The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
||This Page Viewed: 11,161,082
Vox Q Stats|
Times Viewed: 32,767
Lurker/Post Ratio: 113 to 1
Question of the Week: 60 - 10/1/2001
What About Those Pagan Leaders Again?
As we mentioned in our homepage introduction, the question of who our 'Pagan Leaders' might be has again been raised. And perhaps that is a good thing as the world situation has changed and perhaps the views of Pagans on the topic have changed as well. We would request that those who continue to support the decades old view that Pagans do not need national leaders also then address the question of what should we do to comfort/represent our own at a national level in times of crisis seeing as most folks in the Pagan community are still solitaries.
We request that those who take the position that national leaders are (or may) be needed to represent the Pagan communities in times such as this also address the question of how these 'leaders' would be supported financially in order that they might afford to work full-time for the communities and/or take emergency/diplomatic trips to seats of political power to represent you.
And finally, just where would the national election for 'Pagan Leaders' be held? Without such an election, any national 'Pagan Leader' would by necessity have to be an 'appointed' one, wouldn't he/she? (Just who does the appointing has always been interesting.) This question is one of a 'national' Pagan leadership and the benefits and/or drawbacks of such. Local and community Pagan leaders/advocates/facilitators are already in place and generally do a wonderful job where they are.
| Reponses: There are 289 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| I'm Always Amazed When I Hear Pagans Say That "something Should Be... ||Oct 1st. at 1:51:16 pm UTC|
|Dj Connell (Santa Clara , California US) ||Age: 43 - Email |
I'm always amazed when I hear Pagans say that "something should be done" but then they just as quickly say " I don't have the time, money, interest or will to do it". This implies that they want leaders. But then they say "I won't follow anyone" and "No one speaks for me". Folks, you can't have it both ways.
These are the same sorts of people who'll spend $60.00 on a crystal for their alter but they won't give $5.00 to a Pagan charity. It makes you want to cry.
Some of our tribe complain constantly about the work that is being done and they burn out those good leaders we do have. I notice that it's always the same sort of people who complain. They are the ones who don't offer to help *do* the work - they just want to sit on the sidelines and kvetch. Those who want a voice should be willing to help improve our community in some way, however small. I notice that no one really listens to the people who whine. We to listen to those who offer practicle and thoughtful ideas and then offer their help to make these ideas a reality.
As Terry Pratchett says: "There is no justice. There's just us."
As for me, I'd like to see fewer Pagan Leaders and more Pagan Doers. It's our spiritual practice and it's our power. No one is going to hand it to us on a silver platter.
I've worked with a group in my area for two years now and I'm happy to do it. I like working at the grass roots level because you can get things done and you can see who the Doers are (as opposed to the Talkers) and you can work with them. I like the fact that our group works with other Pagan groups and that we don't get involved in Witch Wars. We also have standards (Wyrd ones like "Show up", "Do what you say you're going to do", "Tell the truth" and "Respect each other"). There are lots of practicle, hard working Pagans out there - the trick is to find them.
You'll notice that Fritz and Wren are Doers. Starhawk is a Doer, too. You may not want to do things the same way they do. In that case, get up and be a Doer in your own special way. Then you can make a difference as they have done.
Our ancestors were Doers or we wouldn't be here. Samhain is a good time to remember that and to honor their hard won accomplishments.
| I Find The Concept Of 'elected Pagan Leaders' As A Little Foreign... ||Oct 1st. at 4:24:39 pm UTC|
|Wyrdsister (Ottawa, Ontario CA) ||Age: 26 |
I find the concept of 'elected pagan leaders' as a little foreign. I'd never considered it before and I think I find it a little disconcerting. I'm reluctant to endorse anything that would mirror or continue to uphold the political status quo as I am one of those 'political pagans on the left' ;), so I wonder if mimicking the existing system of elected leaders and bureaucracy is really the way to go.
I also find it interesting how hot under the collar this issue can make us. Bacon's Daughter, I do not fear you - I feel sorry for you. It makes me sad to know that you are so full of anger and rage that you need to lash out so. Perhaps a nice cup of tea with a man named Falwell would make you feel better. It might be nice for once to be in the company of someone who detests Dianics as much as yourself. <|;)
DJ's comment is most refreshing: the idea of having more Pagan 'DOERS' in our ranks. It's amazing what a tall order that is, but it rings so true for me. Thanks for adding your thoughts to the fray, DJ! I hope your post makes others think and FEEL in a way they haven't before.
| I Must Say That I Am Truly Speechless....well Not Completely! I... ||Oct 3rd. at 11:25:22 am UTC|
|Barb (Chicago, Illinois US) ||Age: 42 - Email |
I must say that I am truly speechless....well not completely! I just popped into the site for some other information and came across this topic. The leadership within our communities is done according to our standards. I have spoken with many and can honestly tell you that so much was done by the Pagan community. If the question is should we be represented in main stream agendas, I categorically deny such representation. To all of you who work so hard to maintain this site I now say thank you. It is the true ones who work tirelessly to help. They don't expect press and/or accolades. Every day, they are here. Not just in crisis, but every day. For those who have no concept of what giving is, take a look at this site. We see Wren and Fritz, who in my personal experience, have offered a response whenever I needed it. The worker beez behind the scenes, have no faces, but they are there. It is those who work so quietly that are truly changing the world. It is also those who would choose not to be recognized. I respect them greatly. There are many who work extremely hard all over the world to bring information and change. But, I say this is done in our way. I know where these people were and the help that they gave. Open your minds and understand that to assimilate into the mainstream stands for everything I am against. I choose my own leaders, and they all work at my side, guiding me. Anyway, thanks to the quiet ones as they are the true beauty of our world.
| First Of All, I Do Not Look On At Wren, Fritz, Silver... ||Oct 4th. at 9:30:51 am UTC|
|Elibdis Dreamwolf Dragonmoon (Taylorville, Illinois US) ||Age: 16 - Email |
First of all, I do not look on at Wren, Fritz, Silver Ravenwolf, Starhawk, or any others as "Pagan Leaders". I simply view them a good people who inform the world about us, as I try to do. I am a solitary Eclectic Wiccan. Does not the Rede say "An it harm none, do what ye will"? I simply choose not to follow a person I have never met. If I met any other Wiccans in Taylorville, IL, I would shake thier hand, and feast with them, but that does not mean I would follow thier certain path, for it is thier own, and not mine.Maybe our leaders, our High Priest/ess's, are all working instead of making a too big of a deal out of this. Yes, it is a tragedy that so many had to die. Yes, I mourn for the families of those who have lost thier loved ones. BUT if I would have gone to whatever cathedral it was, I would have lost my life savings for the plane ticket. I prefer to sit back and observe the Chaos from a distance, lest I be dragged in. The reason there were no "visions" or predictions or a Tarot spread never told us about this is simple: We are not T.V. psychics. Even the wise are caught unawares. If we were T.V. psychics, Hitler would have never risen to power, Osama bin Laden would not be a threat, the Burning Times would not have happened. Magick is a wonderous tool, but it won't solve everything.
~In Light and Blessings, Elibdis D. Dragonmoon
| Merry Meet All, As A Solitary I Know That We Are All... ||Oct 11th. at 9:19:37 am UTC|
|Mystek Silver Unicorn (Marysville, Ohio US) ||Age: 21 - Email |
Merry Meet All,
As a Solitary I know that we are all leaders in the Pagan community from time to time. It may not seem like we have "leaders" but we do have elders and those who pass down the knowledge of the past to all who care to listen with open hearts and spirits. Again I will stress the fact that we are all leaders in our own ways and do all we can to help each other and be united together as a community or a lagre clan would be at all times.
Anyway, I personally think that we are all leaders and guide each other with the help of the Goddess in all her forms.
On a final note "Together we can accomplish much"
Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2015 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.
Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.
Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wrenâ€™s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witchesâ€™ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.
Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.
Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.