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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,432,566  

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Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


It's Just All So Incredibly Sad Mar 25th. at 6:33:53 pm UTC

Barbara Hynes (Ventura, California) Age: 47 - Email


I guess I have changed my mind. I have had mixed, ambivalent feelings all along. I am a long-time peacenik/liberal person, having demonstrated on many occasions over the decades (Vietnam, nuclear power, Central America, etc.) . No one in their right mind wants a war. I have an 18-year-old son, and my heart just aches for the young people who are willingly serving our country overseas. I am praying daily for their safe return. No, I did not want to see the U.S. go to war with Iraq, but I have not protested. I guess I am getting old and jaded, but I have never seen any U.S. policy changes because I went out there and protested. The politicians are going to do what they want to do, protesters be damned. As I saw Bush building up the U.S. military presence in the Middle East, even without the backing of the United Nations, I knew war was inevitable. It's such a male, macho pride thing...this no backing out or backing down. Saddam Hussein and his regime must go, no doubt. The Iraqi people have been suffering under his terror for 24 years now. If you have heard the firsthand accounts of the things that have gone on, it's enough to make anyone horrified. There are no human rights at all in Iraq. However, I have reservations about the U.S. being the world's police force. Where does it end? Yes, I think part of Bush's rationale is "Operation Iraqi Freedom", but let's get real, it's also about the OIL, so we Americans can have cheap gasoline in order to drive our big frickin' SUVs to soccer practice. (Hey, I drive a union-built Saturn!) However, now that the so-called Coalition is there, I am supporting the troops whole-heartedly, and I hope we can get this war over soon. The U.S. government has had plans in place for a long time regarding occupation of Iraq, so our presence will be there a very long time. It will be interesting to see what eventually happens, and what kind of government is put into place (which will be a puppet to the U.S.) . What is really pissing me off today is the news that France wants to be a business presence in postwar Iraq, but those goddamn ***ing cowards didn't have the balls to go over there and fight. They are happy to let the Americans, British, and Australians shed blood so they can eventually have their business deals and make a bunch of money. Screw the French! So, I do think the peace protests should continue, but they should be peaceful and nonconfrontational. It reminds me so much of 30 years ago. (Hey, the fashions I wore back then in high school are back in style, too....wow, deja vu...) I think it is great to see so many young people awakening to their political awareness. Right on. In the meantime, I will continue to pray and ritual for a peaceful world. Blessed Be.


USA Examine Your History Please! Mar 25th. at 6:48:10 pm UTC

Todd (Ontario, Canada) Age: 27 - Email


Ok first off let me just say that I do not endorse Saddam Hussein and his Baath party in any way. However one thing that I have noticed in the psyche of the typical American is their penchant for assimilating any and all propaganda by their own government. The people of the USA were told that their was a connection between the Iraqi "intellegence" community and the 9 11 suicide bomber Mohamad Atta. This was found out to be misleading at best. The Iraqi intellegence official and Atta were both in Prague at the same time but that was it, they did not meet. The US government took the information that Atta and the Iraqi official were in the same city and stretched the truth of that info into a "meeting" taking place. Another interesting lie told to the American people was during the Gulf war part one where the US claimed that most or all Scud missiles launched at Israel were intercepted by patriot missiles. Ten years later the Pentagon admitted that they had "mislead" the American public on that score and that none of the Scuds were intercepted by Patriots. The report that Colin Powell submitted to the UN recently was found out to be the work of a graduate student and not the work of any accreditted intellegence agency on Earth.

What you folks in the US have to realise is that your government has no qualms about lying to you! They take a piece of information and twist it in such a fashion that it no longer resembles the original fact. You have a country based on the cornerstones of "checks and balances" and free speech yet your current government is doing everything it can to undermine basic civil liberties in the cause of "homeland security". Protestors are being labelled as "traitors" for excercising free speech! Traitors no less! But in the same breath these militant conservatives talk about forcing "democracy" in Iraq. I'd love to see their version of democracy, It would be laughable!

People in your country are always talking about how Saddam Hussien used chemical weapons on "his own citizens" well what you have to understand is that Iraq is a country of many potentially warring factions, his regime had been fighting this faction (the Kurds) for years. So, as despicable as this act was, they weren't really "Iraqi" citizens, they were different groups in conflict.

Further, talk about civilian targets and weapons of mass destruction! The USA was the first and only country to unlease the power of the Atom on humanity. Hiroshima and Nakasaki (sp?) were not military targets, they were cities! FULL OF PEOPLE WHO WERE VAPORIZED! These were clearly a "civilian targets" and the largest civilian loss of life by far in any military action in human history. This, in case you Americans don't know, was perpetrated by your own country in the name of "peace" and "freedom". Again, what a joke!! So please, after Hiroshima and Nakasaki (sp?) your country really can't talk about other regimes targetting "civilians" etc. In that one Nuclear attack which killed hundreds of thousands and more after the fallout more were killed than the entire "evil empire" of Saddam Hussien. I merely point this fact out to give you some perspective, something you sorely lack in your, "rah rah!" one sided media country.

Additionally, that Talking Monkey, George (Dubya) Bush Jr. wants to back out of the "non proliferation of nuclear weapons treaty", ya know that one that helped end the Cold War. He wants to back out so he can innovate some more "tactical battlefield nuclear weapons" that are banned in the current incarnation of the treaty. Saddam an aggressive power hunger dictator? Compare to your own leader, the first to back out of the treaty helping to keep us out of the flames of nuclear holocaust.

One thing I think you all know down South is that the idea of stopping terrorism by invading Iraq. If you think that is going to happen you are dreaming in technocolour! The ranks of terrorist organizations are going to swell in a manner never before seen. Pretty smart defensive strategy by your leader eh? When only one of those terrorists gets their hands on an illicit soviet nuclear weapon or some such ordinance and a speed boat one or more of your cities will be history. A speed boat to get into your country along the tens of thousands of miles of coastline that mark its border. Your only defense to this treat is making friends in the Arab world in order to get good INTELLENCE. But that is a word foreign to your leader, who indeed has the IQ of a legume.

Citizens of the United States harken unto me! You have a talking head for a president with the IQ of broccoli! He has plunged your country into its worst state of foreign relations potentially ever. He has the majority of the world hating your country or at least questioning their ties. The "colition of the willing" like Chile are token nations that were bought and controlled by the US long ago so it's not helpful to count them. You have a president and administration who have been itching to use their new "toy", the mighty US military, given virtually any oportunity. Why not attack North Korea who has a missile capable of hitting the US, has nuclear weapons in contravention of UN and US treaties, threatens to use them against the US and Japan and test fires missiles over Japan on a regular basis? He won't attack them because he knows he'd be in for a REAL fight with a technologically advanced enemy with the support of the great communist China. In short, the talking monkey Bush only enjoys picking on the weak and lying to the American people to support his ultra right wing, bordering on neo-facist, policies.

Wreak the environmentment! Wreak the current world peace! Wreak domestic civil liberties! Wreak the American dream of racial equality!

That should be the stated rallying cry of George (Dubya) Bush Jr. with the IQ of broccoli! It is certainly his tacit mission statement.

And, Oh Yeah, I am against the war in Iraq and American Jingoism and Ethnocentrism.


Maleciah Mar 25th. at 7:02:06 pm UTC

Night Wind (USA) Age: 2500 - Email


I believe that you don't understand my point.

I am not just saying it is hard, but that it probably impossible, for anyone, America, or any other nation. You cannot force democracy on people who don't want it. If the various Iraqi factions are talking with one another, which I doubt is anything but propaganda, by the way, then you can bet they are just trying to make the Yanks happy, and get them to support their side. None of the Iraqi factions either understands or has the slightest sympathy for Western-style democracy. For that matter, neither does anyone in the Middle East, except maybe the Israelis and the Turks, and I have severe doubts about both of them.

When the United States occupied Germany after the Second World War, it was trying to rebuild a country that had been Western since the Middle Ages, had been a stable constitutional monarchy between 1871 and 1914, had been a ramshackle but democratic republic from 1919 to 1933, and had only been under the rule of totalitarian regime from 1933 to 1945. The civic institutions on which democracy can be built were still present in Germany, although in a badly damaged form. The Allied powers had to overcome the legacy of Hitler, but they had something to work with.

And, this process took hundreds of millions of 1945 dollars in aid, five years of complete military occupation, seven years of terrorism by Nazi "werewolf" guerrillas, another forty of disguised military occupation, and the economic, military, and political integration of Western Europe to achieve. That it did work, very well, with the result that modern germany is a nation that can be proud of its democratic and humane institutions, was owed as much to the German people and their institutions as to the Allies themselves.

In the case of Iraq, there are centuries of tradition of tyranny, a religion that encourages hatred of the West, essentially none of the civic institutions needed to build democracy, and a population of factions, each trying to dominate the others. It is my view, and the view of most real Middle East experts, that little or nothing can be made of such a country, no matter how well intentioned the new rulers may be.

And, this assumes that the proper resources are devoted to the task. The Bush government has shown absolutely no inclination to do this, nor would the American people stand for it. In order to make Iraq into a Western-style democracy, and to avoid being fatally weakened in the process, here is some of what is needed:

1. AT LEAST one hundred billion dollars in aid, all of it to be under the absolute control of the American authorities, so as to prevent it from being stolen by Iraqi officials. Probably, more aid will be needed over the decades.

2. AT LEAST ten to twenty years of occupation, with a fair and impartial law-code enforced with a ferocity that most Western peoples, and particularly a humane people like the Americans, would find utterly repulsive. In order to truly rule Iraq well enough to change its institutions, the occupiers will have to do things like take civilian hostages, as guarantees of good behavior. Are you willing to do this? Over and over? For twenty years?

3. A military draft, to build Army and Marine divisions tied down occupying Iraq. An increase of military spending to AT LEAST 5% of GNP, in order to pay for those new divisions, and the shipping and other transport needed to get them where they need to go. That is double the current defense budget. Where will this money come from?

4. A degree of social and psychological knowledge currently beyond the capability of any government or nation. You will need to somehow persuade the Iraqi people to give up their various communal identities -- as Sunnis, Shiahs or Kurds -- and to care about building democratic institutions that their own traditions regard as snares of Satan. How will you do this? How will you pay for it?

5. Tha national will to endure the hatred of the whole rest of the world for decades at a time. Are the American people really willing to endure decades of being hated, of their culture being rejected, of boycott and trade sanctions, of being unable to travel abroad, of being, in short, a threat and world pariah comaprable to the Soviet Union at the deepest depth of the Cold War? Is the United States going to able to keep other countries from delivering supplies to Iraqi guerrillas? How much money are you willing to spend to do this? How many hospitals, schools and libraries for Americans are you willing to give up? How many student loans?

And, even if America starts preparing to do this tomorrow, it could still all come crashing down if Kim Jong Il invades the South, or if one of America's allies in the War on Terror collapses. As things stand, if Pakistan votes to go Taliban, and it might, or if Indonesia falls apart, or if any number of other things go wrong, there won't be anything the United States can do about it. And, once that happens the first time, the secret will be out, and America's enemies will swarm her like wolves on a moose in the northern forests. A moose can crush any single wolf. But, a large enough pack can bring down even the largest moose.

The wolves are gathering in the darkness. And the American moose has turned to them its flank.


Thank You Todd.. Mar 25th. at 7:14:01 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


That was the biggest line of BS I have seen flow out of someones mouth in a long time!
Why do you feel so compelled before you even state your opinion that you don't support Saddam or the Ba'ath party? Your opinion should state where you stand. What you need to understand todd is that EVERY government lies. If you believe that yours doesn't either. I have a bridge to sell you.
Protesters are not considered traitors in ALL instances (nice blanket statement b.t.w.) However, protesters who are irresponsible and intentionally get indignant towards police officers by asking them why they have to get off the street to protest and they respond that it is your right as an american or a free citizen. I beg to differ, but the only right that gives you is to be hit by a mack truck. Some of these protesters are just outright careless. and that underlies their true message. Another thing:

"People in your country are always talking about how Saddam Hussien used chemical weapons on "his own citizens" well what you have to understand is that Iraq is a country of many potentially warring factions, his regime had been fighting this faction (the Kurds) for years. So, as despicable as this act was, they weren't really "Iraqi" citizens, they were different groups in conflict."

You dare try to use this as a defence for him using chemical weapons? that invalidated your whole point right there. That is like saying that gays and pagans aren't really a part of the US. they are just a faction that disagrees with the government so that means it is OK to round them up and use chemical weapons on us. and you insinuate Dubya as Hitler? He maybe a dry drunk texan that has no tact for foreign matters (there is a reason why texas' ads say it's like a whole other country) But that is an internal matter for us here in America to deal with. No one here admits he was elected. cause he wasn't and that is an internal matter that we as americans are fighting on a separate front. and as far as using nuclear weapons. there was little option left when you are fighting Japan and Germany (BOTH significant forces) and it showed the world what it could do and it hasn't been done by ANYONE since. YOU get your facts straight and fix your own government before you dare to critisize ours.


Nightwind.. Mar 25th. at 7:27:19 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Thanks for clarifying but I have already posted what I am doing with ex-iraqis and the UN and the US to work out the democratic part of it. I am not saying it will be easy and am aware of what it entails for the troops but we do have contingency plans and economic outlooks for these people and offered up alot of ways to suppliment their main export to rebuild Iraq. These things and we really do want them to have the ability to at least say what they want from their country. It is if they insist on putting in another saddam we will not allow it. agreed germany was a western country and that the islamic world is quite a different world. But they know what death is over there all too well and all sides are tired of it but don't know how to get it to stop and get on the right track. getting rid of Saddam is just the first step. I think it is something that is worth a chance. and those who are saved from saddam will remember it. I can't really give much as far as details at this point but the thanks for the help I have gotten from Iraqi citizens and their familes already propel me in this cause. not oil. not president bush.. no one but to one day see peace in the middle east. and that will not arrive till the "silent" holy war going on between christians and muslims is done and we can live in that eutopian society we all dream of.


Saddam Is An Ass Mar 25th. at 7:34:30 pm UTC

lilly (England) Age: 27 - Email


I don't pretend to know alot about world politics, and was completley against this war at first. It's horrible to think of the sufering of the people of Iraq, and I have friends in the army who are fighting over there as I wright this, and I'm worried sick about them. I'm not pro war, But surly the world would be a better place with out people like saddam in it. I'm not mad keen on old Bush, but I think calling him Hitler is a bit much!


Note To Protesters (particularly To Those In Portland, OR) Mar 25th. at 7:38:09 pm UTC

Amber Heathen (Cornelius Oregon) Age: 22 - Email


We get the point already, you don't like the war. Hell, neither do I, but at least *I* have a job (which I was half an hour late to this morning, thanks to the idiot protesters downtown!) Protest in the park, stay the heck off the streets, do not block traffic, do not block public transportation. It's called a life--GET ONE. Just because some of you don't have anything more constructive to do doesn't mean others don't. Getting in the way of people who have a living to earn, bills/taxes to pay, and things to do doesn't do anything for your "message". It just pisses people off. Oh, and those mean old police officers that put the "beat down" on the poor little "peaceful" protesters are being paid by your tax dollars. Betcha they're making a hella lot of overtime pay because of YOU. Doesn't that put a smile on your face?

I've posted a message similar to this on a local forum I go to, but I decided to post it here in hopes that some of the witchy types who were at the a.m protest would see this. (I know there were some there, I saw some witchy type signs being held by people who marched past my stranded bus) . YOU made me late for work. Thanks a lot jerk, hope it was worth it. Seriously, do ya'll think Vera Katz (Portlands mayor, for those who don't know) is going to make a quick phone-call to Dubya and tell him to end the war, and that will be that? Give it a frickin' rest. Go home and watch tv, or *gasp* go job-hunting or something. Good Gods...


Oh And As Far As Who Will Pay For It? Mar 25th. at 7:42:32 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


This has already been disseminated to the press so I can say it. There is a reason that Saddams bank accounts are being frozen and seized. By all rights that is the Iraqi peoples money, it is about time that they benefitted from it. wouldn't you agree? :-)


Malechiah, Another American Jingoist Mar 25th. at 8:12:04 pm UTC

Todd (Ontario, Canada) Age: 27 - Email


Well, Malechiah. My point was to give perspective on the issue to you Americans. It is no small coincidence that the vast majority of people who support the war are Americans. If the war was easily justifiable than people of other countries would weigh objective evidence from their own media sources, etc and support it. They do not. Even in Britian, your "ally" the anti war sentiment is at 76 percent AND the government their does NOT support regime change, only disarmament. Only in the US do 75 percent or so of the population support the war. Is there a reason for that? Yes there is, Americans believe the rhetoric of their government for the most part and adopt the view of the goverment quickly and without considering dissenting views. Not so in Britian. In the UK the government went to war but the people QUESTION IT! They listen to disenting views, weigh them objectively and form opinions. Therefore you have 76 percent against the war in the UK.

The other aspect of perspective I was trying to give was that of WMD and scale. The UNITED STATES is responsible for the largest loss of human life with a WMD in the history of humanity. Speak to this Malechiah, please. Try to defend that. Those Nuclear weapons were used on civilians urban centres and killed hundreds of thousands, and irradiated many, many more. Those women, children, etc. died by vaporization and horrible lingering deaths from radiation poisoning that tooks weeks, even months after the fact. Yes it was in response to the attack on Pearl Harbour, but Pearl Harbour was a decidedly MILITARY target. Put your own countries acts in perspective. If there was a UN during that period the USA would have been chastised harshly for that despicable act using WMD. If there was a CNN, try as they might it would be difficult even for them to spin that one around.

You know what, I am fairly certain that no American poster will agree with me when I talk about perspective and the USA's part in the history of world agression and WMD use. I know this because Americans, for the most part, (Michael Moore aside heh) are jingoistic and incapable of looking at their own countries policies objectively in a historical perspective. American is always 'America the Good' and America can simply do no wrong. It is no surprise to me that America fought Iraq. America will fight anyone, because they love to fight. Their country was founded in war and bloodshed and that is their preferred method of dealing with most problems. The USA loves to make up their own rules as they go along. Saying Iraq is a threat but the situation in North Korea, the one that actually involves nuclear weapons, is somehow different. North Korea is not the immanent threat, Iraq is! Surrounded and helpless Iraq more threatening than the technologically advanced nuclear nation of North Korea? A country with a history of agression against the US and backed by the communist state of China and others? GIMME A FREAKIN' BREAK!

I simply think, and it's not only one persons opinion mind you it's most of the world's too, that you Americans need to get some perspective and question your administration just like we Canadians and the British do. The war isn't popular in these countries because we question the evidence and the info given by your government. Here in Canada we watch the same media sources like CNN etc.

Another question I have is this: Here in Canada we have a modern industrialized nation with more people having access to the internet per capita than even the US. Our post secondary education rate is higher than the US. In short we have a good standard of living. Countries like Iceland, Sweden, Norway, etc are similar. The question is this then "If we and these countries can do it and have no enemies and no fear of terrorism on Earth why does the USA have such a hard time doing the same??"

Canada, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc. just to name a few can have the highest standards of living on Earth and yet we have no enemies and no recorded acts of international terrorism on our respectives soils.

Don't say it's because the US protects us. They don't protect even themselves against terrorism.

So why do we not have the same problem as the US?

If you look objectively and try to get a little perspective on the matter it will become clear.

Just stay out of other peoples business! Stop trying to exploit other countries natural resources in the name of "American self interest" that's someone elses stuff not yours right??
Get your military out of areas that resent it, etc, etc. I'll bet if you started to do that kind of thing and follow the examples of the other abovementioned countries you would notice a difference.

Come on intellegent Americans respond! I know some of you are out there! (Micheal Moore hehe)


Walk In Some One Else's Shoes For A Change Mar 25th. at 8:30:28 pm UTC

Etain (Ohio) Age: 31 - Email


Even though I was just being born during the Vietnam conflict I wonder if people back then felt the way they do now......very passionate and divided. I will acknowledge that the people here are passionate about their views but I will try to stick to the regs & rules of Vox postings.

When the Gulf War was going on I was around 19 and didn't take stock in the world around me.....typical teenager. Now that I have a little one, I'm definately paying attention. There are no easy answers to this conflict. I don't think anyone knows all the facts...... except maybe the key players at the top. I have read quite a few books, watched SOME TV, and have tried to be objective...although that's almost impossible. This is what I have come to realize:

I am and always will be against this conflict with Iraq.

(This war is about money and power not freedom or liberation) .

Politicians and the media lie on a regular basis... I thought we all knew this.

I love my country but I am scared of this administration.
(If it smells like sh#t....it probably is sh#t.)

I want more than anything for no more troops to die.

I honor and respect someone that is willing to die for their country.... but not under these circumstances. Our Americans are dieing in vain.

I also don't want Iraqi's to die.
(I'm assuming a lot of Iraq's are like us......they just want to be happy and live a good life) .

I can see why other countries have contempt for us (and it's not because of jealousy or envy) .

I know that while everyone is focused on the Iraq conflict our govt is doing some shady sh#t.
(Patriot Act I & II, Homeland Security, privacy infringment....etc)

I know that America's foreign policy in the past has been been down right empiralistic and barbaric.

I truly believe that the media is completely f#*&ed and has no business giving a "play by play " of this conflict. Eg: "Troops are 50 miles from Bagdad at xyz location......2 days later...Troops took a wrong turn and ended up being captured and/or killed" Wow, really, go figure!!!

I have lost faith in democracy as our founding fathers knew it.

I will look forward to changes in gov't in the future.

I thought we were all evolving to a higher consciousness and away from killing each other.....humans are supposedly the most intelligent of the animal kingdom. Yeah right.

Everyone here can argue all they want but no one here knows what our gov't is up to......look at our gov't's past history....we don't have a good track record.

I want a peaceful, secure world so that my child can grow and thrive....I'm sure Middle Eastern people want the same.

Even though we may all have different skin colors and pray to different gods we all still bleed red.

Finally.........nothing is as it appears to be. I hope everyone remembers that when they are watching their CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS....etc, etc

This WAR has been brought to you by (insert commercial)


Way To Go Etaine! Mar 25th. at 8:46:11 pm UTC

Todd (Ontario, Canada) Age: 27 - Email


Etaine your sentiment is exactly the kind of objective policy examination your country needs.
You are totally right, everyone in this will die in vain. Democracy ala firepower won't take hold, never has. And Iraq will become fractured, (Sunnis, sh*tes, Kurds, Marsh Arabs, etc. etc.) .

There will be no "democracy" in Iraq in this way. I remember it being said over and over by the US administration during Gulf War Part One (Brought to you by...insert commercial) when Bush Senior talked about restoring "democracy" to Kuwait. Democracy! In Kuwait!! I work with a guy from Kuwait who used to live there, he chose to come to Canada for a better life. No war etc. He says democracy is an impossibility there. And indeed it doesn't exist. Kuwait is a Monarchy. One man and a royal, noble lineage make all the decisions and live in opulance while the rest of the country has little or no say in anything.

Ever since I heard the US talk of restoring "democracy" to Kuwait I have stopped believing in virtually anything that right wing American politicians say.


There Seems Little Point... Mar 25th. at 8:55:50 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


In going on about this much longer, from my perspective. The issuses are constantly being clouded over so I will simply state my case and leave alone at that. I never expected to change the opinions of the gung ho.
My opinion is that
1) This is an illegal war as it is an invasion of a sovreign nation without UN backing and without that nation taking any recent aggressive action aggainst, or treathening to take action against, the US or UK.

2) You cant free people by killing them. People in an army fight like yours because they are told to. Civilians have been killed and more will be killed. Uprisings will be put down by force in a cercumstance like this as would most if not all nations do.

3) Its not a fair fight. Whats that got to do with it? It forces the use of Gurellia tactics much like in Veitnam. Soliders will decive, hide in civilian areas etc because it is the only way to have any hope of victory. If your Armed forces couldnt see that coming months ago then they deserve court martials.

4) The US and the Uk have lied before so why should we trust them now?

5) The risks to the country, people and region bought on by the instability this war has and will cause, is too much of a risk. There are better ways that the US and UK did not explore, why not?
What happens with the ethnic cleasning we will now see, hope not, or when the neighbouring countries use this situation to their advantage. What will Turkey will an oil rich kurdish nation on its southern boarder? What will that other butcher in the middle east Israil do?

Stated my case not in the full depth but at least at a glance.
Bless the people of Iraq.
Skeggi


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