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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,835,856  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Am Heartened And Saddened At The Same Time By The Posts... Sep 13th. at 2:03:10 pm UTC

Kila Nightrain (Washington, District of Columbia US) Age: 30


I am heartened and saddened at the same time by the posts I have read on this list. As an American of Muslim descent, I feel traumatized, outraged, hurt by the bombings. By the narrow-mindedness, ignorance of people who would lump all Muslims with these monsters, I am angered and saddened. Islam is a beautiful religion that preaches peace, equality and self-defense. Equating what these people have done with Islam is like equating Timothy McVeigh with all white men. It is illogical and it is wrong.

I agree that we need to bring the people who did this to justice. But adding our hatred to their hatred will solve nothing. Those who celebrate, I feel, have been numbed to humanity. Their lives are taken with impunity and they take other's lives with impunity...thus, life to them is cheap.

Those of you who posted hateful messages about Muslims and Islam, I have this to say to you. Your characterizations are no more accurate or fair than those of the celebrators in the Middle East. Muslims, my family, died in the WTC bombings, Muslims are helping by defending this nation in the military and in the police, they are doctors helping by saving lives. How dare you equate them all with the bombers?! It is the utmost hypocrisy, to pledge the creed "do no harm" and then to turn around and advocate the bombing to smithereens of countries with countless innocent people who probably do not support their leaders.

And for those of you who advocated our taking over of the oil resource rich countries, it is exactly this foolishness that causes people the world over to hate Americans. Please, do us all a favour and try not to reflect the worst of our faults.

As for myself, I pray for the lives lost, I pray in support of the helpers, the peace-makers, and I uphold them as examples of the best of America!


Light A Candle For Unity!though Terrorists May Have Struck Out At... Sep 13th. at 2:08:10 pm UTC

Mary (New York, New York US) Age: 40


LIGHT A CANDLE FOR UNITY!

Though terrorists may have struck out at us as
Americans, let us come together and show our unity. Let
us show that though we may have been hurt, they cannot
dim the light which burns in the hearts of all Americans.

ON THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2001, AT 10:30PM (EASTERN
TIME), 9:30 PM (CENTRAL) AND 8:30PM (PACIFIC), walk out
your door and light a candle or lantern to show the
world that our spirit burns bright. Gather with your
loved ones, friends and neighbors and let your light
burn in the night to show that we are united and that we remain
strong.

Please pass this on to anyone you know. Print it up and
pass it to anyone who may not have Internet access.
Post it on message boards, clubs, news stations -
anywhere and everywhere there are PROUD AMERICANS.


I've Been Reading The Thoughts Of Others And It's Been Wonderful To... Sep 13th. at 2:08:30 pm UTC

ldydrk (SLC, Utah US) Age: 26 - Email


I've been reading the thoughts of others and it's been wonderful to feel that I'm not alone in this. That there are so many others out there who understand. I don't feel rage or anger. I feel incredible sadness. I feel pride in those men who gave their lives to end up crashing the plane in a deserted area of PA. I feel sorrow for the people who leapt from the 100th story of the Towers, trying to excape the fire. I feel overwhelming sadness for the families and friends...

I don't see this as an American issue, but as a human issue. A life issue. I understand the rage that so many others feel, even if I don't share in that. I want those who did it to experience justice, to be stopped from doing it ever again, but I don't believe the answer is to bomb an entire country or to lock up or harm Middle Easterners here... killing more innocents will not create balance... only more suffering. I don't want war, but I also don't think turning the other cheek is the answer...

I send my prayers out to the Goddess for healing & justice.


To All Of You Out There Out Of Nyc. Send You Light... Sep 13th. at 2:14:45 pm UTC

Mary (New York, New York US) Age: 40


To all of you out there out of NYC. Send you light and love to us. Pray and make spells for peace. Very few of you are from the city. Belive me we are more scared than any of you about future attacks. Every 5 minutes we are hearing of more and more bomb threats. People are still walking around dazed and the children are terrified. Light candles tonight at 10:30 Eastern Time and send us not only your love and light but send the Goddes in all her forms to us and the rest of the nation. Reflect on the lives lost and the lives destroyed not only here in NYC but the rest of the world. We can make change. Already large numbers of New Yorkers are meeting in parks and chanting, writing and praying together. Join us. Send love not thoughts of vindication. There is enough of that right here. Send love, send light, strength and logic. Send it to the President and to all of the Middle East. Ask the God to join with the Goddess in love and protection for her children not hatred and anger. Goddess Be with you all.


Well, It Is Now Two Days Later, And My Reactions Are Evolving... Sep 13th. at 2:19:50 pm UTC

Aedh Rua (New Richmond, Wisconsin US) Age: 35 - Email


Well, it is now two days later, and my reactions are evolving. Here are a few of them:

1. This was an attack not only on Christian America, but also on us, that is on Pagans/Heathens. There were almost certainly Pagans in the world trade center. There were almost certainly Pagans on at least one of the hijacked planes. Until now I had considered us to be neutral in a conflict between Moslems, Jews, and Christians. But no longer.

2. Ancient Celtic values include most of all an Firinne, called Uera in Gaulish, which means Truth, both in the sense of not-falsehood, but also in the sense of the cosmic order, and essential justice. Because of this, we cannot wage war against all Moslems, but only against those responsible.

3. There is an ancient institution called in Irish the "Cethern". This word means war-band, and is the origin of the Hiberno-English term "kern", meaning fighter. The Gaulish, by the way, is the unrelated word Corios, which has nonethless the same meaning. It was indeed possible to wage war against "aire 's a chethern", which is to say, against a noble and his war-band. It appears that "Osama bin Ladin 's a chethern" are behind the attacks. If that is proven, then we, as Pagans, are at war against this man and his followers.

4. That war must be waged with crogacht, which is to say, blood-thirst. This crime is such that there would be no honor in accepting compensation. We must kill, kill, and kill again, until that thrist is slaked, and until we know in our hearts that the war is over.

5. This means that we are temporarily allied to the Christians, and even the fundies. This is a very strange alliance, but no stranger, I suppose, than the alliance between the Russians and Americans in World War II. As far as I am concerned, our alliance is about that close, too. The thought of "Dubya" with war powers is an Orwellian nightmare. Even as we do what we can to support American retaliation against "Osama 's a chethern", we had better make sure that we aren't giving away our own freedom in the process. When the war against Osama ends, so does our alliance with the fundies. They have hurt our children, and, though I don't want to hate them, I will not forget that, or ever be comfortable with their having so much as a drop of political power.

6. I also have to admit that America had something to do with causing this mess. The U.S. really did train and arm this fanatic, back in the Cold War, and the West as a whole has allowed the whole Middle East mess to fester until it is now at an almost hopeless point. When the war is over, we need to do what we can, without arrogance, and listening to all sides, to help bring a real and just peace.

7. There are a lot of people still suffering from the attack itself. We must do what we can to help them. My blood is for various reasons useless. Therefore, I must give money. But we must all give money, blood, or work.

This is what I feel right now.


First Let Me Say The Humanity Of This Tragic Chaos Is Almost... Sep 13th. at 2:24:39 pm UTC

Aradia Ravensign (Coral Springs, Florida US) Age: 23 - Email


First let me say the humanity of this tragic chaos is almost to much to bare. When you see two buildings fall, you are in awe and shock. When you see the pentagon destruction, your are horrified for the nation. When you see people leaping from the floors, holding hands, strangers bleeding in the streets, dead bodies lying on the ground, screams of terror ringing in the air, children crying for their parents, wifeÕs crying for their husbands, brothers and sisters of mine, of all of us, crying out in one voice, WHY! Those are the things that make us all cry for strangers, brothers and sister that suffer thru this terrible pain.

Let us remember and give us the courage to not return to our barbarism and serve the same cruelty shown to us. Let us remember that we are horrified because we live in a society that considers ourselves the Òcivilized free worldÓ and how could these things happen here? We CAN NOT bomb other countries where it may be possible to kill other brothers and sisters of ours, in this family of our human race. No matter how much we are angry, in pain, or terrified, we must remember what we stand for even when these enemies face us. Let us remember ÒThe land of the free and the home of the braveÓ and Òwith liberty and justice for ALL.Ó

May the Goddess Bless and protect all of you and your families.


I Have Been Talking And Writing And Typing About This Since Yesterday... Sep 13th. at 2:36:42 pm UTC

Willow Polson (Groveland, California US) Age: 35 - Email


I have been talking and writing and typing about this since yesterday... the day before I couldn't... glued to the television, both unable to look away and hungry for more details. About the tragedy. About the collapse and the burning. About who may have done this. About the ramifications for the country and other nations as well. But I still don't know quite what to say.

I haven't read the responses of others here yet, but I'm sure they will express the cavernous sickness and sorrow we all feel as well as the anger toward who may have done this. I echo those feelings as well, especially as I work with many deities -- Kwan Yin, Lakshmi and Kali, Sekhmet, Bast, Het Heret and Auset. The compassion and the rage... I see both sides so well as a Gemini and follower of Ma'at. But that is not why I'm writing.

10 or 15 years ago I felt something... a dark grey cloud on the horizon. I told no one of this feeling... "It's just me" I thought. Then the image solidified into a tattered grey cloak stretching across the sky, smoke and chaos and destruction underneath in its wake. Within a few months I started hearing others talk about this feeling that something was coming... a Great Change. I tentatively asked what they saw, and they saw a dark cloud on the horizon, stretching across the sky...

Over the years the feeling has grown. Flowed and ebbed, but still there in the back of my consciousness. Other feelings have come to me, converged, and joined the ominous grey tattered cloak. Its time has come.

Someone on an email list I'm on said that we are at the Crossroads. Hecate is holding her lamp aloft, lighting the way but not guiding us to our final decision. That is up to us. But which way is the right way? We can see the paths stretching off into the lightless distance, but we cannot know until we arrive at the next Crossroads when things along the path have made it clear whether we have chosen rightly or wrongly. Perhaps there is no wrong way or right way. The Web of Life is so intricate... how will we find our way past the Great Tangle? Who and what will still be standing when it's over?


My First Post Was Short, So Shall This One Be. I Am... Sep 13th. at 2:42:14 pm UTC

Eric Weiss (Nashua, New Hampshire US) Age: 48 - Email


My first post was short, so shall this one be. I am a Native New Yorker, Manhattan to be exact. I moved away for peace and quiet, I now live in New Hampshire. Yet on Tuesday my spirit was torn from NH and was thrust back into NYC. My brother is with IBM, he is safe, but was closer to the scene than he lead us to believe, he lost friends & co-workers. We have all lost friends and family, it's just starting to sink in. I follow a Norse/Wiccan path. I think its time for a healing ritual tonight. As I said before, Goddess help us all.


My Deepest Sympathies And Thoughts Lie With All Those Who Have Lost... Sep 13th. at 2:44:29 pm UTC

Ariele Whitesilver (Nottingham, England., England UK) Age: 19


My deepest sympathies and thoughts lie with all those who have lost loved ones in this most terrible act, and with the brave rescue workers who continue to search unceasingly for survivors, we can all only pray to whichever Gods/Goddess's we wish to that more survivors will be found.

Everyone in America should know that the British people share in your loss, as we too are beginning to realise that many of our own citizens died that day. For me, I can only imagine how many Americans are feeling - I still cannot fully comprehend it and I live on the other side of the Atlantic.

Like others here I agree that the need for justice should not be directed against those who simply share the same faith as the terrorists or look the same.... but to those who are responsible, who did fund this, who did organise this. For these people, it is clear, justice is coming. Whatever action is taken I fully support, no matter what its form.

May all those who have been affected by this find hope in these dark times.


I Read The Hateful Messages Written Everywhere Online And I Wasn't Surprised... Sep 13th. at 2:44:33 pm UTC

Shayde (Martinez, California US) Age: 20 - Email


I read the hateful messages written everywhere online and I wasn't surprised. Americans reacted as I had expected. While I am moved by the out and out heroism of people pulling together to save lives, it is all drowned out by a hateful, racist cacophany. This is the only forum I've read that did not replse me. I was moved that most of our posts showed pagans doing what we could physically and magically for people. But I am apalled when I see pagans (the kindest people on earth right?) speaking of bombing and killing and taking the lands and resources of other people. What is wrong with you? You are just as heartless as the filth that perpetrated this act. Yes I'm angry. So angry when I got to my altar I began to lay a curse on the heads of the individuals who were behind this and still alive. But I managed to calm myself enough to petition the gods to bring these people to justice. Yes I'm angry but filling Afghanistan with charred bodies will not bring people back. Afghan americans were fighting the fires and healing the injured! They pay taxes, raise children, and defend this country and they are just as American as white little me! And they deserve to be safe as we all do! Islam didn't do this. The Arab world didn't do this. Did you all own slaves? Did you kick native americans off of their home? I didn't but my anscestors probably did, and I have to live with that and learn from their horrid mistakes but I don't want to be punished for them.

Goddess teach us mercy and heal us all


Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:19 Amsubject: Fw: Candle Lighting... Sep 13th. at 2:48:35 pm UTC

George (Clifton, New Jersey US) Age: 37


Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: FW: Candle Lighting- Friday night

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----
Subject: Candle Lighting-Please participate

Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or step out
of
your establishment and light a candle. We will show the world that
Americans are strong and united together against terrorism. Please pass
this
to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach everyone across the
United States quickly.

The message: WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.

We need press to cover this-- we need the world to see.


Hi!i'm Keur From Italy.i'm Working In Bologna's Airport As A... Sep 13th. at 2:53:23 pm UTC

Keur (Bologna,Italy) Age: 23 - Email


Hi!I'm Keur from Italy.
I'm working in Bologna's airport as a Security.
I feel the same things you feel, i feel sorry for this enormous tragedy, 'cause it is a tragedy for all humanity.
I wantend just to say that I'm with you all in this terrible moments.
I'm an aecletic wiccan, and I want to pray for those who suffer and died and I want to do an Healing Ritual.
So much love,
Keur


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