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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 24,664,801  

Vox Q Stats

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Reponses: 153

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Question of the Week: 95 - 1/19/2003

How Do You Feel About War?

‘Yes I'm talking about this war dance/ A patriotic romance./And I know all you poets/Have seen it all before…’ – Colin Moulding, XTC

Colin: ‘The words were originally prompted by the Falklands War in 1982. But it was too much on one piece of history. Then along came the Persian Gulf War and I put the revised lyrics to a new piece of music. It was time to bring war out of the closet again.’

And again, it would seem. How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?

Do your political leanings influence how you feel?

Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?

 Reponses:   There are 153 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

Why Can't We Just All Get Along? Jan 21st. at 5:57:15 pm EST

Leisaie (Michigan USA) Age: 14 - Email

I don't know about the rest of you, but my mummy taught me that we shoudl get along, that we should share, and above all she taught me that it's Not Nice to over-analyse people's weapons declarations. And really, everything we needed to know we learned in primary school--and from the Rede. I believe passionately in 'An it harm none, do as ye will'. What about the innocent civilians? What about the children and the storekeepers and the writers and the mothers? Will they all just DIE because of America's folly?
I'm a vegan, a born-two-decades-too-late hippy and a pacifist. I don't believe that there is any excuse for killing innocents, and it would take a lot to convince me otherwise.

No No Jan 21st. at 7:58:25 pm EST

Mallory (Rhode Island) Age: 17 - Email

I think that war is not necessary. As far as I know, we don't have any real evidence that Iraq has these weapons of mass destruction.

So, why allow both our body counts as well as Iraqs go down, for something that we have no real evidence of?

Just my two cents though. :)

Ummmmmmm...... Jan 21st. at 8:51:51 pm EST

Angie (Indiana) Age: 29 - Email

Ok. I think I've had enough. I love you all. I hold no ill will against anyone, but I am sick and tired of hearing all the America-hating. That's no more right than any of the other stuff. I hate to be harsh, but that really upsets me. I believe everyone is allowed their point of view and that diversity of opinion is a terrific thing. It makes (some of) us think. But I don't think that it is necessary at ALL to spout a bunch of "You Americans..." this and "You Americans..." that. I do not base all New Zealander's or Canadian's or anyone else based upon what their governments do or how some of their fellow countrymen feel. And I truly don't think it's fair to do that to America. That is just as wrong as the (very few that I know of) Americans who run around thinking ALL Iraqi's are like Sadaam. It's just plain wrong.
Sorry. I just felt very defensive for a moment there. I don't like to offend anyone, but I do think that we could all stand to be a bit more civil.
Blessings to all,

If Someone I Loved Was Killed... Jan 21st. at 9:15:33 pm EST

delia (San Francisco) Age: 26 - Email

I would not feel that I had the right to kill the person that took their life. Human beings, with our fearful, beautiful, petty, glorious emotions rarely have the wisdom to decide another person's fate. I trust the universal law of threefold return to teach each person the lessons ech soul is here to learn. Someone I loved drowned in the sea. Should I then hate the ocean?

The true test of faith, I believe, is to trust that universal law even and especially when those moments of rage and fear overtake us.

The current American administrators claim to be students of that teacher of peace, Jesus, but their actions are clearly informed by fear and power. The American way of life may not be beholden to misogynistic, violent religious beliefs as fundamentalist Islamic governments are, but it is held fast to an equally dangerous ideology: absolute capitalism; profits over all else.

The American constitution is based on democracy - a government of the people - and our current practice is far removed from that ideal. As a U.S. citizen and a descendant of the original inhabitants of this land (the Ojibwa), I will not leave but will stay and dissent and organize and teach peace until I have no breath left.

Anyone who believes that the people of power in this government choose war for the sake of their constituents or for the sake of innocent people in foreign nations is living in a sad and inexcusable state of naive ignorance. You have a responsibity to educate yourself about the role the United States in the deaths of millions of innocent people in this country and around the world, and as a citizen you have a responsibity to make in this country a government that is the voice of ALL of its citizens.

I am so tired of US against THEM. We are all one.

The Media Is Amazing. Jan 21st. at 9:23:36 pm EST

Watcher (USA) Age: 37 - Email

Many here seem to think that Sadam is responsible for 911 - in fact recent polls reveal that over 50% of those polled think the same... Amazingly THIS is not evem close to the truth but a great way to get folks angry...

most of the terroists came from Saudi Arabia.... and some from Egypt.

Sadam IS a REAL bad guy but NOT the 'master mind' behind 911. - We still haven't got those guys yet. But that 'war' has gone stale... WAR is good for the rich white men and they will find another.

These days *we* blame Sadam, the rest of the world seems to be fed more facts that we get... So if it's fox or cnn that YOU count on YOU are being dupped.

Let's go after Sadam for what HE Does... not what he didn't do, or may do someday.

the media is lock stepping with the bush agenda and has for two years now. they are doing a very good job at this spin.

what I am getting real tired of is the rhetoric... "I you don't buy the bush agenda or dare to question his 'logic' or 'intelligence' you are unpatriot or un american.." THAT is probably the most evil spin that we see these days.

the liberal media? Pahleezzz don't make us try to consume that BS line anymore.

Give Peace A Chance.... Jan 21st. at 9:31:06 pm EST

A'Nishna (San Diego) Age: 51 - Email

NO, do not go to war. The war is going to happen because of our leadership.

Views On War And Life Jan 21st. at 9:35:55 pm EST

moahdept (virginia) Age: 20 - Email

i believe that in life there is a balance between life and death. i have believed this my entire life. war is part of this balance. since the dawn of man we have always known conflict. we have always been knowledgeable about our own mortality. i do believe that war, in itself has become more unnatural over the years. the balance of war has shifted. wars used to be a matter of hand to hand combat and involved the loss of human life, and not so much of the life of the planet around the combatants. the weapons used today take both human life and the life of the planet. it has become dangerous to the balance of life. at this point of civilazation, in my opion, war should be avoided at all costs. the toll of war has become to high to pay. so long as humans exist in a society there will be confict. there is no way to avoid that, however, if we can learn to solve our disputes without the use of war then we and the earth would benefit.

At What Cost? Jan 22nd. at 5:54:21 am EST

Grey (England) Age: 20 - Email

As far as any war is concerned there is only really one consideration that I find important and certainly undervalued in the media and at large. I refer to the cost of war, not merely to the environment as has been noted already, but in terms of human life. Iraq is unstable and therefore not the type of place you would want to furnish with weapons of destruction. Nevertheless we seem to be moving toward war without the caution you would expect. Many people will die directly as a result of weapons and intent. Many will die accidentally. Many will die in the aftermath and many will suffer even greater hardship than is already endured. War should be the last response at all costs. It certainly should not be considered in lieu of or in conjunction with other peacefull methods of obtaining similar results. I may not be seeing all the relevant factors but I don't think I am alone in the belief that life is precious and taking life, no matter from how far away or how just a reason, should be seen as the worst possible outcome!

Ain't Gonna Study War No More Jan 22nd. at 8:26:44 am EST

Lathriel (Williamsville, NY) Age: 17 - Email

I attended the protest rally in washington DC this past weekend. It was my fist protest. It was wonderful and horrible.

Let me explain.

It was wonderful because so many people (over 250,000!) came from all over the country to protest something that they knew was wrong. All over the world, even, people were gathering and speaking out against shedding any more blood for the conquest of oil.
It was terrible because it was proof of the media's influence in our lives. The organization I drove with down to DC (A.N.S.W.E.R.) confirmed that at least 250,000 people had signed up just on the buses they had organized throughout the country. There were other people there who drove on their own, came on planes, trains, different buses, and locals. It was estimated that nearly 500,000, a half a million people attended the rally. The news said 30,000.
So if we're so wrong, wide should they hide the numbers?
War is not the answer to anything, especially when one nuclear giant is trying to steal nuclear weapons we sold to the other..... ahhh.... it's so wrong. Politics can go down the toilet for all I care, just gimme peace....

-Lathriel Link to More info related to this post -- HERE

A Duel? Jan 22nd. at 10:05:15 am EST

Steve (Mays Landing, NJ) Age: 43 - Email

Several Months ago, Sadam Hussein challenged Georgie W. to a duel. Wouldn't that be cool; The idea of the two War Mongers annihilating each other so the rest of us in both countries could go on with our lives.

This Isn't Going To Be Popular, But.. Jan 22nd. at 10:37:57 am EST

MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) Age: 39 - Email

I think we should take Saddam out. Now if this dictator and his sons want to go into exile all the better. No war, no bloodshed. I doubt this will happen as he seems to be spoiling for a good fight. More and more of our troops are being deployed everyday. This war IS coming and Saddam is the only one that can stop it.

Now don't get me wrong..I don't like war. I know innocent people are going to be killed. But we are going to be dealing with a madman who has already said he will 1) tie people to tanks so that we "lifeloving" (not my word) Americans won't shoot at them. 2) put women and children in the path of our military personnal so we won't shoot them. 3) human shields are coming from everywhere to protect this madman. I've heard more, but can't remember exactly. This is a madman who does not respect any life but his own. I worry about innocent people on both sides being killed. But, he has already killed his own people without remorse for years and years.

Now I know this sounds cold, but if we actually have to go in there I hope we do the job we should have done in the Gulf War. I hope we are strong. I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the ones having to blow up a tank w/people tied to it. But if this madman is going to use this against us we best steel ourselves and take it to the end. Our men and women in the military will need some serious support from us when they get back (NO SPITTING ON THEM). But it cannot stop us from what needs to be done.

If we are not strong in this and do WHATEVER needs to be done to end this madness we will be viewed as weak and open for another attack. Sometimes it does come down to "kill or be killed". Fact of life. Again, it would be nice if saddam & his lunatic sons went into exile. No muss, no fuss, they can be assasinated later. But I don't think their egos will let them. It would have been nice to finish this back when we had the chance, but it didn't happen, so 10 years later here we are again.

We have to remember that there is a very good possibility that our Administration may have more information than they let on. I think it's a very strong possibility that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction hidden from view. I certainly don't want to find out the hard way by some actually making it here or some other free country that thinks we're being greedy bullies. I didn't vote for President Bush. But I'd like to think if this was just about getting back at Saddam for trying to kill Bush's daddy, he wouldn't get this war at all. Again, maybe they have info we don't.

If our Administration did nothing in the name of Peace and Life for All and we got hit by several nukes because of that stance I'm sure quite a lot of people would be asking why we didn't act when we could. Hard to be peace-loving when you are glowing a bright shade of radioactive green. How many peace-loving people are ready to give their children & pets a lethal injections because it's better than dying of radiation poisoning??? Not me. Go over there and do whatever needs to be done. Whatever that is. We have to show strength. We have to be willing to do whatever needs to be done. Period. No exceptions. How many are willing to give their lives for peace for future generations?

We have the best military in the world. If we have to use it, then by Goddess, we must use it with all our might. We have to show we will not be bullied or black-mailed. We have to show that we will not hesitate to kill innocents if we are forced to. We have to show that we are not weak nor afraid. No exceptions.

Now, feel free to blast me for my opinion. I do wish this war can be avoided. I wish Saddam would take exile. I wish this wasn't even a topic for consideration. But it is and I think we should go over there and do whatever we need to to stop this madness. If we show we are not weak and squimish about taking lives when necessary, maybe some of these American-hating countries will think twice before trying to take us on again. I get absolutly livid when I think about the Twin Towers and the Pentagon & the other plane that crashed (True heros, those peace-loving people were..good example...they were willing to die for us because that's what was needed). How dare some group think they could do that to us???? We should come across as so mighty, no one would ever dare to try something like that again.

This coming from someone who takes spiders out of my house. I pray this war can be avoided but I also pray that if not, we have the strength to do whatever is necessary to end this maddness.

And remember, if this is just about Bush's family battle, he won't be re-elected and his political career will be over. It is a stong possibility that he is trying to do the right thing for all the free countries of this world. (gosh, did I actually just defend the man?? eew!! - he better live up to it!!)

Saddam & Sons, Take the Exile Option....Please!


War Is A Necessity At Times. Jan 22nd. at 12:33:02 pm EST

Bryan (Indiana) Age: 29 - Email

Unfortunately, war is a necessity in many cases. Was the American Revolution necessary? I believe so, yes. Whenever a government infringes on the inherent rights of the citizenry, then war is justified--what else has ever caused a government to relinquish power after it has been established over another people? However, I find myself dismayed at many of the postings I've read. World War II . . . the good war? Maybe viewed from certain vantage points, a case can be made for it. If I were a German Jew, homosexual, Gypsy, or essentially any non-Aryan, then absolutely. Or a Czech, or an Austrian. But as an American, and one who's read and understood history, I'm well aware that FDR crowded the Japanese into attacking us in order to force Germany to declare war on us. And thus it was done. Not that there weren't viable reasons to desire Hitler out of power, but that they were not the concern of the GOVERNMENT of the United States. The people, on the other hand . . . that's a moral question. Many of the postings have also stated that they feel that governments should be run as an essential theocracy, as long as their interpretation of divinity is the only one represented. If WWII was just and right for Americans to fight, then why not Iraq? Saddam has proven that he will violate borders of sovereign nations, just as Hitler did. He has proven that he will attempt genocide against the citizenry of his own country, just as Hitler did. If it is a moral question, then this war is equally just with 'the good one'.
However, while war is often a necessity, I do not believe that this war is justified for the United States. There is no proof that anything other than ill-intent resides in Iraq. And as we've seen, all those who wish the US ill are not viable targets for war, right Skeggi?
As a citizen of a smaller nation, you may well look to the UN for your domestic security. The question you must ask, however, is at root value, who provides the troops to the UN? Not to besmirch the other countries who have supplied forces, but anyone with any experience in the military is well acquainted with the fact that the majority of any Joint Operation is going to be American . . . as in Desert Storm. But I would like to close with the sentiment that while I do not agree with all of you . . . I support your right to be wrong. And even vocalize it.

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