21]

29. How About Some New Holidays? - [39]

28. Where Did You Get Your Magickal Name? - [93]

27. Where Are The Pagan Social Programs? Do We Care? - [22]

26. What Do You Think About Bush's 'Faith-Based' Initiative Plan? - [87]

25. What Are The Boundaries? - [26]

24. What is Pagan History and What is Pagan Belief? - [44]

23. Who or What is a "Pagan Leader"? - [61]

22. What More Do You Want To Know About Paganism? - [45]

21. What is/was your New Year's resolution? - [19]

19. What do YOU of our newest entry into the Presidential Political Pool? - [61]

20. What have YOU done to trace your family history? - [11]

18. Your Gift, Craft and Holiday Celebration Ideas! - [43]

17. Does Older Equal Better? - [199]

16. What is the best gift that you ever received? - [28]

15. What are YOU Thankful For? - [87]

14. The Unresolved US Election - [263]

13. Divination - [29]

12. Pagan Choice for the y2k US Election - [129]

11. Hollywood Hype - [74]

10. Money and the Craft - [82]

9. Pagan Jokes and Humorous Stories - [37]

8. Misconceptions About Witches, Wiccans and Pagans - [63]

7. The Ethics of Magick and Spellwork - [43]

6. What are YOU planning for Mabon-Autumn Equinox? - [14]

5. Pagan books/web sites-dynamic or drivel? - [46]

4. The Broomcloset-In or Out?... What's YOUR View? - [181]

3. Church and State, Religion in School... What is YOUR View? - [122]

2. How Do You Define Witch/WitchCraft? - [42]

1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]

 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 23,459,022  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 289

Lurker/Post Ratio: 113 to 1

Question of the Week: 60 - 10/1/2001

What About Those Pagan Leaders Again?

As we mentioned in our homepage introduction, the question of who our 'Pagan Leaders' might be has again been raised. And perhaps that is a good thing as the world situation has changed and perhaps the views of Pagans on the topic have changed as well. We would request that those who continue to support the decades old view that Pagans do not need national leaders also then address the question of what should we do to comfort/represent our own at a national level in times of crisis seeing as most folks in the Pagan community are still solitaries.

We request that those who take the position that national leaders are (or may) be needed to represent the Pagan communities in times such as this also address the question of how these 'leaders' would be supported financially in order that they might afford to work full-time for the communities and/or take emergency/diplomatic trips to seats of political power to represent you.

And finally, just where would the national election for 'Pagan Leaders' be held? Without such an election, any national 'Pagan Leader' would by necessity have to be an 'appointed' one, wouldn't he/she? (Just who does the appointing has always been interesting.) This question is one of a 'national' Pagan leadership and the benefits and/or drawbacks of such. Local and community Pagan leaders/advocates/facilitators are already in place and generally do a wonderful job where they are.

 Reponses:   There are 289 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

I Too Found Myself Looking Outwardly For Faith Inspired Words Of Comfort... Sep 29th. at 5:56:19 pm EDT

Valari (Cleveland, Ohio US) Age: 33 - Email

I too found myself looking outwardly for faith inspired words of comfort and connection on September 11th and subsequent days. I wasn't looking for a leader per se to tell me how to react, interpret the situation or show me what to do. I wasn't looking for someone to follow. I very simply needed (and still do) to hear the collective voices of the pagan community. I was not looking for a leader to step forth and speak for me- I needed someone in a more public position (Starhawk, Z., Silver, Selena, Phyllis, etc.) to step forth and speak for OUR faith. I needed to hear someone publically say "God might bless America- but Goddess bless the Earth". I'm sure this will happen in the days to come. I'm certain our more public repesentatives are not cowering somewhere- they're tough and bright. Yes, those of us who walk the path of the Goddess have a unique and intimate relationship with our spirituality - but in times of great crisis the operative word must be C-O-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y. I have been doing ritual, I have been doing my part to aid in the transitioning of the dead and healing our global wounds, I have been doing the important inner work of holding space in my own heart for peace and strength. I have consulted my faith for perspective and insight and I have found great tranquility in all this. But this is just me and although that counts for something I want to do more. I need to do more within the context of the Pagan community. I propose we all become leaders without followers. I propose we grasp our hands across the world to cast a circle the likes of which have never been seen. How does the next full moon look for everyone? Maybe we can get together and do the work we are here to do.

This Is A Tricky Situation Since Paganism Is Comprised Of Loosely Tied... Sep 29th. at 6:11:05 pm EDT

Rebecca Piche (West Palm Beach, Florida US) Age: 37 - Email

This is a tricky situation since Paganism is comprised of loosely tied small groups. I do think that the recent events do show that we do need some sort of national voice, however. We are in a perfect situation to dispell the myths surrounding Paganism and we should not let this opportunity slip by.

A list of criteria should be established and then those people meeting this criteria could put their name on a ballot or be nominated by someone else. This could be done through a forum such as TWV. The criteria could be something along the lines of being a published author, scholar, a HP or HPS for a certain length of time, etc. The most important thing, in my opinion, is that these "Leaders" or "Spokespeople" be articulate and well versed in the history of Paganism, as well as other religions so that they could answer questions and fend off any atagonistic remarks with intelligence and poise.

When a list of nominees has been established, then the general Pagan population could log on and vote, or mail in their votes.

As far as the financial end of this - maybe a non-profit group could be formed and when festivals or events are held around the country, the sponsoring groups could be encouraged to donate a portion of the funds to this organization. Plus, private donations could be made as well.

I think the time has come and we should now take the next steps to becoming an accepted religious path.

Whose Viewpoint Would The Pagan Leader Represent. We Are A Diverse Group... Sep 29th. at 6:15:22 pm EDT

Wes Shepherd (Toronto, Ontario CA) Age: 42 - Email

Whose viewpoint would the Pagan leader represent. We are a diverse group with many and varied beliefs. I myself enjoy the Pagan philosophy because it does not require us to believe in the words of a leader (I had enough of that with the Pope) but allows us to choose the path that best fits.

So, no, I would prefer not to have someone speak for me; I'll do it for myself, thanks. The opinions I express with my own voice may not be recognized on a national or international scale, but they will be my own.

In Answer To The Question(where Are Our Pagan Leaders?), I Question... Sep 29th. at 6:36:38 pm EDT

One pissed off Pagan! (Brockton, Massachusetts US) Age: 50

In answer to the question(where are our pagan leaders?), I question this myself, there seems to be no better time than now for them to step forward and bring neo-paganism to the forefront! I personally will be there if they ever step forward and give my support! Unfortunately it seems that too many of them are more interested in being adored by their fans as well as selling merchandise! This however does not shake my belief in the God/Goddess to heal anyone whether they be Pagan or not! Here's the challenge then, STEP FORWARD LIKE OUR ANCESTORS AND SHOW THE WORLD WHAT WE HAVE TO OFFER!

Who Needs A Group Leader When We All Stand Side By Side... Sep 29th. at 9:05:35 pm EDT

Thomas MacFie (Asheville, North Carolina US) Age: 22 - Email

who needs a group leader when we all stand side by side?

I Am Not In Favor Of Designating Pagan Leaders. I Think That... Sep 29th. at 9:06:49 pm EDT

Victoria Ziemer (Leominster, Massachusetts US) Age: 54

I am not in favor of designating Pagan Leaders. I think that there are plenty of leaders that just naturally evolve, as in the case of Starhawk, or Selena Fox, for example. One of the many beauties of Paganism is the lack of organization. Although there are beginning to be many "rules" depending on what kind of Paganism one practices, there is no real Dogma. If certain people want a more organized ritual, it is available, but no one thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

I feel that designating leaders is a slippery slope that could lead to more and more rules, control, and an attitude of being a little above or superior to the rest of us. I prefer it to be just as it is.

I would like to have a little more visibility or presence during times like this, but I think that can be accomplished by the people that we have already. I think that we should think long and hard before we take this step that could have repercussions that none of us want. Vicki

Like Many, I Looked To The Media For A Figure To Stand... Sep 29th. at 9:09:05 pm EDT

Jonobie (Austin, Texas US) Age: 25

Like many, I looked to the media for a figure to stand up and speak to my beliefs. And then I realized that this was silly; I logged onto my computer and started reading my email lists and wandered over to Witchvox to look for words of comfort from Wren & Fritz. What I found shouldn't have surprised me - everywhere, people were grappling with the tragedy, writing their thoughts, writing poetry and prayers. It filled any void the lack of a "national voice" created.

Do I think we need national leaders who can be called up in times of national tragedy and can serve as spokespersons for our faiths? Yes, but not yet. Our religion is so new, so young -- we can't even define ourselves (witness the numerous times discussions about the meaning of the word "witch" or "pagan" appear on various email or chat lists), let alone find the proper people to represent our diversity.

Add to this the problem that Neopagans are *not* accustomed to the notion of tithing or financially supporting a church or elected leaders. If you doubt this, ask the WitchVox staff if they could live off of the donations to this site, and recall that Isaac Bonewits' site went offline earlier this year due to lack of funding. Would each Neopagan be willing to spend even 5% of their annual income to support either their national leaders, their local grove, or both? I doubt it. If you want a national voice, but you vehemently disagree with what your elected offical is saying, would you financially support the process and person anyhow? I bet many wouldn't. We, as a community, are not yet ready to pay for our leaders -- and a national voice that does it on a part-time unpaid basis is likely going to burn out quickly or do a poor job. They need to be free to do it as their sole means of livelihood.

On another note, I've read many comments here that seem to worry that a national spokesperson would be akin to the Pope. I think this is inaccurate. What I envision a national Neopagan leader doing includes the following:

o Educating those who give public prayers on language changes that would make the prayers and services more acceptable to Neopagans.
o In times of need, leading public (televised) interfaith Neopagan rituals. Also, any other public ministering that can be done in times of great need.
o Being available for public statements for the media, either as an educational resource or for issuing comforting statements to Neopagans.
o Activism in government - lobbying or educating officals about our religions.

This, as many others have pointed out, requires sensitivity to and knowledge of the numerous religions that fall under the Neopagan umbrella.

We're starting towards a national presence, though. For each member of clergy who attends interfaith meetings, for every newspaper article that's written about us that emphasizes the beliefs of our various religions instead of the trappings, for each Neopagan who presents a kind and intelligent face to an outsider, we move closer towards national recognition and a good climate for national spokespersons.

Mm: All Do We Need Leaders ? I Would Say Yes ,and, We... Sep 29th. at 10:32:57 pm EDT

David (Dawsonville, Georgia US) Age: 43 - Email

MM: All

Do we need leaders ? I would say yes , and, we are they. We are our own leaders
and followers we draw ispiration from others so they may find it in us.we are one and we are nany. When the call is heard we step up together, Yes we have national leaders , but like so many other aspects of the Pagan approach it is done differently elections and appointments are the usal way of doing this sort of thing the third option is of course to ask for volenteers when needed and then back them .There several organiziations that preform the grand task of trying to give us a greater voice Groups like C.O.G., A.R.E.N. , and Circle Sanctuary to name a few, these groups and many more like them are in bussiness to help serve the community and thusly they also lead by example .because the best leaders are the ones , if asked really don`t want the job and Folks like Fritz and Wren whose tireless efforts to serve the community by providing sch a wonderful means to connect and communicate with each other which without which would not happen( or at the very least not as fast), we look to each other for support and guidence in times of need.We have our leaders and we are they. And thanks to places like the T.W.V. we have an avenue to relate to each other and grow in spirit, understanding and harmony.

Well I hope this has helped express my views , I will take this oppertunity to Thank The good people at The witches` Voice for their Service to the community. You lead by serving , and that`s the best kind.
I also would like to appoligise for any Incoherence in this , typing at late hours tends to bring out my worst in sentence structuring. with that I will say aloha.
BB & MP David

As A Young Australian Pagan (i Am 16), I Believe It Is... Sep 29th. at 11:53:54 pm EDT

Stephanie Akasha (Melbourne, Victoria AU) Age: 16 - Email

As a young Australian Pagan (I am 16), I believe it is time for there to be a National representative. Times are changing, and inevitably religions are changing with them. More and more people, mostly of my age group I know, are turning to paganism, wicca and other earth based religions and even though there is hundreds of thousands of web-sites, books etc around, it is very easy to feel alone and alienated. A National figure would be a reassurance to young solitaries, a means of promoting acceptance and understanding in the wider community and focal point around which the pagan community can rally in times of need. I agree that this would be an incredibly difficult endevour, but I honestly think it is one worth attempting.
Blessed Be!

I'm Not Sure If I Can Speak For Other Pagans Or Their... Sep 30th. at 12:39:25 am EDT

Calypso (Billings, Montana US) Age: 30

I'm not sure if I can speak for other Pagans or their communities or groups...but I can at least say that the HPS of my circle has opened up the circle's online group posting to quite a few ideas and discussions which were, at least initially, against her own personal feelings. If she is at all indicative of Pagan leadership, the simple act on her part, of providing an open forum for the circle participants, and providing her own support to them as needed, is as much leadership as I've needed. The email mentioned in the witchvox homepage sounded very much as if the writer was acting out from feeling very alone and isolated, and very full of pain. While I think it is always good to re-evaluate whether a system is working optimally, I am not sure whether or not such evaluation should be spurred by one person possibly acting out from feelings barely under control. Perhaps that is actually the PERFECT time to re-evaluate, but I don't know how rationally such evaluation can be conducted. As one therapist has said, right now while we are grieving is not the time to be making life decisions - wait until the worst pain has passed and we can regain some perspective again...

Finally, until the Pagan community can more fully succeed at gaining respect from the majority of the society we live in, I suspect that the political consequences of any Pagan attempt to be included in national events may prove at this time to be an inappropriate distraction from the national intention. I would love to be wrong on this point, but with as much resistance as I see daily, I don't know that we could have been involved in the national memorial service. If we had been refused involvement, how far, in that particular situation, would we have wanted to push our equality? Would it have been appropriate, in the middle of national mourning, to push the "side" issues involved? At your own family's funeral, would it have been appropriate for a guest to argue loudly about getting to sit with the family? That's where to me it seems we are at right now.

In an ideal world, it would have been great - and I would have been far more interested in watching the service - had there been a Pagan rep at the national memorial service. Did I think about it? No: the point of the service was not whether a HP/S was up front or not.

I have had to work a lot at "reconciling" (sometimes it feels more like 'resigning' or 'conceding'!) with the majority Xian system. Spirit is Spirit, whether we call it God, Allah, Buddha, Quan Yin, Diana, Jesus, Lugh, or the universe. Sometimes when dealing with the health of our own communities it is more important to start there (and *then* work our way forward). I work in a church office (no, they don't know), and I simply felt grateful that with all the flag-waving I've been able to wear my pentagrams...and that Pagan Pride was timed right in the middle of it all. Hallaluia!!

I Would Love To Have A "generic" (if Such A Thing Could... Sep 30th. at 12:48:18 am EDT

Karen (Denver, Colorado US) Age: 29

I would LOVE to have a "generic" (if such a thing could exist...??!!??)
Flag for all Pagans...sometimes I feel patriotic not just to the country
but also to the religion - and I don't have a very effective way of showing
that - at least, waving the national flag doesn't quite do it "all" for me!

Would love to see suggestions for a Pagan Flag...

Praise The Goddess !!!!! I Have Long Been Pondering In My Head The... Sep 30th. at 5:33:45 am EDT

andy (kansas city, Missouri US) Age: 28 - Email

Praise the Goddess !!!!!

I have long been pondering in my head the idea of a national pagan organization.

I want to call it PBN Pagan Broadcasting Network...kind of like CBN only better cause its pagan and it wont be drippign with dogma and stupidity

pagans CAN become united and not let small differences tear them apart...we can keep our basic message and principals....we all have a common goal as pagans....
and I am getting more and more annoyed by this general ignorance when it comes to my "religion" (always gotta used quotes ;) we need to stand together and share our message and do it the "rigth" living doing it....not by the other popular methods i won't get into....

well im starting to sound like a preacher....i better quite...

blessed be ;)


 1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10    11    12    13    14    15    16    17    18    19    20    21    22    23    24  

Pagan Essays

Pagan Web
8,000 Links

Pagan Groups
Local Covens etc.

80,000 Profiles

Home - TWV Logos - Email US - Privacy
News and Information

Chapters: Pagan/Heathen Basics - Pagan BOOKS - Traditions, Paths & Religions - Popular Pagan Holidays - TV & Movies - Cats of the Craft - Festival Reviews - Festival Tips - White Pages (Resources) - Issues/Concerns - West Memphis 3 - Witch Hunts - Pagan Protection Tips - Healing Planet Earth

Your Voices: Adult Essays - Young Pagan Essays - Pagan Perspectives (On Hold) - WitchWars: Fire in the Craft - Gay Pagan - Pagan Parenting - Military - Pagan Passages

Pagan Music: Pagan Musicians - Bardic Circle at WitchVox - Free Music from TWV

Vox Central: About TWV - Wren: Words, Wrants and Wramblings - Guest Rants - Past Surveys - A Quest for Unity

Weekly Updates: Click HERE for an index of our weekly updates for the past 6 years

W.O.T.W. - World-Wide Networking

Your Town: A Link to YOUR Area Page (The largest listing of Witches, Pagans, Heathens and Wiccans on the Planet)

VoxLinks: The Pagan Web: 8,000 Listings

Your Witchvox Account: Log in Now - Create New Account - Request New Password - Log in Problems

Personal Listings: Pagan Clergy in Your Town - Adult Pagans - Young Pagans - Military Pagans

Events: Circles, Gatherings, Workshops & Festivals

Covens/Groups/Orgs: Local Groups Main Page

Other LOCAL Resources: Local Shops - Regional Sites - Local Notices - Global/National Notices - Local Skills & Services - Local Egroups - Political Freedom Fighters

Pagan Shopping: Online Shops Index - Original Crafters Sites - Auction Sites - Pagan Wholesalers - Pagan Local Shops

Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2019 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.

Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh.

Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections
(including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wren’s Nest, etc.)
are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witches’ Voice, Inc.
TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.

The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.

Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.