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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 8,544,578  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 263

Lurker/Post Ratio: 124 to 1

Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000

The Unresolved US Election

Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?

 Reponses:   There are 263 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Hail From Florida, And Yes, I Voted. I Voted My Conscience... Nov 10th. at 10:59:28 am EST

Barbara J. Walker Graham (Gainesville, Florida US) Age: 45 - Email


I hail from Florida, and yes, I voted. I voted my conscience. I voted my heart. I voted for Nader. This does not mean that I wish Bush to be president. Had V.P. Gore been able to win over the growing green movement, then he would have been able to claim this victory. The 3% of the popular vote which Nader earned cannot be seriously considered the cause of the present situation. The growth of alternative political parties has been stunted in this country by the monied interests and status quo. Yes, we are lucky to have the Constitution on which to rely on. But viable living organisms evolve over time, just look at the Amendments and the Bill of Rights to recognize that the Constitution does not answer all the questions -- and this was recognized by those pioneers who drafted those all important changes. A document 300 years old ought not to stagnate growing opinions. Our society is mature, and needs to re-think the existing political system and evolve a response to the changes that the 21st century brings. I Pledge Allegience to the Earth, One Planet, Many Gods, and to the Universe in Which She Spins. Blessed Be.

Barbara
Gainesville, FL


I Walked In, Collected My Ballot, And Prepared To Strike A Blow... Nov 10th. at 11:03:37 am EST

Strong_Fox (Spring Grove, Illinois US) Age: 29 - Email


I walked in, collected my ballot, and prepared to strike a blow against the forces of tyranny. I tried to steel myself saying that I was being logical by voting against the lesser of two evils, but in the end, I just couldn't vote for bush, so I voted my heart and chose Harry Browne. Since there were no other libertarians running, I was forced to vote for republicans like Mr. Henry Hyde.

As to all the fighting in Flordia, screw ups happen everywhere. The so called "confusing ballot" is of the same sort I used in cook county, Illinois, and was approved by the election commisoner who was a democrat. If you cannot be bothered pay attention and vote for the wrong candidate, that is your fault. If you double punch and vote for two presidents, your fault, toss it out. Those are the rules. allowing someone to revote with knowledge that I did not have access to when I voted violates my rights. So no new voting.

On roadblocks, I find them abhorrant and un constitutional, but a roadblock a mile form a polling place that stops and tickets people of every ethnic background as the florida one did, does not racisim make.

On republicans vs democrats, as a libertarian, I find great fault with both parties. That said, I will pick a republican over a democrat because I know that anything they do with regards to social issues in society will be watched and reported on by a media that favors the other side. so I know that bush cannot sneak in a national jesus day or bash a gay day.

That said, the democrats scare me because they have no watchdogs like the media to hound them. Mayor Daley of chicago rails about gun violence and wants guns banned from the public, yet his chicago police routinely innocent people, and there is no outrage. The democrats complain about unlicenced gun dealers selling weapons, no such an animal, when they say that they are saying that if I decide to sell a gun to a friend, that makes me an unlicenced dealer, same logic would say that when I sold my car to my sister, that makes me an unlicenced car dealer. B.S. And since Clinton/gore/reno, I see federal swat teams braking down doors, shooting and burning innocent women and children. yet those who claim to support peoples rights and call themselves liberal say nothing. at least under bush there are voices that will cry foul if he tries the same.


Yes, I Voted, And For Gore (that Discussion Reserved For Another Time... Nov 10th. at 11:09:23 am EST

Graywolf Dreamer (Grapevine, Texas US) Age: 33 - Email


Yes, I voted, and for Gore (that discussion reserved for another time and place). Unfortunately, I feel that the fighting-it-out is the only option if our goal is to improve the process. Under no circumstances should we allow anyone's particular wish (for the method of resolution of the FL issue) to replace the ruling of the courts. That's what they're there for -- even if one of the candidates would prefer to concede.

I feel either candidate will have a difficult term given the non-mandate of the election and the nearly evenly split Congress. Hopefully, this will mean at least one term of minimal impact to Pagan communities. I doubt religious bigotry in the guise of civil legislation will be a priority in a close-vote atmosphere, and however many justices are appointed by this new President will have to be much more moderate than he might wish.

Either way this turns out, it promises to be an interesting four years.


Shrugs* I Voted For Gore Because A Vote For Nader Was A... Nov 10th. at 11:25:21 am EST

Wolfie (Middle O' Nowhere, Missouri US) Age: 22 - Email


*shrugs* I voted for Gore because a vote for nader was a vote for Bush. I would have preferred a Green Party protest vote; however, with the elections so close I feel that it was a disaster that anyone voted for Nader--had those folks voted for Gore, Mr. "I wanna put oil rigs in Alaska's wildlife refuge" Bush wouldn't have had a chance. Yes, it was voting for the lesser of two evils, but frankly I'm willing to give up on my ideals a bit to protect against a greater danger than voting Democratic.


I Voted For Al Gore. Bush's Stance On Many Issues Is A... Nov 10th. at 11:40:54 am EST

Lori Hammock (Taylor, Michigan US) Age: 35


I voted for Al Gore. Bush's stance on many issues is a little frightening, but no where near as frightening as someone who would contest an election that is as fair as humanly possible given the way the ballot was designed and counted. A lot of other precincts use that type of ballot as well.

If this is pursued in the courts after all the votes are finally counted, disaster will fall. The conservative movement will gain momentum, their notions that our current administration is corrupt beyond redemption will be justified. Because we can't change the laws in the middle of the election. That's not how America is suppose to work. And remember if the conservative momentum gains, that won't be good for us pagans. Something to think about. We don't like conservatives shoving their ideology down our throats. To challenge their victory when there is no evidence of criminal conduct will just strengthen their arguements that those of us who aren't so conservative can't be trusted.


This Was The First Time I Was Able To Vote So Of... Nov 10th. at 11:52:17 am EST

L. M. C. F. (New York, New York US) Age: 19


This was the first time I was able to vote so of course I voted. And I voted a straight Democratic ticket: Gore/Lieberman and Hillary Clinton for the Senate. I also saw many people being turned away from my polling place... and the entire situation in Florida is *incredibly* shady.
There have been posts on here from non-Americans asking why not everyone votes. I offer you several reasons:
1. their vote won't make a difference (unless they live in Florida!)
2. the registration system is flawed- there was a HUGE problem at my university about allowing students to vote here in NY.
3. the candidates aren't talking to younger voters (the group that votes the least)
4. the electoral system does not necessarily have to vote what the people in their state vote. Sad but true.
5. voting is not made easy for people. I happened to have the day off, but that is only due to a university policy.

That said... anyone who voted for Nader screwed this election big time. While I agreed with the guy, it was apparent that the race was very close and that he could really mess it up (New Hampshire is a great example)


As To The First Question, Yes I Did Vote. I Voted For... Nov 10th. at 12:05:35 pm EST

Michelle Brown (Missoula, Montana US) Age: 33


As to the first question, yes I did vote. I voted for Al Gore. I'm intrigued by the "political wrangling" in Florida. We are getting to watch a little history making in process. It's a wonderful opportunity and one day we'll be able to say "I remember when..." That aside, no, I don't think that one or the other candidate should concede for the "good of the country". How would that be for the good of the country? Just because folks may be too impatient to see the process through does not mean we should rush to stick someone in office just to get it done. A close race is always a possibility and we need to ride it out. If it goes to the House of Representatives - so be it. That's how the system works. If we would like to change it in the future that's wonderful. At this point however it is the existing framework and we should work within it.

It will be difficult for either candidate to pull the country together at this point. However, we have survived political divisions before and we will again. This is not the end of the world. Things will just be a bit ruffled for a while. Whoever becomes president will have to exercise great tact, intelligence and common sense. They will also have to be willing to compromise. Hopefully our internal conflicts will not draw so much attention as to jeopardize international policy.

With regards to the impacts on the Pagan community, I feel we could see some changes should Bush become the next president. We would be living in a more conservative atmosphere than that of the past 8 years. That's no surprise.
As I see it things could go two ways. Those politically and religiously conservative groups who have a negative view of Pagans could feel that their battle is over. Bush is in and they can stop their political fight and rest on the laurels for a while. On the other hand, perhaps they would see Bush's election as a sign to push harder to exclude Pagans from the mainstream. Some groups seem committed to removing Pagans from the positive public eye no matter what. Only time will tell. As always, we need to keep our eyes and ears open and be willing to stand up for our constitutional rights as well as basic human rights. Over the past few years we have received a considerable amount of positve press. In addition the ACLU has been very supportive of the Pagan community. They are not the only ones. We've established a positive base. Let's keep building upon it.

Bright Blessings
Michelle


I Voted For Ralph Nader Of The Green Party, Too Bad We... Nov 10th. at 12:06:10 pm EST

Chris (Kenosha, Wisconsin US) Age: 31


I voted for Ralph Nader of the Green Party, too bad we didn't get our 5%.

Florida just goes to show what a joke our system is for electing our President, maybe now it will get a review (should only cost us an addtional $100 million or so after all is said and done). It should turn out to be a long and painfull experience.

With the differences between the parties dwindeling every year, there will be no huge changes, just slight changes in focus and shifting of funds.

Although Bush actully spoke out against us, I get the feeling that his promise will be one of those that will get broken (at least I hope so). It sounded more like a rally cry to get undecided Christian voters on his side. For a US President to actually attack a recognized religion would be political suicide and cause an international media blitz.


I Voted For Al Gore. The Candidates' Stances Re: Religious Liberty Was... Nov 10th. at 12:10:09 pm EST

Turok (Philadelphia area, Pennsylvania US) Age: 54 - Email


I voted for Al Gore. The candidates' stances re: religious liberty was a key deciding factor in my choice.

The political wrangling in Florida is a battle that will yield a Phyrric victory to whoever prevails. So I feel that Al Gore should concede and give that victory to Dubya.

I feel the results will have minimal impact on the Pagan community and our interests, given the closeness. Both sides of the aisle have a stalemate to deal with for the next two years, so they are not going to alienate the electorate nor polarize it too much.


Yes, Of Course I Voted. As A Proud Pagan, I Would Be... Nov 10th. at 12:14:02 pm EST

Susan Hyatt (Boise, Idaho US) Age: 43 - Email


Yes, of course I voted. As a proud pagan, I would be greatly ignoring my responsibility to myself and to my fellow human beings if I did not. I cast my vote for Gore because I knew that either he or Bush would be named the leader of the most powerful country in the world, and I wanted to help ensure that my rights were preserved. Gore is not the perfect choice, but he is definately the most enviornmentally concious, and supports a woman's right to choose. Bush is neither of those things. I realize the need for a third party, but I am very pragmatic, and I believe that this change can best be realized by taking logical steps. Bush as president is not a logical step. As an Idahoan, I would like to see the electoral collage abolished and the popular vote the deciding factor. And one more thing. I have talked to so many pagans who did not vote claiming fear of being bombarded my negativity, believing they were all liars, not knowing who was running or not caring. This is appalling. We of all people need to be aware of what is happening in this country, and need to have a voice in government. We are always talking about our rights and being a persecuted people. Then please, help preserne our rights! Apathy will be our undoing.


Well, I Personally Voted Gore! I Could Not In Good Conscience Vote... Nov 10th. at 12:42:12 pm EST

Zandra Nightmoon (Tacoma, Washington US) Age: 26 - Email


Well, I personally voted Gore! I could not in good conscience vote for Bush. Even though in the beginning I had leaned more towards Bush. But then he opened his mouth...whew! So, yes, I am a big Gore supporter.
I am divided on all of the squabbling that is going on right now. I have to say that I do respect Gore wanting to fight for fairness in this election, it is entirely to close. But I also feel that Gore could hurt his image and seem like a "sore loser if he persists for too long. Now, for Bush...He seems a bit to arrogant in his already appointing a cabinet and arranging his victory rally already. To me that seems ridiculous. He should have to wait this out like the rest of us, you know?
My personal opinion...Both candidates are now forever tainted. The country is very divided obviously. If Gore goes into office..he will be looked at as a cry baby...and if Bush goes into office he will be arrogant and illegitimate in the eyes of half the country. So, neitehr one will have full support of this country. And to me this seems sad! I voted for Gore and I support Gore all the way. I could never support Bush even if he goes into office...this squabbling has ruined it for me. It really makes me not want to vote in the future (roll eyes). Okay, these are some of my tormented thoughts on this whole Presidential debacle. Thank you for letting me be heard.


I Voted For Ralph Nader Who I Felt Would Lead The Country... Nov 10th. at 12:48:13 pm EST

Kaylara Nightshade (ocean twp, New Jersey US) Age: 19 - Email


I voted for Ralph Nader who I felt would lead the country best, not who I thought was going to win. I am absolutely repulsed by those people who say that by exercising my right and duty to vote that I "screwed things up". This is not a two party system! It's only by taking steps in real life that the magick of change can happen.

If we want changes to happen to the present legal system, we can not idly sit back and say... "let's vote for this (or that)party because we don't want this person to win."

This "Lesser of Two evils" mentallity is the problem. Why settle for that! Why not go for the best you can find, not just what the government and media spoon feed you. Funny though, even with out media and government backing, look at how many people voted for Nader. The media only mentioned him on Election day when they started to realize how many people voted for him.

So call this the "Nader Effect" so what? It's time this system changed. Question Authority, Question reality, Live free and Harm none!

*pant* *pant*
Thanks for listening


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