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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,879,423  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 263

Lurker/Post Ratio: 124 to 1

Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000

The Unresolved US Election

Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?

 Reponses:   There are 263 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


My Vote Went To John Hagelin. Living In New York, I Wasn't... Nov 10th. at 8:18:03 am UTC

Andrew Giamis (Binghamton, New York US) Age: 28 - Email


My vote went to John Hagelin. Living in New York, I wasn't afraid of G.W.B. taking the state so I voted my heart. I was hoping for Gore to win.

I would much rather see 'dubbya' stay in Texas, but I am willing to give him a chance if he finally does gain Florida. Gore supporters may have to either accept disappointment or remain bitter. The Constitution is on the side of Wiccans in the military and Congress is so evenly split that 'dubbya' will not have the support to push such a ban. Besides, we have voices. The COG website estimates over 700, 000 witches in the US and growing. That's large enough to be seriously taken notice of. As for me, I plan on speaking out loudly against dubbya's school vouchers, or drilling for oil in the Alaskan wild life refuge. I am still concerned about the Supreme Court.

I am unsure of my feelings towards the Palm Beach issue. I feel that people should have paid closer attention to their ballots when punching the holes. The rules are clear: vote for one canadite. However, voter human error does not explain 19, 000 people making the same mistake. Perhaps a revote would be in order.

The next president had a chance to make a serious difference in the direction of the country. However, because of this election, the next president will probably go down in history as a flop. I have my own preference as to which canidate is most diserving of this 'honor'. Either way, the losing party in 2000 will probably be the winning party in 2004.

Either way, the issue must be resolved quickly or the entire country will suffer.


To The Fury Of Many, I Voted For Nader. Granted, I Live... Nov 10th. at 9:00:21 am UTC

Jeff (Aurora, Colorado US) Age: 30


To the fury of many, I voted for Nader. Granted, I live in the state which Jim Dobson's fascist ideology calls home, so there was never any question that Bush would win here. Even so, if I had been in a "swing state, " I still would have voted for Nader. I'm sick to death of hearing how voting for a non-Republicrat is "throwing my vote away." There's not a dime's difference between Bush and Gore; they both serve the same corporate masters. The Clinton/Gore presidency, despite their boasts, did nothing for civil rights. Clinton supported DOMA; Leonard Peltier is still imprisoned for crimes he did not commit; two final words: Efraim Baca. The fact is, the corporate world will dictate policy, whether they do it via Bush or via Gore.

That said, the one thing which concerns me about a Bush presidency (and, despite obvious election fraud in at least one county of his brother's state, Bush will likely be the next president) is the quality of the rhetoric we must endure over the next four years. While Bush will do what corporate America tells him to and little else, he will strut and bluster to impress the Religious Reich (with credit to Isaac for that phrase; gods bless that curmudgeon). I am concerned that this will only help to mobilise the theonazis even more on state and local levels, giving them a sense of empowerment which may well result in increased harassment and violence against minorities (especially minority religions and the LGBT community). Under a Bush presidency, there is a greater danger of Matthew Shephard being a trend-setter instead of a warning against ignorance and hostility. The petty squabbling in the pagan and other minority communities will have to stop, and a united front presented against the superstitious nightmare of fundamentalist empowerment.


I Voted For Gore. I Feel Awful That So Many People Are... Nov 10th. at 9:20:07 am UTC

Kiwi Carlisle (St. Louis, Missouri US) Age: 47 - Email


I voted for Gore. I feel awful that so many people are
being virtually disenfranchised in Florida. I also feel
that we should wait for the absentee ballot count.

I also think that neither camp can claim a mandate,
which may bring us some moderation over the next two
years, until the mid-term elections.

If it's Shrub, I don't think he'll dare, with this
narrow vote margin, to try any of his more radical
plans, including messing with freedom of religion in
the military. Gore will just leave us alone.


My Vote, As Stated Prior To The Election, Went To Gore. I... Nov 10th. at 9:21:02 am UTC

Tony (Tampa, Florida US) Age: 28 - Email


My vote, as stated prior to the election, went to Gore. I chose him to make my best effort to keep Bush out of the Oval Office. I haven't had opportunity to see the televised coverage or press conferences from either of the camps, so I don't know how they are behaving themselves as the recounts, re-recounts, and counts of absentees are unfolding. However, I do not see an obligation for either party to concede.

The writing of history will determine whether either candidate becomes a "bad guy" -- and I think it will hinge upon whether the movement to eliminate the Electoral College brings an amendment to fruition.

The thing I'm curious to see is actually a bit more personal. I'm neither "in the broom closet" nor "out" at work -- it's not really anyone's business. However, the rabid Christian who sits in the next cubicle is a rabid supporter of Bush (she's rabid about just about everything she does, even vegetarianism) and she has been loudly denouncing Gore as a liar, etc. At one point, I got fed up when she stated, "I don't want that liar in the White House." I responded, "I don't want that bigot in the White House." She looked at me stunned and said, "What do you mean?" I told her how Bush has gone on the record repeatedly against religious minorities, particularly Wicca. She responded, "Oh, those devil-worshippers?" "No, Wiccans don't believe in Satan." I could see the wheels turning, but the computer was citing an input/output error, "Does not compute." She started stammering around trying to fathom how anyone could not believe in the Judeo-Christian god. I'm curious to see whether she makes an issue out of it.


I Did Vote, And I Voted For Gore. To Do Otherwise, In... Nov 10th. at 10:00:53 am UTC

Meredith (Maplewood, New Jersey US) Age: 25


I DID vote, and I voted for Gore. To do otherwise, in any case, would have been a vote for Bush and I am unwilling to allow him to become president if I have a voice in the matter. I had much more respect for both the Bush and Gore campaigns before all this hoopla in Florida. It has become petty, turning a race for the presidency into the equivalent of a war over the last cookie in the jar. Worse, it is liike a high school election.

Despite this, I feel that a concession by either would do more damage than good. Both worked hard to get where they are, and it would be a shame to see them quit now. The Bush people are claiming that the Palm Beach voters should not be allowed to revote because they "should have known". I sincerely think that this statement directly opposes the whole idea behind voting: letting your voice be heard and making your opinion count. If people voted for someone they didn't intend to, then their voice was NOT heard. To not allow them a re-vote would be to effectively silence the voice of the people.

Finally, in direct relation to my last statement, I feel that a win for Bush would be a sad, sad day in the history of America. His ideals are unamerican, in my opinion. In spite of his position that my religion is not a real religion, his views on abortion and on social security and medicare freighten me. What this will mean for Pagans, I really don't know specifically. But I can say that our legal system will make a dramatic shift to the right-wing conservativism, and I am in fear that the rights and prevledges I have enjoyed thus far will become strained at the very least.


Hi All. I Am Spanish And Live In Spain So I Hope... Nov 10th. at 10:07:13 am UTC

Mar Calpena (Igrayne) (Barcelona, Spain) Age: 27


Hi all. I am Spanish and live in Spain so I hope I don't offend anyone by posting this.
1) First, for the electoral system. For the European onlooker, the American voting system ("first-past-the-post", as my high school Politics teacher used to call it) isn't at all that foreign. Countries like France or the United Kingdom have been using similar devices for a long time. In theory, this should stop "fringe" parties from getting a seat in the Congress. Italy's electoral system is the complete opposite, as it assigns seats in a direct proportion towards the total votes. Other countries, such as Spain, lie somewhere in between. You do have to receive a minimum number of votes to get a seat (this is calculated with a rule called "Ont's law", but I don't really remember how it works), but there's a fairly wide array of parties at the parlament. As you already know, the first system tends to end up in bipartidism. And the we go on to...
2) The candidates. I also hoped Gore would win the election, but having said that, I felt he was the lesser of two evils. I am no die-hard lefty, but he's closer to right wing parties in Europe than Bush is, and not to socialdemocracy as it is understood over here. Take the death penalty thing, for example. Basically, it was a non issue to both Bush and Gore. And whereas he seems to be interested in protecting certain civil rights (freedom of belief), there are things about that would be cause of laughter in Europe, such as the parental advisory tags in records implemented by mrs Gore. Again, I don't mean to offend anyone, but from outside it looks like the American campaign was too focused on economics and too little on real social issues. Also, around here no one expected Nader to win, but not because his message wouldn't have found followers, but for the fact the electoral system makes it difficult.
Another thing that strikes me out as weird is that only 50% of Americans decided to vote. It might have something to do with the fact you have to register beforehand, but it may be interpreted as sheer disinterest or mistrust. It looks like many people only care about politics on election day. Which is a pity, as the United States are an example to many countries. Please make it a worthwhile one.
Thank you again, and as I said, don't take this as an offence, but just as some food for thought.


I Definatley Voted And I'm Glad I Did. After Hearing Some Unappealing... Nov 10th. at 10:27:21 am UTC

"ambermoone" (newark , Delaware US) Age: 21


i definatley voted and i'm glad i did. after hearing some unappealing coments mr bush had to say about witch's i started to seriously oppose him...later i realised texas is one of the most pollutes states in the country...further more as a feminist and a close friend to many gay couples i seriously could not bring myself to fathom this man in the white house..he seems to be against everything i am...i do not agree with all of gore's policy's but he is definetly more moderate. so i voted for the first time and it felt good to take a stand. the florida problem is confusing..it is hard for me not to feel biased when i say that a recount should be done...the presidency should go to the one the people want, but hten again that just may be my personal bisases which i feel are justified due to my views and feelings. i also think that the electoral college has long over stayed its need in this country.


I Voted For Al Gore Simply Because I Beleive That Al Gore... Nov 10th. at 10:28:14 am UTC

donna hitchcock (middleburg, Florida US) Age: 45 - Email


I voted for Al Gore simply because I beleive that Al Gore represents all the people, not just the educated and the wealthy.


Bright Blessings, In Response To The Question "who Did I Vote For... Nov 10th. at 10:37:27 am UTC

WolfHawk (Los Angeles, California US) Age: 21 - Email


Bright Blessings,
In response to the question "who did I vote for" I voted for Ralph Nader, he is truly concerned about the environment and wants to try to heal the earth. But, obviously he isn't in the picture so I am hoping Gore wins. I feel he is much more qualified for the job, and that in my mind is whats important.
thank you for your time,
WolfHawk


I Voted For Dubyuh. Although I Consider Myself Pretty Liberal In Social... Nov 10th. at 10:46:37 am UTC

anon (Orange County, California US) Age: 25


I voted for DUBYUH. ALthough i consider myself pretty liberal in social issues, i believe that less government is better and that he symbolizes that. What's going on in Florida is a joke. Ballots are thrown out all the time for voting for more than one candidate. You dont see the democrats screaming about the votes thrown out in california, new york, or texas? California must of had more votes thrown out than florida, its only 19, 000. And as for the ballots, they were approved by boht parties and seemed very self explanitory to me. We cannot have a re-vote because some people were confused. They should have asked for help or gotten a new ballot after marking two. Gore should act respectful and concede to Bush and vice versa if Gore somehow wins the absent ballots. As far as legal action goes, i am not a lawyer but seriously doubt that any judge is going to side with democrats and voters who were confused by ballots. As for uniting the country, i dont have an answer for that. As far as Pagans being affected George W. is not to strong on religious tolerance without a doubt, the man wants public prayer in schools. However the president does not make such decisions on his own. I think issues like roe vs. wade will be more affected than religious intergration with state affairs which is contstituionaly illegal.


I Voted For Nader. Because I Live In Texas, There Was No... Nov 10th. at 10:48:56 am UTC

Dimitri Kovarkova (Waco, Texas US) Age: 30 - Email


I voted for Nader. Because I live in Texas, there was no way anyone else but Bush would win in this state. On behalf of the great state of Texas, let me also apologize for Bush's childish attitude. He is acting like a spoiled brat who wants his presidency right now.

Gore should not concede the election. As it stands right now, he has won the popular vote and he is leading in the electoral votes. He is not losing. In light of voter irregularities, both canditates owe it to the people to make certain that everyone's vote was counted accurrately, fairly, and legally. Unfortunately, Bush is too eager to take power to be concerned about that. Does anyone else find it ironic that Bush, who ran his campaign on "Power to the People", is so quick to ignore the popular vote.

Of course, I wish they would just ignore the electoral college. It was created by racist, sexist, elitist white men over 200 years ago. It is an anachronism designed so that the common person wouldn't have any real say in who would be the leader of our country.

If Gore becomes the next president, then I don't think there will be much affect on Pagan communities. In general, Democrats talk about being good Christians, but they usually aren't so dogmatic about it. If Bush becomes president, then that would mean we would have Republicans controlling both houses of Congress and in the White House. Considering the Religious Right's influence on the Republican party, does anyone want to move to Canada with me?


Electoral Vote" Vs "your Vote Matters"... Yes I Voted, And I Voted... Nov 10th. at 10:55:19 am UTC

Micah J (Campton, New Hampshire US) Age: 37


"Electoral Vote" vs "Your Vote Matters"... Yes I voted, and I voted for Gore. That said I feel the issues that should be of real importance to us all are that it is the vote of a small group of anonymous people (the Electoral College) that decide who shall be our next president, not how you or I vote. Is anyone else as outraged as I that in todays world of instant polls and electronic voting we still have this 18th century anachronism? Regardless of how many times someones stands in front of a TV camera and tells us how this election reaffirms "How important one vote can be" it in fact affirms the opposite.
My one vote didnt matter for beans in this election. George W. Bush won my state and therefore the Electoral votes that went with it. The Popular Vote does not decide who the next President shall be. I feel the entire Electoral College system of voting should be abandoned, and the vote of the people alone should decide who the President of this country should be. But regardless of that, neither George nor Al are in any position to argue that they have won this election. The REAL election hasn't taken place yet. It will happen in late December when the Electoral College votes.
But as an additional twist to an already twisted election process, not all electoral voters are required to cast all of their states electoral votes for the candidate that "won" their state... They can vote for whomever they choose. So lets hope they choose to vote for whichever candidate actually has the most "Popular Votes"... then at least I won't feel my vote was wasted.


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