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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,429,768  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Am A Teenage Solitary Practitioner And Was Woken Up Tuesday Morning... Sep 12th. at 9:04:22 pm UTC

Amanda (Graham, North Carolina US) Age: 17 - Email


I am a teenage solitary practitioner and was woken up Tuesday morning by the news. I immediately woke my partner up and made him watch. My normally cynical mate was appalled, as was I. I am unable to believe that anybody on this Earth can be so cruel and stupid. For a grudge against an organization-possibly only one man, 10s of thousands of people died. To imagine what was going on on those planes and in the passengers heads before they crashed is heart breaking and ghastly to think about. I hope someone has enough guts or strength to stand up and stop the bantering, because it is becoming too much for the innocent people in the world to handle. Mother Nature and Earth will be destroyed if the blows get any worse-and I hope never to see so many people die within hours...It's too horrible


I Have Recently Finished Clancy's "the Bear & The Dragon", I Have To... Sep 12th. at 9:07:06 pm UTC

Aspasia Tiresias (Southern, Maine US) Age: 35 - Email


I have recently finished Clancy's "the Bear & The Dragon", I have to look at this incedent & wonder at the collosal stupid ity of whoever pulled this stunt. What did they think we would just give them a proportional response, only attack their military assets or stick to just who we can absolutely prove was involved. Give me a break. & get a clue while your at it. We are the freest nation on the planet, when you attack us, you attack the very concept of freedom itself. & as to those palestinians in the streets you represent your religion so well by celebrating the attacks. unfortunately religion is what it's participants do irregardless of what their beliefs may or may not say. So I say it's simple, whoever was involved with this attack, bomb 'em back to the bloody iceages! & any country that chooses to harbor international terrorists, cut em off, total economic & diplomatic isolation. Yeah that means no tourism there as well not that many of these countries are exactly tourist draws to begin with. But if we don't they'll think they can get away with it & keep doing it & not merely to us again but everywhere else will escalate or start up again. However that is just my more at-large rant of what to do with em! Us pagans well, having seen karmic justice at work, I shake my head even more at their collosal stupidity. I say call on every deity who has every dealt karmic justice, from Kali Ma to Ma'at to the Morrigan, use every herb & stone & other substance or energy that sends bad mojo back on it's producer & invoke their ugly deeds back upon them.
Think about the area, if there aren't some seriously bad vibes there afterwards, I will be very surprised & unfortunately this incident didn't surprise me except that it took so long to happen. In other words it takes a very great lot to surprise me. Don't mistake me I'm not cynical , I'm just priviledge to alot of information the world at large is not & I pick up on alot of stuff most others miss. However I digress, by doing this we will hopefully psychically cleanse the area without even having to go there. The way these people died was not pretty or neat, & the intentions invoked by this deed were nasty almost as bad as Hitler & WWII. The act itself combined with all those people violently dieing is going to create a pocket of psychic pollution that will make Chenobyl blowing up seem tame to make an environmental analogy. & i ask you have the other religious traditions been able to clean up similar areas of psychic pollution like Aushcwitz or certain native american sites where people were slaughtered or the dead were disturbed. I'm not saying it is our duty to clease this incedent. But what will result will give what ever punishment is inflicted an extra thump, likely just that extra thump needed to make these kind of people choose some other more peaceful method to make their point. Also I call on all pagans to create spells to protect their countries at large especially those of us in border regions of our countries to protect our borders from incursion of those who have malevolent intentions towards us. What is it they say about God & country. It's time probably long overdue a lesson is taught to those who use violence especially violence on this scale to force their views on others. The protection stuff I'd do on the next full moon & every full moon for the next year of so & then the usual maintanance. The Karmic Justice start on the day before the next new moons & a big spell on Samhain would be highly appropriate. Perhaps consider how those "celebrities" of our number who have passed over the past year would feel about this event & what they would have done about it as we mourne their passing at our annual day of mourning known as Samhain. If this attack weren't so atrocious I would laugh at their lousy timing! It is so close to the day the veil is the thinnest this is going to work quite well! I would also recommend a large bonfire, wearing black (unless you are able to go skyclad) , being demonstratative enough to attract attention not get yourself in trouble & be dignified about it. Pour in all your rage, sadness & grief over this into some sort of cone of power & release it into the universe when you are through. There is a sort of power in the universe that will take our collective rage & anguish & send precisely appropirate punishment upon their heads beyond what our politcal leaders are going to & it will quite likely be more accurate & productive than what they may be able to do anyway. Before you worry about the Rede, don't it's not as though we (the US) has done anything to deserve this, we didn't! Freedom is an incarnate inborn divine right every person is born with & no one has the right to infringe that right without reasonable cause or due process. & if Afganistan gets thumped in the process too well I can't feel anything in the way of sympathy for that as I know the Goddess has been not a little pissed off for a while at the way they are treating their women, & most other countries that help terrorists treat their women only slightly better so perhaps, 2 birds killed with one hell of a magical stone! & if you are not pissed off enough yet yesterday was International Peace Day!
Oh & an awsome psych out to countries who harbor these well demons would be complementary, send a simple envelope with herbs in it, Agrimony, & other herbs that send evil back upon it's sender(s) with a small pentagram drawn on it & a short message that those of our religion don't need violence to take retribution & a smile & perhaps the date of Samhain especially if we get most pagans everywhere to do a karmic justice ritual on that day or close to it. be sure to use the appropriate postage & an airmail envelope. the mind#&@% alone will be worth it & those have a power unto themselves as well.
Part of the point that was trying to be made by this action was one religion supposedly being more right than all others, one way of life being more right than all others. Are we not the perfect people to make the point that a diverse groups of people can live successfully & peacefully together. That concept is what part of this attack was on so the point must be made that those who chose to cause violence to others different from themselve in an attempt to make those same people more similar are wrong & must not be permitted to do so. If you are remotely afraid of the Law of Three, than use pictures of the explosions of the planes crashing into the buildings as a focus & ask the universe to punish those who took over those planes & those who helped them. The universe will do so, even if we never know how precisely it punished or how!


I Work Uptown, But My Fiance Works (worked) Downtown About 2 Blocks... Sep 12th. at 9:11:58 pm UTC

Bethy (Staten Island, New York US) Age: 34


I work uptown, but my fiance works (worked) downtown about 2 blocks from WTC. I panicked when I heard the news, all I could do was pray that he would call me and would be all right. He did--he saw the second plane hit as he was walking uptown to my office.

It was absolutely terrifying, not knowing what was happening and not wanting to watch the news for fear of seeing his body. Luckily, he got to me unharmed physically, but I'm hoping his heart is ok.

I'm feeling very numb right now. I'm so sad for everyone who lost friends and family in Towers and the planes, and though part of me wants retribution, all I can really ask is that karma backlashes on whoever masterminded this in the nastiest way possible. Most of me, however, asks the Goddess to comfort the living, give strength to the rescue workers, and hold the souls of the dead close in her arms.

Tonight will be prayers and magick working energy for those who need it.

Love and bright blessings to all, and thanks for Fritz and Wren for having a place like this.


I Sit Here And Just Heard That They Believe That Egypt And... Sep 12th. at 9:21:51 pm UTC

Hecate Laguz Persephone (conyers, Georgia US) Age: 15 - Email


i sit here and just heard that they believe that Egypt and Saudi Arabia were involved in it. I also sit here in tears crying not because i know someone who has so unfortunately passed, but i know people who have family members who have and their world is noe inevitably shattered. I am wiccan yet, this week, i have gone to school and participated in all the Christian prayer cirlces. Right now, religion dosent matter because we are all human first. i stated before that i dont know anyone who has died but i know a kid who's father was in one of those planes. i know girl who's mother was in the world trade center. And my aunts best friend, who is a flight attendant, was supposed to be on there too. She knew all the pilots and attendents on that plane and if it hadnt been her day off, she would have perished with them.
We wake up everymorining and turn to the news to see pictures of other countries at war and now, we turn it on and it is our own. Yet America is the sheer representation of diversity in our world and attacking us, is like attacking your own country.
My brother is getting ready to go into the navy, my sister and brotherinlaw are in the Airforce and so is my uncle, my father works in the federal building in atlanta and, i cant help but wonder, in the next few days, weeks, months, or even years, what will become of them. I am only 15 but, this affects everyone.
i got on a school bus today and our driver told us to look around at those sitting next to us, hug them, look directly in their eyes and say, "i hope i will see you tomarrow." right now, we dont know if we will ever see eachother again and, this is teaching us the power of goodbye in the hardest way.
i do believe in getting back at those involved, yet, i am also one who says history repeats itself and violence cannot stop violence. i look at that flag every chance i get and just hope to god/ess its still there tomarrow and i am still free.
I ask you all to think about those whose life has ultimately changed, i ask you to donate blood and volenteer or donate money, or anything along the lines of americas needs. We might be strangers but, right now, we are all feeling the same thing and, it is only humanic to help how we can
i hope to wake up in the morning, get on my bus, go back to my school and hug each and everyone of my friends and my enemies. not because i am friends with them, but, because they have a place in this world and if they werent here, there would be a gap and another silenced voice.


It Has Been Announced That Casualties Will Not Exceed Twenty Thousand People... Sep 12th. at 9:26:24 pm UTC

Thunderchilde (Crystal City, Missouri US) Age: 45 - Email


It has been announced that casualties will not exceed twenty thousand people. I doubt we will ever know for sure the final tally of this catastrophe.

We should all send our wishes for them and their families.

For now, we need to pull together.......Pagan, Christian, Muslim, etc.... to deal with the necessary tasks at home. It is shockinly refreshing to see our representatives putting aside politics to deal with this. It will be necessary for us to do the same with our religious differences. It should also be remembered that the prime suspect behind these acts sees himself as a religious man. We need to make sure that we aren't following in his tracks by the desire for revenge.

It looks as if our government has it's act together and is getting the puzzle pieced together. Let them do their work. Keep on them to make sure this attack isn't allowed to quietly be forgotten.

And remember, if you have given blood in the last two days, you are eligible again in eight weeks. It is going to be just as urgent then as it is now because there are thousands of injured as well.

Blessings to all.


It's 36 Hours Later And I Am Still In A State Of... Sep 12th. at 9:31:43 pm UTC

Flidais Runs-With-Wolves (Lowell, Massachusetts US) Age: 20 - Email


It's 36 hours later and I am still in a state of shock, but grief and anger are slowly taking over. Never in my wildest dreams had I ever expected a tragedy of this magnitude. Work and school may continue as normal, but I am saddened by the fact that the lives of those who have been personally affected by this event will never be the same.

Should we bomb suspected countries? No, no, a thousand times no. To do so would be the redux of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Cambodia. Innocent men, women, and children would be killed. It's horrible enough knowing that our federal government's sanctions against Iraq and Cuba are murdering the innocent.

I pray that the kind Mama Goddess will bring Her boundless love, compassion, and confort to those whose loved ones lives were cut short. The Great Mother is indeed kind, this I know.

May the Lady and Her Lord bless each and every one of you.


I Was Stunned To Wake Up To The News Of The Attacks... Sep 12th. at 9:32:40 pm UTC

Catherine (Blenheim, New Zealand) Age: 18


I was stunned to wake up to the news of the attacks. Even more stunned to hear the reactions of the officials to the attacks. I was brought up amongst Quakers, and these 'promises' of retaliation go entirely against the grain that I was raised with. I hope that the President and his staff, aswell as the other Heads of State realise that violence is never the way. There is a way to obtain Justice without 'punishment' which reeks of war and unnecessary pain inflicted on the innocent.
I live in NZ, and so am a bit out of the way, and how I can help is a question. I see the need for O negative blood - which I have, but can I give it from here?? So instead I light candles every day for the victims, for those that have the decision making about what to do next, for the rescue workers, for those that have lost family and friends and may not even know if they are safe.
I hope that those in charge make just, loving decisions, and that the world can move on!


I Am Deeply Shocked And Appalled At The Actions Of Our Fellow... Sep 12th. at 9:39:57 pm UTC

Jennifer R (Middletown, Ohio US) Age: 20 - Email


I am deeply shocked and appalled at the actions of our fellow human beings! What can make a person so angry that they have to kill others? I pray and light candles everyday and hope that they find more alive. I will never forget this horror for the rest of my life. I send out my heart and love to those who lost and to the lost.


I Cant Say Much. I Watched The Whoel Thing Hapen When I... Sep 12th. at 9:41:05 pm UTC

Jenn Ficentise (NEW YORK , Brooklyn, New York US) Age: 22 - Email


I cant say much. I watched the whoel thing hapen when I woke at 9 am that morning. I saw the second plane crash intot he buiildng and I was shocked. My heart sank. With calls from my loved ones not to go into work...which in about 1 mile fromt he towers, I went in. I work at St.Vincents hospital and thought I coudl helpin some way. So I left. My train passed the NYC skyline and I saw thw towers, smoking like hell. It was scary. but i got to work fine and as I walked out of the subway I walked down 6th ave. and thousdands of peopel were standing in the streets..looking up at the towers, becasue you can clearly see them... oir you could! They were smoking .. very scary. Then the first one collapsed as I was in work watching it ont he tv. Screams were heard from outside the building from onlookers. Then 30 mins later the second tower came down. I had famil yin that building. they are fine. One was even at ground zero workign at a plant right by THE towers. He saw peoepl jumping out of the wIndow. It was a horrible sight for him. Thanks the gods he is alright. i THank the gods for all those who made it out of there. But I pray for those lost and their families who are dealign with the missing and dead. I pray for all thos eeffected, all those who now feel so vulnerable. When the towers came down.. i started a shield around NYC... then aroudn the country. We all need to focus our energy. I made a distress call to all witches that day, and I am sure you all heard! Thank you for all your love and healing energy to us all.
I just want this to end. The paina nd suffering. I do not want any more peopel to suffer. But I do want those who did this to suffer. with no mercy from the Gods. May they deal with them with swift justice.
I have been doignmy magick since yesterdy and i will contunie to do so. My love and thanks to all.
Love,
Jenn
)O(


I'm Still In Shock. This Is Not The Way To Get One's... Sep 12th. at 9:41:43 pm UTC

Jack Wood (Daytona Beach, Florida US) Age: 60 - Email


I'm still in shock. This is not the way to get one's grievences answered. If you don't like us there are other ways to express that feeling.


My Lover Work Me Up At 930 That Morning To Tell Me... Sep 12th. at 9:55:39 pm UTC

Rboert Velasquez (Chicopee, Massachusetts US) Age: 21 - Email


My lover work me up at 930 that morning to tell me to watch the tv. i thoghu something had happeend to him, its almost as if it had. What are we all to do in this horrid time? the feelings of anger towards whoever did it, shuold we retaliate with such fierceness or shuold we sit bakc and not give more violence with this violence, how should we all feel as a people. I know the catholic church is somewhat denouncing the violence we as a nation have pormised to those who shattered our lives. Let us all ban together to help each other cope with this atrocity and pray to the mother that all this gets resolved as soon as possible so we all can start rebuilding our lvies. My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones and to the friends and families of those involved. Also to the people who have volunteered all their time to help out around the country.
Blessed be
-Rob V.


It Is The Day After All I First Heard About What Happened... Sep 12th. at 9:56:29 pm UTC

Lilith Ravenmoon (Americus, Georgia US) Age: 22 - Email


It is the day after all I first heard about what happened over the radio at work, and I am still sickened and horrified by what happened. I ask Lilith to grant swift justice on those responsible, and wisdom on our leaders to see away to overcome this tragedy without anymore innocent blood being spread. We need to punish ONLY those responsible...going to war with an entire country would only result in the lose of more innocent life.

I also want to address something that disturbs me greatly, something that has happened since the bombings...the growing anti-Muslim hysteria that has been spreading. I have seen several anti-Islamic graffiti in my hometown and been in one chatroom on Yahoo where people were gathering to go to the Islam chat and bash the Muslims there. I know a lot of Muslims...most are peace-loving, law-abiding people who would never think of doing things like that. Actions like this are a result of poor judgement and pure bigotry...first off, we still don't know who's responsible, though we have a good idea. Second, even if bin Laden or someone else is behind this, he is one man. It is one small group. They do not represent all of Islam.

I am not crazy about the Islamic religion, but I know condemning an entire collective of people for the actions of one person or group is wrong. I think it is up to us level-headed thinkers to spot these people spreading this anti-Islamic bull and ask them if they thought about the large number of Muslims who have died yesterday morning. Then ask them if they think they are being any better than the monsters who did this and if they aren't doing exactly what the terrorists want them to do...namely, give in to hysteria and create division.

We need unity right now, more than ever, not division.

May the Lady guide and bless us all, take care of the souls of the victims, and help see that justice is served.


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