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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,369,689  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Let Me Just Start Of By Stating What I Have Seen And... Sep 14th. at 9:59:04 pm UTC

Jose Lopez (Richardson) Age: 16 - Email


Let me just start of by stating what I have seen and then goig into what my beliefs are. On the day of the attack I was in tutorings of my engilsh class, the annoucements suddenly came on I saw what was goig on, and I was in shock about for 5 min, to which I didn't speak a word. Aftewards I headed to my other classroom and minutes later the other twin came down ( but knowing of afteshock, and massive heat that was something unoforetunately I was thinking it would happen). I think my school L.V. Berkner Richardson TX did a real bad job a showing the news. See what they did was showed it up to the collapsion of the second building collapsing, and then cut it off. But anyways I couldn
t really think for the rest of the day i was reall just thinking about what happened. I went home and watched the news for about an hr. so I could see a big picture. But what really bothered me the most was seeing palestinians burning the american flag and celebrating after what happened. OOOOhhh yeah the thing that I was mainly thinking about what my brother who attends princeton which is close to NY. But he called and said he was fine. Now to what I think which many of ya might dissagre with but that's just what I really think. I belive that the government is doing to little to find any suspects on this attack obiousely it's not questioning any person from overseas, nor is it really in my opionion doing there job ( and yes I'm going to be a investigator so I can do a better job). Next I think the people are sure are praying alot and not really making a difference ( and yes I'm making a difference). And finally I think this country should come toghether not as a whole to show there nationalism but to send and inforce the palestine land, and investigate it from overseas and not just the us bc obiousely it came from there.


Witches And Pagans Oppose War -- A Call For Peace From Coven Oldenwilde... Sep 14th. at 10:17:06 pm UTC

Lady Passion, High Priestess, Coven Oldenwilde (Asheville, North Carolina US) Age: 38 - Email


Witches and Pagans Oppose War -- A Call for Peace from Coven Oldenwilde

Sadly, the U.S. government routinely initiates intermittent wars and military "actions" against peoples in all parts of the planet. Within recent
times, we've all been made aware how the power elite oppress foreign societies by imposing their choice of leaders on the populace -- only to
vilify and attempt to assassinate their political pawns whenever they cease or refuse to push the capitalist agenda (e.g., Castro, Khomeini,
Marcos, Noriega, Khadafi, Saddam Hussein, and most recently, Osama bin Laden). Though "public enemies'" names change from year to year,
the American way of provoking war is abysmally clear, meticulously documented, and readily understandable by all concerned citizens. (See the
"History and Politics" section of our Recommended Reading List on our website at: http://members.aol.com/oldenwilde/ or www.oldenwilde.org).

As a legal option always available to men and women who are subject to the draft, conscientious objection naturally receives more urgent
prominence whenever the government creates or overreacts to "threats" of opposition to its policies, and starts to conscript civilians to serve as
cannon fodder. But the rational, compassionate arguments that support conscientious objection are useful on a daily basis as well -- to counter
war-fevered friends and family who argue loudly in favor of physically fighting "foes".

Witches, of course, are spiritually opposed to war and military conflict of all forms. Not only do we believe in walking a peaceful Path, we
actively insist on our rights to do so.

Witches are keepers of their people's conscience. During such incessantly recurring times of "national peril", Witches remain resolute and
centered in our abhorrence of war, standing fast through the madness like the mountain range that dissipates the hurricane's force. We may spell,
march, and rally for peace during wartime, or write commentaries and letters to the editor of our local papers advocating for diplomatic,
non-violent approaches. Whatever we do, Witches seek to remind their neighbors and loved ones of the folly of blind patriotism in the absence
of real facts, and the dangers of the inevitable propaganda that misleads many about the true state of affairs.

Witches do not live for the heat of the moment. We have unique, magical abilities, and therefore the obligation to our communities that seers and
priest/esses have always borne of taking the long view when it comes to politics and trends. In times of "national crisis", Pagans must calm the
distressed, and assist folks to banish their conditioned prejudices against the villain du jour (who is, all too often these days, a dark-skinned,
non-christian foreigner).

Witches will always resist war fever -- wherever, whenever, and however it manifests.

May the Gods Preserve the Craft!


I Was Watching The News With My Mom And Brother When I... Sep 14th. at 10:18:41 pm UTC

Peter (Allentown, Pennsylvania US) Age: 13 - Email


I was watching the news with my mom and brother when I heard what a guy said(sorry i forgot his name), "...this all happened because of the pagans, gays, lesbians, and abortionists different view of life." Now after hearing that i was about to break down in tears. I couldn't believe a guy just blamed all of this on people. This would never happen if there were never anybody like him in the world. because we would all be kind and accepting to all. sorry for my spelling im typing fast and i am praying to the lord and lady every night. Blessed Be to all and Merry Meet, Merry Part, and Merry Meet Again.


My Coven And I Are Lighting Black Candles On Monday (the New... Sep 14th. at 10:19:25 pm UTC

Meadowlark (Dayton, Ohio US) Age: 29 - Email


My coven and I are lighting black candles on Monday (the new moon) and chanting to end terrorism everywhere.


I Think This Sums My Thoughts Up As A Pagan Who Seeks... Sep 14th. at 10:22:55 pm UTC

Lily McAllister (Atlanta, Georgia US) Age: 40


I think this sums my thoughts up as a pagan who seeks tolerance.

From the New Zealand Herald:

Dialogue: If only we could put God on hold

15.09.2001 By GORDON McLAUCHLAN
What a shame the world couldn't have a moratorium on God for the 21st century, I thought after watching some young Palestinians dancing gleefully in the streets, celebrating the New York slaughter, and shouting "God is great".

It was a few minutes after Ariel Sharon, Israel's Jewish apostle of vengeful violence had pledged help for the United States.

Earlier in the week, I read that Muslim bodies littered a street somewhere, slaughtered by Christians who outnumbered them; and in Northern Ireland Catholics and Protestants dipped again into the bottomless well of religious hatred.

On the Indian subcontinent, Hindus kill Muslims and vice versa, and Sikhs kill and are killed by them both as a side dish.

Earlier this year, we were treated to a story about some elderly Hindu men murdering young women who, they felt, were breaching their religion's moral code by dressing in a provocative manner.

Iran is still ruled by bigots, but slightly less savage now than a few years ago when dissent was a capital offence.

If you didn't believe in their version of the next world, they sent you off to it early to be convinced. And that's something that interests me: that so many religions speak piously of the ultimate judgment of God but insist on intercession on Earth for their own vindictive punishments.

Buddhists immolate themselves in protest against the coarse events of this world.

And the latest scourge is the Taleban, maniacal zealots who have arisen from the carnage that has been life in Afghanistan for the past few decades.

These people are the right hand of their very own savage, blood-lusting deity. Tens of thousands of people who don't agree with them have fled for their lives and clogged the refugee conduits of the world.

If all these people are right about God and they are all monotheists - then one can assume that, if we could identify and catch him, he would have to be tried for crimes against humanity.

As a writer I try to imagine myself in the minds and hearts of other people in an effort to understand their impulses and motives; so I think of the aftermath meeting among the conspirators that put together with detailed planning and some finesse these insane and barbaric acts in New York and Washington.

Do they sit around and say they have struck a blow for humanity? Or for their race? Or for their political party? Or just for king and country?

No, they could only justify this to themselves and others by invoking the will of God. Men can only be persuaded to die voluntarily and gloriously for their particular version of God and their imagined hereafter.

That's why George W. Bush and others are tactically astray when they talk in their understandable anguish and grief of hunting down and punishing those cowards who are responsible. Cowardice is a vice that exists only among normal people who fail to measure up to the standards of common, humane morality.

These mass murderers who kill themselves for the glory of their religion are beyond the concept of cowardice; and how can you punish them when they know they can outwit you by happily killing themselves for their celestial cause?

People's gods and their theology are reflections of themselves. Decent, kind, compassionate people see God that way. Brutal, pitiless, psychotic people may share a vengeful, ruthless God of the same name who justifies their inhumanity.

One of the things almost every religion traditionally has in common is exclusivity. We have contact with the deity and, therefore, we know we are right and you are wrong. You will be shut out from heaven, or Valhalla, or wherever, because ours is the one true God, not yours.

Religions traditionally focus on differences whereas all the humanists, all the agnostics and most of the atheists I know think inclusively and concentrate on the shared humanity we all possess.

So what a shame we couldn't get all people to put God on hold for a while, and rebuff visions of the next world in a bid to put this one right.

Then the psychopaths and the exclusivists would be seen to be what they are - murderers and bigots - and not be able to cite an invisible higher power as vindication for their violence and thus to hide behind the image of their God.

I think it was Arthur Koestler who said the main cause of the world's problems was not so much some innate impulse for violence in men but the need for people to be certain they are right about everything by forcing others to acknowledge that rightness.

Sadly, people won't go along with my idea because it seems the more insecure they are the more devout they need to be and thus the more spiritually naked and terrified they would feel without their protective dogma.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=216982&thesection=news&thesubsection=general&reportID=53510


When My Mothers Friend Called Monday Morning, I Listened To My Mother's... Sep 14th. at 10:26:30 pm UTC

Sylver Hawke (Worcester, New York US) Age: 18 - Email


When my mothers friend called Monday morning, I listened to my mother's reaction to the words I could not hear. I knew something horrible had happened, however I was not prepared for what I saw when my mother shouted to turn on the news. As the news unfolded, I realized how naive I truly was. I thought that nothing like this could ever happen here, not in a country as civilized and safe as the U.S. I realized that no matter how civilized and safe we are, we cannot protect ourselves from those who are not. Starting at 9 a.m. on Tuesday morning I have been writing down every piece of information about this tragedy as I can in my journal. I have collected as many newspapers as I can. I guess it helps me to understand and take in what I see and hear on the news. I can look back and teach my children 20 yrs from now, never take your freedom for granted, because it can be disrupted as quickly as this. I take comfort in the fact that those souls who lost their lives are being comforted in the arms of the Goddess. We are stronger as a nation now. We are not torn, we are strong and we will prevail!


In Newmarket, Most Area Witches Are Being Asked To Light A Candle... Sep 14th. at 10:43:19 pm UTC

Jen (Newmarket, Ontario CA) Age: 19 - Email


In Newmarket, most area witches are being asked to light a candle per night for one week since the day of the tragedy. I don't care if it's a big candle or a little candle, or seven different candles. I just want people to take a moment to reflect on what's happened and what the reprecussions are going to be in the weeks and months to come.


Robertson Defends Falwell's Remarkstoday At 10:34:29 Pm (est)title... Sep 14th. at 11:05:39 pm UTC

The Washington Post (Washington, District of Columbia US) Age: 1 - Email


Robertson Defends Falwell's Remarks
Today at 10:34:29 PM (EST)
Title: ROBERTSON DEFENDS FALWELL
Author: Chris Kahn, Associated Press
Source: The Washington Post
Article# 3415

Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson on Friday defended comments the Rev. Jerry Falwell made in an interview with Robertson that groups which "tried to secularize America" were partly to blame for the terrorist attacks.

"In no way has any guest on my program suggested that anyone other than the Middle East terrorists were responsible for the tragic events that took place on Tuesday, " Robertson said in a written statement.

Falwell, a Baptist minister and chancellor of Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., said Thursday on Robertson's religious TV program "The 700 Club" that he blames the attacks on pagans, abortionists, feminists, homosexuals, the American Civil Liberties Union and the People for the American Way.

Robertson was among conservative religious figures who backed President Bush in last year's election. A White House official called the remarks "inappropriate" and added, "the president does not share those views."

Full Article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33701-2001Sep14.html


I Have Just Heard That At 11 Pm (central Kansas Time) Witches... Sep 14th. at 11:09:02 pm UTC

Ivy (Hutchinson, Kansas US) Age: 26 - Email


I have just heard that at 11 pm (central Kansas time) Witches here (and the others we know across the country and elsewhere) are lighting candles in memory and in hopes that this carnage and dispair will be over soon. I can only hope that the Gods and Goddesses will hear us and feel as we do. It is a start.
I took a few moments at work to pray on the day of the attacks. It was the start of what I could do. There is also a few of us witches that are going to start training with the Red Cross to be prepared to be able to help, if help is needed again. It is a small part in the big picture. I am glad that this page is available and that I am not alone in wanting to use my beliefs to try to help.


This Is An Anonymous Letter That Points Out Many Good Points And... Sep 14th. at 11:14:55 pm UTC

A muslim in the US (Not Stated) Age: 50


This is an anonymous letter that points out many good points and misconceptions we may all be experiencing. I thought this was informative... and will clear up any misunderstandings. I trust it helps - Don Waterhawk (Ft Meyers, Florida)

I am a muslim and I live in the US. I was born and raised in Canada with

Indian background. I feel I need to help clear up what is true and what is

not true with regards to Islam. Islam is a religion and a person practicing

Islam is a muslim. There are five basics pillars of islam that any muslim

should follow. All the guidance of what muslims should do is in the holy

book called the Qu'ran or "Koran". Unfortunately, it seems that Bin Laden and others have taken religion as a vehicle to project their political hatred and motives. What he is doing, has nothing to do with Islam at all. Islam teaches people to be loving, peace giving, god fearing people. It teaches us to live with diversity, other religions, and humility. All the things that bin laden has said in the interviews and has done in the past are not words from the qu'ran but his words. And unfortunately the media and lack of real knowledge has blurred what is true and what is not.

The statement by binladen that non-muslims cannot live in a muslim country is false - 100% false. India was ruled by muslims for 900 years, christians, muslims and hindus lived happily together. Same in palestine, before the partition, arab jews and arab muslims lived together for hundreds of years in peace. The main reasons for hatred and fighting the past 50 years was due more to political landscape than religion. Unfortunately, religion is a powerful tool that gets people motivated and people in power have used it as the lauch pad for fighting. Another item that binladen keeps talking about is Jihad or holy war. There is discussion of Jihad in the Qu'ran and when and why it is appropriate. It

is never an offensive tactic. Jihad is only permitted when a muslim is being oppressed to practice their religion. Only real examples where Jihad may have been appropriate in recent years would be the Bosnian war where Bosnian muslims were being executed strictly based on their religion. But by no means, can a muslim country attack another country (muslim or not) as an act of Jihad. That is incorrect, the basics of islam are similar to christianity. Believe in one god. In arabic the word god is Allah. The god is the same between all three religions. jews, muslims and christians pray to the same god. That is very important to understand. But a true muslim is humble, not greedy, not arrogant and never shows jealousy. Tolerance, helping neighbours of any race, creed, or religion is the first thing. One of the five pillars of islam is to give to the poor. It's required, not a choice. As any religion or race, there are a small group of radicals that take any religion and bend it for their convenience. This seems to be the case with bin laden, saddam hussein, and others who have killed humans for their gain. None of these people will go to heaven as they believe they will. Jihad is not valid here nor does is it say to kill innocent children, parents, and siblings. Jihad only allows fighting among soliders, not civilians. Unfortunately these people are misled and doing very evil things that they will be punished for it.

I'll stop rambling here..I hope this helps you guys get a better understand

of what is going on. Just remember, Arab is a race..there are Arab Christians, Arab Jews and Arab muslims. At the moment radical arab muslims are causing trouble and doing things that are absolutely not tolerated in Islam at all. I hope these groups are stopped and removed.

I was in NYC yesterday and I was there when it happened. I saw the second plane slam into the WTC 2. It was an experience I wish I had not witnessed. But we need to grow strong and not stereotype.

best regards,


My Heart Goes Out To All That Have Sacrificed And Suffered Through... Sep 14th. at 11:36:31 pm UTC

Meridian (Worcester , Massachusetts US) Age: 19


My heart goes out to all that have sacrificed and suffered through this whole ordeal. I will pray for you.

I will also thank the Goddess that we have President Bush to finally do something about these terrorist attacks. Terrorists have plagued us for years and years and been met with only token attempts to deal with them by President Clinton. If Gore had been elected, our response would be sanctions and destroying empty asprin factories. Did Clinton really think that countries that throw acid on women for showing their faces in public would care about sanctions against their people or attacks against us? We must hit military targets in the countries (such as Afghanistan) that have been funding and supporting and sheltering these hate groups. According to the Economist, 70% of the world's opium production takes place in Afghanistan. They send drugs to our country to exploit the less fortunate members of our society, then turn around and use that drug money to murder our innocent civilians. We need to come together, and support action against terrorism around the globe. I will be lighting candles tonight for the strength and wisdom of our world leaders, in the hopes they might come together to and try and put an end to this.


My Condolences To Those Of You In The United States, I Hope... Sep 14th. at 11:38:35 pm UTC

Aeryn (Tempest Creek, The Northern Territory AU) Age: 20


My condolences to those of you in the United States, I hope your family and friends are safe. My perception from here is that the US public is baying for blood and that there will be a severe retaliation. But I hope cool heads prevail. The perpetrators should be punished but don't get sucked in by media propaganda. To escape the cycle of violence the US needs to look closely at it's foreign policy in the Middle East, so they can understand why there is such hatred. The coin is never one-sided.

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
does not become a monster. For when you look into an abyss, the abyss
also looks into you." -- Nietzsche


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