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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,875,786  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


War: Not Now, Not Ever Mar 25th. at 12:41:35 am UTC

MBW (California) Age: 51 - Email


In my lifetime I have lived to see too many wars. Korea, VietNam, Gulf and now Iraq. Wars have always been a part of my life. I have never ceased to become angry with the concept that war and killing will bring peace. It just does not happen that way!!! No country has ever proven to be better off after being "saved" by another country. This is not a reality. Unfortunately, governments do not seem to grasp that concept.

For many years I have marched in protest of war. This war is no different. As we destroy human life with "smart" bombs and bullets we also destroy our souls. As our leaders choose to involve our countries in legal acts of murder known as "war" we as spiritual beings die as well. The souls of those who have suffered and died continue to touch our lives as we walk this plane of life. They cry out to us to protest and use any legal means available to us to stop the killing. If you listen, you can hear them. So, I am marching one more time in protest. I pray with all my soul that this will be the last time I will have to march but somewhere inside my being, I am doubtful. After all, governments do not really fight wars. We the individual people of our world are all too willing to do that for them.

As we erode away our civil liberties in the name of "security", we have stripped individuals of their right to exist side by side. It has happened so gradually that we hardly recognize it for what it is: Discrimination, Bigotry and Hate. When we suspend civil liberties, we allow legalized discrimination and bigotry into our daily lives and hate begins to grow. Was it not our elected government officials who told us that the fight for freedom from Discrimination, Bigotry and Hate was the basis for this war to begin with?

This war must stop!!! At some point future generations must be taught that there is another way. This a fight worth undertaking. This is a fight that we as individuals can win. The greatest gift we can give to our future is the gift of peace.


US Is Responsible? Mar 25th. at 1:09:51 am UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


NZ was fighting Hitler when America was pretending it was a little war in Europe that didnt involve them?!?! WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO FOR YOU?! we get dammned by you when we stay out of it? and damned if we get involved?! And you say it is one rule for us and one rule for the rest of the world? Either way, NZ troops have been the significant fighting force of which wars? I realize that we have more troops and better weapons and are a global superpower I AM SO SORRY. how horrible for YOU. and as far as Afghanistan and NZ, NZ currently has NO army OR navy deployment in Afghanistan, and air force you ask? This is NZ's total air force:

The RNZAF has:
2 Boeing 727s,
5 C-130H Hercules,
6 P3-K Orions,
14 Bell UH-1H Iroquois,
5 Bell 47G Sioux,
13 Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainer,
and 5 Beech King Air B200.
Total of 50 aircraft

The Entire Military Personel Composition in NZ (including Reg. forces, special ops, and civilian staff) totals 26, 378 with a potential of up to 1 million if a draft was imposed. (est. 2002) NZ lost 10, 000 troops in WW2 compared to 292, 000 US soldiers. WE know what loss is and don't want it anymore than you do. I am so tired of the US being called the "white satan" We have changed alot since then and have come a long way as well! This internet site and this forum is living proof of that.

I have to think that you would have checked your facts before being so grandiose about such statements. We are the main protective force in the world and have been either hassled into or felt the NEED (not want) to be involved in ALL of the major wars since the industrial revolution. In WW2, the NZ airforce was used to help train the british and was not mainly used for actual combat. Of the 131, 000 graduates from New zealands air force, only 7002 were actually from New zealand. All the rest were allied troops from other countries. I am not trying to downplay what they did, Your country gave what they could. But don't try to so quickly dismiss our losses for wars gone by. Russia I give some slack to cause of the fact that their country has not only been turned inside out, but also lost 50 times as many troops in WW2 than any other country and the next 2 were England and the US. It truly saddens me to see people so hostile towards the US and their actions considering how much of the world we ARE involved in due to technology as well as financial wealth and food supplies. You sound like someone yelling about the man bringing them down. Which only makes me laugh.


Mind Not Changed Mar 25th. at 2:05:27 am UTC

Belisamasana (Wausau, Wisconsin) Age: 33 - Email


My mind hasn't changed. Although war is devastating, I'm behind it 100%. What I'm worried about most is what our troops are going to encounter once they reach the outskirts of Baghdad. Is the ring around the city booby-trapped? There have been small groups of resistance, resulting in the capture, torture, and execution of some of our troops. Where are the chemical weapons? I believe they are IN Baghdad, in the hands of Saddams Medina Division Republican Guard, waiting for the arrival of our troops. I personally believe that Saddam is seriously injured, if not dead, along with his sons. His public address today was edited 65 times, and made no mention of the POW's, and he praised the commander of the 11th Iraqi Brigade in Basra, who surrendered along with many of his troops in the early hours of the war. I hope that his crumbling regime falls apart fast enough, because our troops should be there within a day.

A few words about protestors. They have the right to express their views, but the cost of police protection, not to mention the time involved protecting, is a waste. The police have more important things to worry about than some protestor getting in the way of traffic. If the protestors are against the war, then get off the streets and volunteer with the local Red Cross. Don't you think your time spent there would be a better choice? I'm immune to the protestors anyway. We have a few here that I ignore, and I pay no attention to them on television. The protests are not going to stop the war. The war is on. Instead of wasting time standing around shouting, or quietly standing and marching, VOLUNTEER your time!

And a reminder......

It is the Soldier,
not the reporter who has given us freedom of press

It is the Soldier,
not the poet who has given us freedom of speech

It is the Soldier,
not the campus organizer who gives us freedom to demonstrate

It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves beneath the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Father Dennis Edward O'Brien


AMEN!!!!!! Mar 25th. at 3:39:56 am UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


I thank you for that! and I am relieved to see that post and that end part is SOOO true! thank you!

BB


Absolutely Not... Mar 25th. at 5:18:19 am UTC

chip (tn) Age: 32 - Email


i still view this as an abomination....i only hope that some day i can forgive the u.s. government....sorry, but i completely agree with the rest of the world on this one....and if this "pro-life", born-again christian, draft-dodger gets another term, i just may find somewhere else to live that's peaceful....this administration has ripped any american pride i had away with its mis-use of power and extreme greed....


Peace! Mar 25th. at 7:39:03 am UTC

Jera MorningOwl (Whitby) Age: 15 - Email


I still believe that war is a horrible offence to the Gods. Using people to fight to the death...for what? Freedom? Freedom is not murder. Freedom is Peace. There must have been another way to bring peace to the middle east.

Peace and Love,
Jera MorningOwl


Get It Straight Mar 25th. at 8:02:10 am UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


Who had to step in to ensure they were gone? NOT NEW ZEALAND.
Really I was under the impression our SAS was there. Certainly my friend in the SAS seems to remember being there.
Were not there anymore, well like you say your bigger and richer, deal with it. Besides I dont remember you guys getting involved in East Timor, so fairs fair.
We lost 10, 000 men in WW2, and you lost 290, 000 so allowing for the population differences that would mean what? I dont know but I do know there is not a family I know of without WW2 war dead in this country. Significant? Maybe not but dont accuse us of not being there and doing our share.
I do however thank the Russians who really did most of the work in stopping Hitler.
This however is not the trust of my arguement. The difference is simply this. We believe in the UN and the process of Law, your government has shown that it does not.
Simple.
Also I find it unusual that you are proud of your country being involved in every major war since the industrial revolution. If this is a source of pride good on ya.
However your country has also done things that no one could possiably be proud of as well.
Facts and figures really dont cut it mate. Our lack of an Airforce is our business not yours, we have things like health and education to spend our money on instead.
They are our priorities, though there are those in our country who dont agree with them.
I realize that we have more troops and better weapons and are a global superpower I AM SO SORRY.
I too am sorry for you and the rest of the world.
See we agree on something.
But your wrong.
Skeggi


Propagada + Lies - Open Your Eyes Mar 25th. at 8:06:32 am UTC

elf (cornwall, england) Age: 23 - Email


Bush talks about the humanitarian reasons for this war and it makes me sick. Who sold Saddam the weapons? When he was murdering the Kurds with chemicals, the US sold him a billion dollars worth of arms (including anthrax) and they were fully aware of what he was doing. Truth is, your government are perfectly happy to support dictators, as long as they support the interests of the US. They have shown that time and time again.

Baghdad is an ancient city - one of the oldest in the world, and it's people love it. The written word (ie. writing in sentances etc) started there. It is, so to speak, the "cradle of civilisation". You don't liberate people by bombing them into obliteration and the idea they are going to come out in the street waving and welcoming us is naiive in the extreme. They hate Saddam, but hate as much what they (and many other countries) see as imperialist America.

In the small rural town in which I live, there was an anti-war demo and the people there, young and old, burnt the American flag. It was said that this was not against the American people but against American imperialist politics.

Basically, we in Europe and those people in the middle-east, think your government are all out for world-domination. They lie to you and you believe it. There is a mass campaign here to take Tony Blair to court for war crimes and it will happen. I perfectly understand the position of the Iraqi people and why they are fighting the American and British armies. No offence, but don't believe everything you hear on TV guys, the propaganda is coming thick and fast.


It's Awful Mar 25th. at 8:08:32 am UTC

StarDaughter (London England) Age: 15 - Email


I actually was totally pro war and I was really annoyed by all the protesters but...
It's horrible.I can't even begin to imagine how the POWs families must feel and also how anybody cna deal with the tragedy.An English newsreader was killed when his vehicle was hit by crossfire. I wish it would end.


Will The UN Attack US? Mar 25th. at 8:28:11 am UTC

Swanwillow (Bemidji, MN) Age: 20 - Email


Ok, now, people may tell me that i'm full of crap, but I'm getting ready for everyone that we've pissed off in the past 6 months to attack us. If they don't, I'll get mad at them!!! We need a new government alot worse thanIraq does!!! we fully support people that are bad and wrong, do the wrong things, ect. ect...
SO, people over yonder, please attack us and destroy our govenment!!!


The News Mar 25th. at 8:35:21 am UTC

Belisamasana (Wausau, Wisconsin) Age: 33 - Email


I'm a stay at home mom, and I've been sick, so last week I didn't leave the house much. I began becomming interested in this impending war months and months ago, and have spent many hours watching and LISTENING to Fox News Live, The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity & Colmes, Meet the Press, Face the Nation and I listen to talk radio in the car. I have become a news junkie, as have a lot of us. I do not lie when I say that I watch the news at least 10 hours a day. I watch entire programs, not just between commercials. My husband who is a bigger news junkie than I am, is in the Army National Guard, so every time something new happens, we tell each other how much we love each other. Now when the phone rings I am nervous, because I believe he will be called up. I just found out last week that I'm pregnant. I have a lot to think about and I have a touch of insomnia, so I watch the news. I'm informed.

My point is this. I don't just watch my half hour of Dan Rather every evening. I listen to the embedded reporters. I listen to the politicians. I listen to General Tommy Franks and I watch all press conferences. I don't shut out what I don't want to hear. I don't type on pure emotion. I listen, absorb, and comment when I think I know the facts. I support Bush and the war. Most of all, I support our troops and the coalition of forces.


A Mind Divided Mar 25th. at 8:55:35 am UTC

RuneWolf (Reston, VA) Age: 44 - Email - Web


No, I haven’t changed my mind. It remains thoroughly divided.

I believe that Saddam Hussein is a dangerous megalomaniac who probably still possesses, and intends to increase, stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction. And he certainly has proven that he is willing to use them, even on his own citizens. So it’s really only a matter of time before he turns them on a randomly chosen neighbor. I also believe that, if any government is actively supporting and supplying anti-American terrorists, it is Saddam’s regime. If any contemporary national leader needs to be toppled, for the good of that nation’s people, for the good of neighboring states, for the good of America and the world, it is certainly Saddam.

Unfortunately, I don’t believe that’s what this war is about. In my heart of hearts, I believe it is about George W. Bush’s ego.

In recovery circles, there is the term “dry drunk.” A dry drunk is someone who no longer drinks, but still exhibits the dysfunctional behavior of an active alcoholic. Dubya is a classic dry drunk. He’s shot his mouth off so many times, that now he has to create tremendous chaos, confusion and destruction just so he doesn’t have to admit that he was wrong. Most of the time, such damage is limited to someone’s family, friends, workplace and/or home. Unfortunately, when the dry drunk in question is the CiC of the world’s largest military power…

If I truly felt that this war was about freeing the Iraqi people and protecting the world from terrorism, I would feel a whole lot better. But I can’t escape the horrible feeling that it’s really all about one person’s ego.

And the fact that, if we win, a sizable portion of the worlds oil supply will be under our direct control is, I suppose, merely coincidence.

Nonetheless, I fully support and honor our troops over there. Those young women and men are just doing their job, and whatever our feelings may be about the current administration and its war, we owe our troops our honor, respect and support.


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