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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,200,443  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


To All My Fellow American Wiccans And Pagans, Tonight 13 Sep 01... Sep 14th. at 12:06:40 am UTC

Strarweaver / Shinma (Marquette, Michigan US) Age: 26 - Email


To all my fellow American wiccans and pagans, Tonight 13 sep 01, I watched CNN news and watched a statement roll across the bottom of the screen from Jerry Falwell. He blames pagans, wiccans, gays, lesbians, feminists, pro-choicers and others for the terrorist attacks on Tuesday. Now is the time when all of us need to come together and help one another when we're attacked, blamed and shamed on national television. Jerry moves to divide us. We must unite and show America that we are strong and supportful to the needs of our fellow Americans in their time of need, regardless to their personal beliefs. I ask you, to contact CNN fellow pagans and wiccans, and others affected by this statement to show our disgust with Jerry's igornant statement and remind him that this is a time of unity, not division, and/or blame. There are much more pressing issues we must attend to, like our wounded and missing. On another note, I thought the Burning Times happened 500 years ago, but it looks like We are still being blamed!


Put Your Thoughts To Work As I Just Did. Write Him At... Sep 14th. at 12:09:48 am UTC

Cinnamon (Atlanta, Georgia US) Age: 36 - Email


Put your thoughts to work as I just did. Write him at

jerry@falwell.com

and voice your outrage at his religious and social intolerance. With those comments, he seems no different from those who attacked us. We are different, therefore we are inferior, and need to be held responsible for all the madness in the world?

...is this the voice of all christians? I honestly don't think so... at least I hope not...

just a voice of another madman.

Blessed be sisters & brothers,
Cinnamon


First Off, Nothing I Am About To Say Here Excuses Or Justifies... Sep 14th. at 12:12:29 am UTC

Chasmodai (Las Vegas, Nevada US) Age: 41 - Email


First off, nothing I am about to say here excuses or justifies the actions of terrorists. No matter what we may have done or not done, we did not deserve this. They need to be stopped and they should be brought to justice.

I am concerned because I am seeing American leaders focused on "war" and "winning." Like this is some type of testosterone contest.

I agree that national defense is something that we all should tend to.

However, I think the real solution to the problem is to find a way to end hate and bigotry. To help the entire world to understand that as soon as we realize that the source of our troubles is the tendency for people to believe that one group of people is somehow set apart or better than another, our problems can be solved.

We need to understand that there are extremists and religious bigots everywhere and in all religions, here, in the Middle East, and everywhere. As long as they are allowed to make decisions that affect other people, there will be war.

I'll say it, and if anyone can show me that I am wrong please do because I am in anguish over this - I think our nation's leaders may have been setting policy according to bigotry against the people of Islam. We have been accused many times of giving preferential treatment to Israel. Have we done this?

When I see our leaders placing themselves in positions of heroics, "whipping terrorists, " good vs. evil, I wonder. Are we Americans victims of propoganda just as the German people were victims of propoganda during WW II? Have we committed atrocities against the people of Islam, and they just aren't showing it to us? Or have our actions been justified, which is what they have been saying.

Somehow we must end the division between people. Because everytime we "hunt down" a terrorist and bring him to justice, a new one will spring up to replace him.

Underneath it all, we are all brothers and sisters. Thousands of years ago, the people who worshipped the God of Abraham and the people who worshipped the God of Mohammed were brothers, we Pagans were their brothers too. Somehow over time we became divided, but still any war is really just brother against brother.


As This Nation Heads To End Another Terrorist's Life, The Emotions Of... Sep 14th. at 12:14:43 am UTC

Scott Ravers (Los Angeles, California US) Age: 31 - Email


As this nation heads to end another terrorist's life, the emotions of hate, anger and revenge are clouding the big picture.

When we as Americans decided to declare war on Timothy Mc. Veigh we thought by killing him would put "closure" on the terrorist subject. We thought this action would put fear into terrorist everywhere not to commit another act against the U.S. Government.

And yet only a few months later another terrorist act, with greater magnitude materializes.

And so we Americans go to war to end another terrorist's life and so the cycle continues, increasing in magnitude as it goes round and round.

After "closure" is put on this next terrorist, the cycle will repeat itself once again; this time possibly with a terrorist detonating a nuclear bomb somewhere in the USA. As 60 minutes and other investigative journalists have shown us, nuclear weapons, whether from fallen empires such as Russia or built or manufactured or sold by a foreign country are easily obtainable.

This I predict, if we let revenge, anger and hatred consume us, will be the next terrorist act. Put simply we are asking for it.

We must learn to control our emotions; as horrible as act as this was, hate and revenge will only make matters worse.

It's a shame we teach our children to learn to love and not hate; when we are the biggest hypocrites of all.


Chasmodai ----i Don't Know How Serious Anyone Takes Falwell Anymore. He's Pretty... Sep 14th. at 12:18:38 am UTC

ShadowWolf (Van Nuys, California US) Age: 38


Chasmodai ----

I don't know how serious anyone takes Falwell anymore. He's pretty much a pathetic self-parody at this point in time. Keep in mind, this is the mental giant that said a character from a child's TV show was gay. He's a sad, pathetic joke who doesn't realize his time has come and gone.

That being said, what I also find odious about his hateful comments is that he's using this large-scale tragedy to further his (and his organization's) far-right political agenda. It is truly sickening. At a time when others from all the political parties are banding together, he continues to seek to divide.

To others who read this (though, I don't imagine many regulars on this web site need to be told this), please don't let yourselves fall into a reaction of knee-jerk hate. The Koran does not, in fact, teach the things the extremists that perpetrated this act believe it teaches. As with any religion, there will be fanatics that twist words to their own sick ends (Falwell and Donald Wildmon come to mind, from the Christian side). I've seen postings in other places that say, in effect, "Let's nuke the Arabs!!" I've heard incidents of hate crimes being committed against Muslims and their places of worship in our country. Don't let yourself slide into that cycle of hatred as you react to this tragedy. Rise above. Don't lower yourself to the mentality of those who attacked us. Honor those who were victims of this attack, by rising above.

Blessed Be.


I Was Thinking About What Jerry Falwell Said. Basically, It Boils Down... Sep 14th. at 12:35:00 am UTC

Dolfijn (--, California US) Age: 32


I was thinking about what Jerry Falwell said. Basically, it boils down to the idea that the USA, his OWN COUNTRY, deserved to be attacked because there are gays, lesbians, and Pagans here. What a hateful man to say that. In short, he's blaming America for being attacked. He's blaming the victims.

My mom wonders why I sometimes seem angry at Christians. It's not all Christians, or even most Christians. I think mostly they're good people who are happy to live their own lives and to let us live our lives as we see fit. It's jerks like Falwell that anger me. I only wish other prominent Christians would stand up and say, "What Jerry Falwell said was wrong, and does not represent the views of the Christian community."

On the subject of fighting those who did this, I do believe we need to stop them. The death of McVey had nothing to do with this attack. Also, that's a different issue. McVey was a citizen, and his death was due to capital punishment. Bin Laden is an alien terrorist. It does not logically follow that if bin Laden is stopped, someone's going to nuke us. I want peace too, but the United States must NOT tollerate these actions.

It seems to me the US is doing what we should do: investigate, find out exactly who's responsible, gather allies, and go after only the people responsible. If a country harbors that enemy, then they become our enemy. I don't see us trying to wage war against the Arab nations. In fact, many of the Arab nations seem to be on our side. The US is going after the terrorists and those who harbor them, and no one else.

Well, this rant has covered a few topics on my mind. I think I'll modify the part about Falwell and send it on to CNN. I'd like to see them discount Falwell. That'd be nice.

Blessed Be.


Well Said Shadowwolf. Let Us All Just Hold Hope For Those Who... Sep 14th. at 12:37:41 am UTC

Lily McAllister (Chattanooga, Tennessee US) Age: 40


Well said ShadowWolf.

Let us all just hold hope for those who are in darkness and try not to blame.

Let us send good will to those directly affected by the violence. Send money. Donate blood. Do whatever you can to help them.


Well, I've Been Watching The News Reports, As Have Everyone Else, I'm... Sep 14th. at 12:49:09 am UTC

Randy Morobitto (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania US) Age: 34 - Email


Well, I've been watching the news reports, as have everyone else, I'm sure. By now, everyone should be aware that even more of the terrorists have been arrested at JFK and LaGuardia airports.

Just my thoughts on the whole damn situation --

I agree that the innocent should be left as unharmed as possible, though I also realize that innocents will be killed. As much as that bothers me, I accept that in the action that must be carried out. Those who committed the acts against the U.S. will not stop of their own accord. It is truly a shame that our species' history is DEFINED by war -- by violence and destruction of its own kind. That being said, the total destruction of these terrorists, these cowards, must occur; there is no way around that fact. We formerly settled for a symbolic action, or to move these groups away from their targets, but now there can be no room for symbolic acts, nor for mercy toward those who have attacked us.

I know how that sounds. I know how cold and inhuman it reads, as I reread every word, searching for some glimmer of light. At the moment, there is no light to be found. That light is presently covered in the debris that once housed thousands of innocent people -- mothers, fathers, friends and neighbors, and the day-care center where likely dozens of children were happily coloring or playing with dolls and blocks, and the debris where military offices were, though those there were not actually involved in military actions; secretaries and interns, and others who are military in name only.

They were sacrificed for no stated purpose. They were murdered for no legitimate reason, and that cannot be allowed to go unanswered.

May the Gods watch over and be with us in our darkest hours.
May They provide miracles of finding Innocents amid the ruins of concrete and steel. May They give comfort to the families and friends of those lost. May They assist us in ending the acts of terror that target those who have no reason to expect violence, and no way to fight back.


I Am Very Shocked On Seeing The Terrorist Attack On Television. I... Sep 14th. at 1:06:42 am UTC

yogi (Pretoria, Saudi Arabia) Age: 25 - Email


I am very shocked on seeing the terrorist attack on television. I hope the U.S goverment take drastic action agains those responsible, to stop something like that from ever happening again.

My thoughts and prayers are with all of America, especially to those who have lost a friend or family member in this tragic event.

Yogi
South-Africa


I'm Not A Pagan.or At Least, I've Never Thought Of Calling... Sep 14th. at 1:26:56 am UTC

Mike (New York, New York US) Age: 37 - Email


I'm not a Pagan.

Or at least, I've never thought of calling myself such... but tonight I found I may have more in common with Pagans than any other religion. Let me explain...

After work tonight, I took a walk in Central Park (New York), seeking quiet reflection, and perhaps, later, a glimpse of the stars. And I came across a number of people gathered. And my eye was caught by a beautiful harp. And I thought 'perhaps it will be played; I will stay' so I sat on a rock. And it was played. And then the people formed a circle, and started to chant, and did things I was slow to understand, and then I realised, 'they must be Pagans'.

And I stayed and watched from a respectful distance until the end of the ritual, and it was a thing of both great power and gentleness, and I wept. And I realised that they seemed after all to be doing something I understood, for I am a Highlander, born and bred in the remote North of Scotland. And there our people (or those gifted at least) have for years uncounted practiced the 'Healing' and the 'Second Sight'; we don't have a ritual or worship a Lord or Lady, we just Do It, and it seems very natural to us.

And it seemed these people were invoking the same Power, or one closely akin, which I found heartening. So I went and spoke with them, and they smiled and confirmed that I had indeed just witnessed my first Wiccan circle. And all I spoke with were kind and friendly, and patient with my questions, but I must mention especially Erika the Harpist. And I was shown the Altar, and I was moved to offer a Scottish rock, which I had carried with me, and this was accepted with thanks and smiles. I have no idea what good it may do, but it was done with deep feeling.

And I was so warmed by this encounter that on my return home I did some web research on Wicca, and this was practically the first place I found, and I was moved to write, and thank the warm, friendly and open Pagans of New York. I will now continue my research!

And now, in thanks for your companionship, I will sing for you one of my favourite songs:

Healer in your Heart (C.Macdonald / R.Macdonald)

There's a watcher waiting on the edge of the world with the
thoughts that never darken when the lights go down
In the rhythm of living and the shifting tribe through the cities of
destruction in these graceless times

For the universe and the stars are around you now
But the healer in your heart is only a breath away

In the smallness of one heartbeat power overthrow
In the oneness of the journey for a homing soul
With the spirits of the mighty here since day began
A shadow rushes through the grasslands to the dying sun

For the universe and the stars are around you now
But the healer in your heart is only a breath away
For there's silence and there's blindness in a raging world
But the healer in your heart is only a moment away

If the folks I met are a fair sample, you Pagan folks are amongst the best of us... I wish you all, everywhere, the power and strength to Heal.

Mike
http://www.corestore.org


Hello All,i Have Been Reading All The Posts For The Past... Sep 14th. at 1:43:43 am UTC

Shanna Melton (Bremerton, Washington US) Age: 32 - Email


Hello all,

I have been reading all the posts for the past few days and I wanted to express my gratitude to the Witches Voice for giving us a forum in which to air our feelings. Thanks Fritz and Wren and all the Voice staff. You are always there for us in the Pagan community and we all appreciate you.

Next, the tone of the posts has been a mixed one. Everyone has valid points, great poetry and wonderful rituals to contribute. I have this to say. When you work magic during this crisis, the Gods will see your true intentions. You MUST be sure to follow the Rede and HARM NONE. As for justice instead of revenge, healing and love light and peace. The rage is there and will be there. The pain is there and won't be healed for a long time. All our feelings about this tragedy are valid. But mark my words, the Gods will take you at your word and do what you ask and then you will reap what you have sown. Do not add to the tragedy by destroying all the good work we have been doing for so long.

We preach peace and then are the first to grab a sword, we ask for love and are the first to send out hate. Please everyone out there, try to moderate your approach. And if you cannot refrain from doing magic until your focus is more pure and your intent is clear then the Gods will give you back what you have asked for three fold. Do we really want that to befall our country?

We are workers of magic and have great power to affect the outcome of this. We have to act with responsibility and restraint.

That is all I have to say.

Blessed Be,
Shanna Melton
Highpriestess
Wolf and Creascent Moon Coven


I Work In A Night Club Over Here In Oxford England.. It... Sep 14th. at 2:34:06 am UTC

millie lavelle (oxford, England UK) Age: 20 - Email


i work in a night club over here in oxford england.. it kinda hit home exactly what had happened, rathere than it seeminly like some bizzar speilberg epic, when at 3am (my time) the five of us had finnished our shift and were watching bbc news 24. the sky line of NY has changed so much, but how will you be able to explain that it never used top look this way to our children? what do you say to them? that for no good reason (and we don't know the reason yet) these two buildings were destroyed... this may not sound like the things to be saying right now, not one word have i mentioned of the loss of life thus far.. but this is something so devistating to come to terms with it's easier to think in the abstract befor the personal... i feel like because of the loss of life here i should be making mmine worth something... that those poor souls had not the chance to fully complete their circle of life i should live mine to be so much more...

my heart goes out to those who have lost... no one can understand what it is for you to have this...


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