The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
||This Page Viewed: 8,220,081
Vox Q Stats|
Times Viewed: 32,767
Lurker/Post Ratio: 214 to 1
Question of the Week: 95 - 1/19/2003
How Do You Feel About War?
‘Yes I'm talking about this war dance/ A patriotic romance./And I know all you poets/Have seen it all before…’ – Colin Moulding, XTC
Colin: ‘The words were originally prompted by the Falklands War in 1982. But it was too much on one piece of history. Then along came the Persian Gulf War and I put the revised lyrics to a new piece of music. It was time to bring war out of the closet again.’
And again, it would seem. How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?
Do your political leanings influence how you feel?
Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?
| Reponses: There are 153 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| So Wrong ... ||Jan 20th. at 11:44:42 pm EST|
|Luna (Clearwater, FL) ||Age: 17 - Email |
I saw a very interesting bumper sticker that said "War does not determine who is right, only who's left." I agree with that entirely! I have never agreed with war, so my discovery of Wicca had nothing to do with these views. Personally, I don't see how anyone with a heart and conscience could applaud war and death! No matter what, there will always be terrorism. Killing the terrorists makes them martyrs to others, and the idea of terrorism thrives.
My only wish is that someday all the countries of this Earth can find points of agreement and tolerance. What the world needs is negotiation and peace ... definitely not war.
| My Ramblings ||Jan 20th. at 11:53:30 pm EST|
|Starchilde (Wisconsin) ||Age: 20 - Email |
War is hell. I don't really want a war, because i am a firm believer in that famous phrase. I have not witnessed war and frankly i don't want to. But over the evolution of humankind, we have shown ourselves to be very proficient at it. It has also caused great techological advancements. The ancient Celts fought, the Gauls, the Germanic tribes, Mongolians, Japan had it's samurai and Shogun, the Spartans lived for it, the Romans perfected it, and now we, as an era, have made it more deadly. Horses, swords, shields, and bows have given way to nuclear missiles, tanks, and airstrikes. If we go to war, we could very well wipe out the entire planet.
I also believe that in some situations it is necessary. when two peoples have such a difference of opinion they cannot resolve with non-lethal means, then by all means, let them have at it. Its called survival of the fittest. That may very well be whats wrong with the world. We have gotten away from the natural order of things, where the smart and strong live another day and the loosers decompose without leaving a trace that they were here besides bones. its why we as a species have grown to be the dominant species. we are smarter, have better resources, bigger guns and, of course, thumbs that make us the top of the food chain. the only predators we have (as a species) is ourselves. all we can really do is sit back, hope our leaders keep us alive, and enjoy the fact that if we manage to wipe ourselves off the planet, then at least the animals have a chance to live and grow populous once more, unless all the nuclear fallout turns us into indiscriminate mutants that kill every thing insight, but don't mind me i have a tendancy to read to many books and a tendancy to ramble as you have just read.
| No ||Jan 21st. at 1:09:06 am EST|
|Alan (Albuquerque) ||Age: 46 - Email |
A lawyer once told me that in civil litigation if a trial occurred than the process had broken down. What he was saying was that if the parties had not recognized their best possible result ealier and settled on it, then one or both were being stupid. War is correlary.
| Make Love, Not War ||Jan 21st. at 3:22:54 am EST|
|Calitha (Redford, Michigan) ||Age: 40 - Email |
War is somtimes a neccessary thing. When we are attacked it is natural for us to defend ourselves, especially when we know who our attackers are. War to defend our freedom and way of life, that is a cause for war, but to attack innocent, or even not so innocent parties, as a way to raise your numbers in the polls, or to settle a score that started with your father, or to occupy and control a country for it's resources is wrong. So am i for or against war? That is a question not easily answered. I fear for those who make war, and i pray for the safe return of our soldiers, and i worry for the children of the countries at war. I think the Cranberries said it best, "in times of war we're all the losers there's no victory, we fight to kill and kill our brother."
Light Candles for Peace!
| OPPOSED ||Jan 21st. at 4:12:58 am EST|
|Moon (New York) ||Age: 41 - Email |
I believe this war is about oil and old scores to settle. I don't believe it is about our national security. Not only is it costly in monetary terms, but the fact that innocent people will die makes it far more costly. As far as I am concerned, not one human life is worth all the oil in the world. This is going to be a bloody, nasty fight....another Vietnam, if you will. We don't need to do this and we shouldn't. There are other alternatives and I think those should be depleted before we jump into a war.
| The First Casualty Of War........ ||Jan 21st. at 8:25:54 am EST|
|Rose (Canada) ||Age: 40 - Email |
The first casualty of WAR is TRUTH!!! Has this not been said often enough? Why then do people insist on the myth of military might is right. The U.S. became involved in the 2nd world war only after Pearl Harbour, but why did Japan strike at the U.S.
, was it not because the U.S. had been covertly doing things to Japan, cutting off trade routes for them to get supplies of food and oil. Yes it was! This came out in some recently declassified military documents. Iraq, has never been connected to 911 or the terrorist group Al-Quaeda, why bomb them ! Oil, pure and Simple, any one who believes other wise is a fool. About a year ago in Discover magazine, a science magazine, there was an article, 20 things that will be gone in 20 yrs.(Not exact words, but you get the idea)Guess what was on that list OIL, yes OIL, black gold, The U.S. uses huge quantites of oil, interestingly 60% of the oil used in the U.S. is to fuel the huge military. Ahhh to get their hands on Saddams oil, the oil soaked Bush gov't drools at the thought. Iraq is so weak from sanctions, they can't fight their
way out of a paper bag, the sanctions already kill 10's of thousands of Iraqui's a year the blood is already on everyones hands for that.Now the U.S wants to go in and Slaughter as many as 400,000 human beings,( that's quite a bit of collateral damage, don't you think?) Let the U.N. inspectors do their work and disarm Saddam, let the people of Iraq LIVE, Since the Iraq government poses no threat and has not threatened the U.S. in any way shape or form, but the U.S. threatens or terrorizes them, doesn't this make the U.S. a bunch of terrorists?
| Here's A Thought ....... ||Jan 21st. at 10:02:10 am EST|
|Etain (Columbus, Ohio) ||Age: 31 - Email |
From my own spritual tradition I'm against war. I think that if people want war it's usually coming from a man's point of view. (I'm not male bashing here so don't send me emails)I'm only pointing out the obvious that the men are in power & they are calling the shots. I would like to think that we would be evolving by now and come up with other solutions than war, but I honestly don't see this happening for a long time. We are doomed to repeat our history (of annihilating people) if we do not learn from the past. Not just our past as Americans, but the past of the collective world we live in.
My tradition values life. ALL LIFE. Just because our government thinks the bad guys are over in the Middle East doesn't make it so. We are bombarded with so much propaganda in the country that it makes the citizens wonder what is the REAL truth.(And some don't bother questioning it. A lot of our US citizens put their faith fully into the gov't and think they're doing a fine job.) My feeling is if you don't question authority you will go over the cliff with the rest of the sheep.
We're told THEY are the bad guys and we're the good guys defending democracy as it should be. We, the United States of America, are making the world a better place. Give me a break. There is so much hidden from us that we will never know the real truth... all in the name of national security. What if WE are the bad guys? Just look at our own history and what we've done to our own American citizens. Not to mention other cultures and peoples in different lands.
Ask yourself why there is a United Nations? And then ask youself why our government chooses to NOT pay their UN dues? We are constantly a police dog for the world but who is policing us. Well, apparently Homeland Securuty and Patriot Act will police it's citizens but who's policing OUR government. There's a reason why there needs to be checks and balances in life. People with power loose control of a realistic persective and become corrupt. In this case the checks and balances should come from the UN. But our government chooses to do what it wants in the name of democracy and global concern for all. That's crap. It's all the about the money and power.
I'm not sure if my political view has anything to do with how I feel about war, but I do think both majority parties are crazy and extreme. I think it may have been someone here that said "Democrats think the world is unfair and The Republicans make sure it stays that way".
So I am done ranting and if you've made it this far I thank you for reading my book of a response.
Peace and blessings
I'm paraphrasing but:
"If everyone took the saying 'an eye for an eye' literally the world would be blind"~~ Gandhi
| Sadness ||Jan 21st. at 10:06:03 am EST|
|Rose (Boston, MA) ||Age: 25 - Email |
This is a tough question for me to answer, because on one hand, one of my patron deities is the Morrigan, the Irish war Goddess, and on the other hand, I abhor violence.
A story: I was living in Canada on 11 September 01. It was my first day back for a new semester of grad school. Everything was looking good, it seemed. I was scared, shocked, and horrified when I heard the news. I didn't go to school or work that day, I stayed in my apartment and watched the news. My teachers and my boss were very understanding, as were my classmates. I spent most of the next few months trying to explain "The American Perspective" to my friends, and getting into long-winded debates, because everyone looked to me, as the lone American in the group, to explain what Bush was thinking. I also tried to explain the possible reasons why the attack took place (thanks to class work on modern Islam in the Third World). It was after winter break that my attitude changed. I went to my parents', and our neighbor had decorated his house by stringing an American flag Christmas light set from the porch, and parking his Harley in front. My brother began singing "Osama got run over by a reindeer", and I saw a sign in another neighbor's window that read "America Bless God." No, that is not a typo, I went back to that house to double, and triple check. I thought to myself, that is the attitude that landed us in this mess in the first place.
After that, I stopped trying to explain "The American Perspective." There was none. The so-called War on Terror was a knee-jerk reaction: "We done been bombed. We better go get us some revenge." It seemed more like the Hatfields and McCoys than anything else. It disgusted me. It still does. This isn't a war. Unless it has happened secretly, I don't believe that Congress has _declared_ war. If Bush wanted to get rid of Hussein and Bin-Laden, then he could have. It would not have taken years, and been this drawn out.
What we have now is not a war, but a propaganda campaign. It is a way to boost popularity and oil prices. If there is a ground war, then it will occur at the best time to ensure Bush's re-election. When it is over, innocent civilians will be dead, and so will a few soldiers. America will be more of an isolationist, jingoist country than before. More of our citizens will be subjected to detentions and registrations. More of our civil liberties will be taken away.
If a real, physical threat existed, then I believe that we should fight. We should not fight to increase popularity or bank accounts. We should not fight to "save the economy". Physical force is the last resort. One should never be the instigator. Defend yourself, your home, your country, but there is no such thing as pre-emptive defense. There should always be a diplomatic solution.
| I Have More To Say ||Jan 21st. at 10:22:06 am EST|
|jade (canada) ||Age: 16 - Email |
i normally don`t write twice, but a lot of people seem to be having problems with my opinion. i want to say that my comment was not out of anger, but out of passion. this is a topic that i feel very strongly about. i respect all you people who have family or friends that wahve gone to war, and i do not think that all americans are dumb and blind. but my opinion stands. this war should even exist, there is no point, no profit, except for the u.s., they get the oil. what you must understand is that there are two sides to every story, i based my opinion on facts from both sides. i did somme research. a lot of people ignore the other side, and accept the truth that they are told. i do not hate americans, but i believe that the american gouvernement, and bush, are inefficient. i don`t want this war, i don`t want any war! i want a chance to grow up and raise my kids, and have a family. if thing keep on going the way they are, the way bush is making them go, there will be no world to live in, just a bunch of corporations. this is to the person who said i should be thankful for being able to "speak such profane insults", yes i do thank them. if the gouvernement in the u.s. was efficient, and not greedy, i would have nothing to complain about. obviously this is a global problem, there have been protests all over the world to oppose this "war". and i agrre for what they stand for. i believe that wicca helps you broaden your horizons, why are so many people so narrow-minded, unable to seek the REAL truth. i hope that some of you had a chance to visit the website i mentionned before. and if youy have any problems with what i said, feel free to e-mail me. i will be glad to hear your comments directly! maybe you could learn a thing or two from me. and once again , my opinion stands firm. the states want to be the supreme power of the world, we should do anything we can to save the world from them. dear mr. president, i think you`re absolutely insane! and you have no idea what you`re doing, your just a greedy man who wants to impress your daddy! too bad you couldn't do that in school, with your low iq and everything!
| Why? ||Jan 21st. at 10:46:30 am EST|
Why are so many people so narrow minded? Think about whats really going on.. I value life as much as the next person but not when their threating to kill me and my family. Most of my family is or has been in the millitary. I had family killed in 9/11 and in the gulf. You people with your views of life blinding whats going on around you. Get a clue Americans are dying over some god and some guy. If you dont want war move to China, or wait till someone you love gets killed. Then wait and see how quick your views will change
| Complicated Issue ||Jan 21st. at 11:01:28 am EST|
|Rowan (the Deep South) ||Age: 38 - Email |
I can speak for myself only but I believe in freedom and I believe we have to protect what we have because it is pretty much like elementary school, a bigger kid will take your stuff if you don't stand up for your rights.
This doesn't mean that I think everything that the US has done throughout it's history has been right, on the contrary, I think back to some blunders that stagger the mind. I also believe other countries have done some terrible things. Or has any country done anything? Our world is made up of individuals that make mistakes frequently, I myself have done some really stupid things and I continually amaze myself at the trouble I can get myself into. People, individuals, make those mistakes, everyone is responsible for their actions.
I don't know any politicians personally, (I think that speaks well of my judgement right there!), but I don't think we can expect miracles from any elected official because he/she has to take up where the last one left off and there are so many variables to consider. For example, if we are friendly with one country, another country may not like it and they may get jealous! I don't mean to trivialize this but could YOU do better? As for myself, I don't think I have nearly enough knowledge/information about all those variables. If we do one thing, it affects another like a chain reaction.
I don't know as much as I could about governments but I do know people and if an ambitious leader sees the US weakening in any way, they will pounce. King of the Mountain is a game we used to play as kids, remember? It's the same.
What we can do as citizens of the US and as citizens of other countries is to make our voice known, write your congressman/representative/leader/king/dictator/whatever, let them know how you stand on important issues. One thing is for sure, the leader would like to remain popular with the people and mob does rule.
I am all for getting the hell out of other countries and staying home for the next 100 years. We have so much in this country, so much to be thankful for. If we don't protect it though, we are saying what our forefathers did wasn't necessary. My friends, one of the reasons this country was founded was for religious freedom. If we'd all stayed in Europe, we might not be able to speak our minds on this website! Something to think about.
If you are a student of History, you can pretty much see why things are happening the way they are. No, war doesn't make sense to me but I would fight for my freedoms and to protect my family. We should pray for our elected officials, that they will make the right decisions regarding our future.
By the way, just a question to all the US citizens reading and responding here, Do YOU vote?
| No War! ||Jan 21st. at 11:47:15 am EST|
I think that war is the most useless, foolish, and foul thing ever created. I believe that all the weapons are terrible and I wish that science had not discovered most of them. Now, I understand that this war might help the ecconomy and all, but that just angers me. Why does killing mean that people will be able to get a job? It doesn't make sense. I'm the first to admit that I am very politically illiterate, so maybe that is why I don't understand.
I also hate the idea of war because not only do innocent people die, but so do plants and animals that just happen to be in the way. It is a completely painful process and I am very angry that this country is throwing itself in that direction. I wish that the people in charge could learn that killing their citizens is only a way to temporarily end a conflict. There has to be another way!!! To bad no one cares to discover what that might be.
Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2014 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.
Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.
Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wrenâ€™s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witchesâ€™ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.
Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.
Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.