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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 8,530,306  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 61

Lurker/Post Ratio: 537 to 1

Question of the Week: 19 - 12/18/2000

What do YOU of our newest entry into the Presidential Political Pool?

Okay, the United States has a new President-Elect. And that's all that we here at TWV are gonna say about that! What do YOU think about our latest entry into the Presidential Political Pool?

 Reponses:   There are 61 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


As A Lifelong Texan, I'v Been Witness To Dubya's Pathetic Attempt At... Dec 25th. at 2:22:50 am EST

Aisling Keledy (Arlington, Texas US) Age: 43


As a lifelong Texan, I'v been witness to Dubya's pathetic attempt at Govenorship. Even his daddys money and connections couldnt keep his business dealings solvent. When the tornado struck Ft.Worth, Arlington and surrounding areas, he never even made an appearance (what a photo op missed!), then waited over a month to pick up the phone to ask for federal assistance.All bad enough, but then hearing him on the evening news state that Wicca, in his opinion, is not a religion and should be removed from tax exemption, set a chill through me.

The real problem is, he always changes his opinion to suit the crowd he's standing before. Its a sign of personal weakness, and so he now surrounds himself with very strong military leadership to be the actual movers and shakers. I dread the thought of a puppet presidency and the inevitable arms buildup at the expense of the poor, women and children. I give him credit, though. He has quite a multitalented family when it comes to political chicanery; Judge Scalia's sons are employed by Bush Sr. Hello? Conflict of interest? All in all, Daddy, George and Jeb stole it fair and square.


I Really Don't Like The Decision Of The Courts On This Issue... Dec 25th. at 5:38:01 pm EST

SilverWillow (Cooperstown, New York US) Age: 13


I really don't like the decision of the courts on this issue. I know I can't vote yet, but the outcome of this election really makes me angry. The pagan community can expect a ton of persectution, be attacked, even possibly lose the status that we are a group that practices an acutal religion. We will be experiencing the new milennium with a president who is electric-chair happy, is a redneck, and wears cowboy boots to cabinet meetings! No offence to anyone who supports this guy, but he stinks!


I'm Torn Between Being Happy And Being Upset. On One Hand, My... Dec 26th. at 8:42:58 am EST

Ariadne Jarnsaxa (Norfolk, Virginia US) Age: 33


I'm torn between being happy and being upset. On one hand, my husband is in the military, so the new president will be good as far as my roof and my refrigerator are concerned, but hopefully, he is an educated man and will come around to realize that my religion is a religion and not just a hobby or something to be taken lightly.


Being A Born And Raised, True Texan, I Am Ok With Bush... Dec 27th. at 1:20:09 pm EST

Lady Ann (Albuquerque, New Mexico US) Age: 41 - Email


Being a born and raised, true Texan, I am ok with Bush. Being a Republican at heart, I am ok with Bush. Being a witch, "newbie", I am not sure that any of the politically correct politicians can fulfill my needs.


Well All I Can Say Is That IÕm Glad ItÕs All Over... Dec 27th. at 7:19:52 pm EST

Marcus Whitehart (Kansas City, Missouri US) Age: 21 - Email


Well all I can say is that IÕm glad itÕs all over. Sadly though I didnÕt want either candidate, it was like trying to choose between a pack of hungry lions and the burning stake. I feel though we ended up with the lesser of the two evils. GWB is at least straight forward with his intentions. While Gore changed with the winds of public opinion. Rather fight the enemy I can see than the one hidden in the grass, who just might be masquerading as Òour friendÓ to win our approval.


First Off Shrub Is Not The President. The Vote In Florida Was... Dec 27th. at 11:39:10 pm EST

Deirdre (Menasha, Wisconsin US) Age: 36


First off Shrub is NOT the President. The vote in Florida was stolen plain and simple. We had a judical coup. Justice Scalia's son and Clarence Thomas' wife both work for the Rebuplican party. Conflict of interst anyone?

I fear for my county and my fellow pagans and witches.


For The Record The Whole Election Process Frightened And Saddened Me. Both... Dec 29th. at 5:00:38 pm EST

Jennifer S. (Spokane, Washington US) Age: 21 - Email


For the record the whole election process frightened and saddened me. Both of these candiates are career politicians who only have their own welfare and pursuit of power in mind. After researching the options, I found that the ONLY political party out there that would fight for, protect, and even reflect my religious and personal beliefs was the Liebertarian party. All my fellow pagans, you should look into this party. They reflect one of our most sacred beliefs, that if you are not harming others, you may do as you will! They are all about personal responsibility and freedom, true freedom in all it's forms, something very rare in today's society!
Anyways, my feelings about George Bush are that I am thankful that the congress is as divided as it is so that he will be unable to do any real damage to our freedoms during his term, and hopefully the next time we are faced with electing a president, people will be wiser to what they are truely being presented with, look beyond the masks and propaganda, and vote their hearts instead of their fears.

Blessed Be


This Is To All The "repub" Pagans Out There. For Many Years... Dec 30th. at 6:25:19 am EST

J. Michael (yuba city, California US) Age: 22


This is to all the "repub" pagans out there.

For many years, I thought the idea of a republican witch was insane and impossible. How can anyone who belongs to a religion in which the Earth is held sacred, the Goddess is recognized, money means little, and human and animal rights mean MUCH, belong to a political party whose entire platform is " Lower Taxes, Women Can't Choose, Let's Leave Cleaning Up The Environment To Industry(direct quote from reagan), Fur Is NOT Murder, Animal Testing Is A-OK, and last but not least Witches And Pagans are EVIL!"?

Never mind the "Christian"Coalition, Pat Robertson, Georgie Porgy-excuse me "George W. Porgy", the KKK, and Fundies.(think any of these are democrats?)No

Then, of course there's the Burning Times.Yes, I know they were before the repubs but, those same people would be and are republicans today. In fact, one of the "reasons" for slavery was to show the pagan african peoples the "blessings" of christianity(ironic, huh?).

Democrats, on the other hand have a long history of fighting for the rights of the downtrodden and oppressed.Sure, they are not perfect(duh) but, they're a heck of a lot closer than the alternative.

If the supreme court falls to the republicans any hopes of Women'sRights , Animal Rights, Gay Rights, and Paganism gaining acceptence or even witchcraft remaining a legally protected religion are delusions.Georgie Porgy scares the heck out of me and I'm not afraid to admit it. The "Chrispy" Right is against us- plain and simple.Why would any person that calls her or himself pagan and means it stand with them?

I certainly could not. I thought that pagans were the one group that couldn't be duped like that. I guess I was wrong.:-( Anyway, thanks for reading my tantrum, Happy Imbolc, and Blessed Be.

P.S. After four years of receiving social security- everything you've paid in, has been paid back. After that it's all welfare. Speaking of welfare, the lousey 300 dollars a month paid out to mothers and their children, all tolled only takes up ONE PERCENT of the national budget-including administrative costs, and always has been. That means that even if the entire welfare system were eliminated, there wouldn't be any tax decrease. Kinda makes their anti-welfare platform seem pecular, no?


The Whole Thing Makes Me Glad I Voted Libertarian. That Being Said... Dec 30th. at 12:56:27 pm EST

Tawaret the Amateur Wonk (Dallas, Texas US) Age: 27 - Email


The whole thing makes me glad I voted Libertarian. That being said, can both sides PLEASE turn down the rhetoric? Dubya would have been stupider than he looks if he accepted a manual recount under the circumstances offered by the Gore legal team (in heavily Democratic counties, no standards applied, and Democratic election judges can decide that anything short of a ham sandwich was a vote for Gore). Gore was stupider than he looked for not asking to recount the whole state (thus nullifying the above objections---Republican election judges would be counting the ham sandwiches, and vote manufacture on both sides would hopefully cancel each other out). Two things really bothered me about this whole mess: 1) Someone with the Gore campaign had to have good knowledge of clinical psychology to time the calls from the Texas phone bank. Memory is not a VCR recorder that goes straight to long-term memory. Your mind decides that which is important enough to go into long-term memory. I remember voting for Harry Browne. I don't remember whether he was number 3, 4, 5, 6, or 200 on my ballot. If someone gave me a falsified ballot, I could reconstruct a memory of darkening the wrong oval. Joe Palm Beach remembers voting for Gore, not which chad he punched---but a well-timed phone call can make him think he punched the wrong chad. This is IMHO a highly unethical use of this knowledge. 2) I have seen nothing but the utmost hypocrisy on BOTH sides of the political fence. Repubs, would the Electoral College be such a wonderful thing if Dubya lost the College, but won the popular vote? Dems, would the Supreme Court still be a bastion of partisanship if Gore won? I doubt it. Everybody's opinion as to who tried to or did "steal" the election is _directly related_ to who they voted for on November 8, and nobody wants to sit back and look at this objectively. It does not help things both that the Religious Reich sat on their original objections to Bush eeerily fast (makes you wonder what in the gods' names he promised them), or that the Gore campaign used a lot of scare tactics toward minority voters when it became obvious Nader wasn't dropping out (the veeery fortuitous timing of a certain Dubya quote making news the second time around comes immediately to mind).


Well I Have Read A Lot About How Many Of My Fellow... Dec 30th. at 3:28:32 pm EST

Margaret (Albuquerque, New Mexico US) Age: 19 - Email


Well I have read a lot about how many of my fellow pagans vited liberitarian or green; and I think that in many other elections that would have been my choice as well. However, from the very beginning we all knew that this would be a very close race. It was my first election, and I am very proud to say that I did exercize my right to vote, despite all of the people who tried to convince me otherwise. I voted democrat, just for the very fact that no matter how much I may not agree with Gore on certain issues, I would have gone to the ends of the world and back to see that Bush did not become president elect. I admire and appreciate all of those people who voted for Nader but at the same time that action just added more force to Bush's side. I personally think that all of the childish bickering that Gore and Bush displayed showed that neither of them are qualified to handle running the country, but unfortunately we do not have a system that can disqualify crybabies (or do we? I am still learning about all of this...) Perhaps now our country will think a lot more about who our candidates are and I think it is quite possible that we may see a lot of changes coming into play over the next 4-5 years!! At least I hope.... :o)


Great. We Now Have The Moral Equivalent Of A Child Taking The... Dec 30th. at 10:45:02 pm EST

Dana (Iota, Louisiana US) Age: 26 - Email


Great. We now have the moral equivalent of a child taking the controls of a Boeing 747. Whoo-ee. Hold on to yer cowboy hats.

To those who think Bush somehow has more integrity than Gore-the-professional-politician: You are truly blind. Bush was the one running on and on about how he is a "uniter, not a divider." But who called brother Jeb when it looked like the election was not going to go his way in Florida? At any time he could have stepped up to the mic and demanded a fair recount in Florida in the interests of constitutionality (what is the point of having the right to vote for ANYBODY if your vote is not counted?). He could have called off the dogs -- Katherine Harris, for instance -- but he did not. He is a spoiled child used to getting anything he wants in life even if he's not ready to handle it -- hell, he couldn't even make money in the oil business, and how hard is it to hire a geologist to find oil? And now we get to suffer through four years of him?

From _The Nation_: "Texas has executed 239 [death row inmates] since the Supreme Court revived the death penalty a quarter-century ago, and more than half (152) were executed after Bush became governor in 1995; his execution chamber has been by far the most active in the nation, killing an average of one prisoner every two weeks. One of Bush's first acts as governor was to reject the clemency plea for Mario Marquez, whose severe brain damage left him with an IQ of 60 and the skills of a 7-year-old. Although the Texas Senate is very conservative, it passed a bill to bar the execution of profoundly retarded prisoners; the House was about to approve it, too, when Bush blocked further action by saying, 'I like the law the way it is now.'"

["Death Trip: The American Way of Execution, " by Robert Sherrill, _The Nation_, Jan 8/15 issue, 2001. By the way, Clinton's hands are not clean either. I highly recommend reading the entire article, but not without lots of barf bags handy.]

This man of integrity has had absolutely no problem with people being sentenced to death even though they were retarded, even though their lawyers slept through their trials or were disbarred for malpractice later, even though it might have been a black man sentenced by an all-white jury. Yeah, that's some man of integrity. And now he leads our nation. I think. I'm not sure even *he* knows where he's going.

If this election taught us anything, it was that Ralph Nader was right: no appreciable difference between the Democrats and Republicans in policy. But there are some rather striking differences between Shrub and Gore: Shrub is an idiot, and Gore "the career politician" has been around long enough and had enough experience in government that, had he had an equivalent amount of experience in any other career field, employers would be tripping all over themselves to get at him.

I'm beginning to wonder why I didn't take up my English friend's invitation to move in with him... :::sigh:::


I'm Happy To Say I Voted For Gore. I'm Sad To Say... Jan 3rd. at 4:56:49 am EST

Jamie (Parkersburg, West Virginia US) Age: 24


I'm happy to say I voted for Gore. I'm sad to say, Bush is going to be the next resident of the White House. I've read the posts and there seems to be every type of reaction listed--hate it, accept it, don't care, accept it, and love it. I don't like Bush. I don't like what he stands for. I have a serious problem putting my country into the hands of a man who relied (by his own admission) on getting votes because he comes off as a likeable guy. Bush (along with the "experts") concedes that more people agree with Gore on the issues, but because of Clinton's reputation and Gore's public personality he would become the next President. To put it bluntly, Bush doesn't know his head from his daddy's ass--probably because that is where he stores his head. He cares not about my environment, my gender, or my "non-religion". How can I support that? He reminds me of a used car salesman. Slimey, sneaky, and manipulative. Although that might not be the real W Bush---could be daddy....I'm sorry but i find the man repulsive. He has made plans for our government that every expert says won't work. Put Social Security on the stock market? And just how do you plan to pay it out when those stocks drop (cause they always do, it's the nature of the stock market) Make abortion illegal? I doubt he'd say that if he had a 12 year old who was raped at the mall... Environmental issues? I think we all know his stance on that. And what about his personal past? Do I think it matters. Yes I do. What he does in his personal life is his own business as long as it stays personal. He wants to do drugs, that's his issue not mine(as long as he does it at home, and off the job of course). He wants to practice Christianity, that's his issue not mine. But when his issues become mine, I have a problem. When he drinks and drives, I have a very big problem. I've never done it myself and I never will...I've made many late night/early morning walks home from parties and bars. It doesn't just affect him anymore, it affects everyone he comes across when he is behind the wheel. And if this is just something everyone goes through--why wasn't he upfront about it? Why was his first line of defense Gore did it too! (Which was not a DUI but a speeding violation) Even before being declared the winner, Bush had a lawsuit brought against him for opening his mouth and proceeding to put his foot in it. Do I really want my President to call leaders in other country's offensive names? No thanks, I could do without the war(hey, they've been started over less). And is the fact that he doesn't consider Wicca to be a religion going to impact the lives of paegans? I think so. An immediate impact, probably not, a long term impact, quite possibly. While I respect his freedom of relegion, I also respect everyone else's--including those who chose not to practice any religion. And I expect the same from my President. I know many people who scoff at Gore and say they would only be reelecting Clinton. But I cast my vote for someone who knows what he's doing, who is capable of making decisions based on what is right, not on what is popular. Gore didn't start the recounts in Florida, Florida did. Florida law states that elections with less than 1% difference must be recounted. What I want to know is, why weren't they? I believe there was a serious conflict of interest in Florida, and I'm not alone. The Bush family insisted that all was right with the election process--nothing about it tainted a bit. So why did Jeb put together a task force to look into the "wrong doing" of the election? Why did he say on national tv that he wanted to make sure that this was investigated and that future elections were without these irregularities and questionable results? What's with the change of mind? And why did it come only AFTER Bush was declared the winner? W Bush comes from a family of idiots and I don't doubt he will disappoint the country in every way but one--I belive we will see truly great political humor over the next 4 years. At least I've got that to look forward too. But what more can you expect from a guy who can't find oil in Texas?


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