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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,823,422  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Pagan, But Not So Libral Mar 24th. at 1:34:40 pm UTC

Sharone (Gaithersburg MD) Age: 25 - Email


I really think that people need to take a look at what they are saying here.
I sure as hell don’t like Bush, however, OUR troops are over there because of the terrorist that Sadam funds, because of the support that he gives them, the weapons that we know he has. Can anyone against this war say that they are for rape camps, using biological weapons against the innocents that your all so concerned about getting killed in cross fire?
I don’t agree w/Bush on 90 % of his politics. I think that he sucks terribly, but we should have taken Sadam out the first time! & I hope that our guys not only come home safe, but come home having pummeled the poop out of his army!!
What about the fact that he has money to send to Palestinians who are blowing themselves up & none for his own people's health care of food?
Or would you all like to see us all sitting in a circle jerk waiting for more terrorists to attack???
Well I’m not going there, I’ll support our military! You know that is a part of having American pride!!

Sincerely,
the non-libral pagan ;o)


It's Still A Bad Idea Mar 24th. at 1:57:17 pm UTC

Lauryl Stone (Durham, NC) Age: 34 - Email


I can't help it; I still think this war is a bad idea.

I don't have any logical arguments to offer.

But every time I read a headline or hear news on the radio, it's like being punched in the solar plexus, and I'm overwhelmed with a sense of "wrongness" about this war. It's wrong, and bad things are going to come from it. And I've never had this reaction to anything else our government has done in my lifetime. It's hard to even really be coherent about this, it's such a gut reaction.


Let's Get It Over With Mar 24th. at 2:16:03 pm UTC

Hehtrey (New Mexico) Age: 20 - Email


I was initially against the war, and up until the first bombs were dropped, I was dearly hoping something miraculous would happen and that we would be pulled back from the brink of war. I am an Air Force wife, and I have several close friends over there right now, and a husband who has volunteered to go because he believes that strongly that we are over there out of necessity. Trust me, the idea of just ending the war and getting everyone back is tempting, but that would be at best a temporary solution, and at worst a very grave mistake. We will win this war; our technology is superior, and our troops are better trained. If we were to pull out before we accomplished all of our goals, we would not win the love of our enemies, but only show weakness to them. There are many people around the world who hate America, and would do it harm regardless of the war in Iraq. I would much prefer to appear an invincible enemy than a vulnerable enemy. For this reason, I believe the anti-war protests show a level of naivete. The protestors are welcome to their opinions, and to their constitutional right to assemble, but I personally think it's a waste of their time. Whether or not someone supports the war is sort of a moot point right now. We ARE at war, and there is little hope of a few thousand people changing that.

As far as our civil liberties go, they should never be suspended. Our troops fight preserve our freedoms, and I deeply resent the Bush Administration's largely successful attmepts to abridge those freedoms while sending those troops off to war.

My main concerns with the war is that it might win Shrub the approval rating he needs to get re-elected. In the meantime, I pray for our troops to come home safely, and pray that one day the world will be such that war is unnecessary.

Hehtrey


I Have.. Mar 24th. at 2:28:12 pm UTC

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email


I was against it but now im beyond against. I think i could argue all day against it and im tired of doing so. It is hard to comprehend how removing one man from power can justify killing inocent people. One of the US generals stated its not a fair fight why dont they just give up? Because it is their country, would you give up?
Bush has opened a can of worms and im afraid this "war" has just begun.
USA USA how many kids did you kill today?
Skeggi


I Haven't Changed My Mind. Mar 24th. at 2:45:46 pm UTC

LoneGnome (Oregon) Age: 35 - Email


I still firmly believe that Hussein should have been removed from power in 1991 and not now. If anything I am more firm in my beliefs now than before the war started given the events in Iraq.
No I don't think the anti-war protests should stop, as long as they remain peaceful. The First Ammendment protects our freedom of speech and the protesters are exercising their right to free speech. Besides when the war stops our troops come home, I agree with the protester on that.
In most cases I don't think any greater divide has been opened between ideologies. France is now willing to work with us, albeit only if Iraq uses chemical weapons. I don't think I need to go into France's stance on the war. That and some of these rifts between ideologies existed long before the war and will remain so after it's over.
In this case no, I don't think our civil liberties should be curtailed by security. I feel that doing so is giving into the terrorists and Hussein. I never really felt threatened before the war, so how could I feel any safer?
The world more secure??? No, unfortunately not. I expect Al-Qaeda to get some very new recruits in the coming months.
I just hope that the conditions in Iraq are better after Hussein's removal, but I fear they won't be.


Go Troops!! Mar 24th. at 2:55:17 pm UTC

MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) Age: 39 - Email


I've flip-flopped more than once on this issue. I'd hate the be the one calling the shots. Goddess help him.

If I choose to believe that we bailed on the Iraqi people before then I wonder why it's taken us so long to go back and take saddam & co. out. Shame on us for doing that to people. I'm hearing stories that are collaborating the fact that we bailed as they rose up. I'm seeing pictures of Iraqi people that are happy to see us yet wondering if we will go the distance this time. We HAVE to. We'd better. What's right is right. If we helped saddam become who he is it's our responsibility to take him down and render him powerless. I've got no problem with that. It's practical and fair.

A person or persons that get off on torturing people for whatever reason doesn't rank really high in my estimation and I have no problem with removing their heads and piking them for all to see.
This is what happens to sick cowards. You don't treat people like that. Good thing for pedophiles and the like that I ain't Queen! Cheaper than death row! Let the Gods sort them out! oop..wrong rant!

If I can believe what I am being told, we are making every effort to make sure targets are checked, that bomb size is matched w/target size and that even things like trajectory are being calculated for the least amount of civilian casualties. I'd like to believe this as we are not barbarians and technology kicks ass! I've read that even the Iraqi people understand that innocent people will die and THEY feel it is worth it to be rid of saddam & co for good. How can I protest what the people of Iraq want?

I think everyone has the right to peacefully protest. When it ties up traffic or gets violent, it just takes away from the point of the protest, but that's mho. Some like to be over-the-top. I do not.

For me, it goes back to the Iraqi people. If they want to be free no matter what it takes, who am I to say no? Our Country can liberate them (w/the gracious help of our friends) . Go Team!

What does scare me are the ways some are trying to make this a religious thing. Like the 'pray for the president' article on Wren's Nest. The prayer was definately Christian, which I wasn't offended by until I got to the part about converting the Iraqi people to Christianity. That spun my head around. Not cool at all. Their freedom from saddam should not include conversion to Christianity. ick. That bugs me. It shouldn't even be in the prayer, but there is it.

So....who knows. There are so many variables it hurts my head to think about it too much. I do know that I pray for the troops and innocents. I pray it is over as soon as possible and as bloodless as possible and that we follow thru til it's done completely this time. I pray for hope & I pray for peace. I also thank the Goddess I am not in charge!

Praying for Wisdom for the powers that be.

MoonOwl


Still Opposed Mar 24th. at 3:20:44 pm UTC

Bran (Minnesota) Age: 24 - Email


I have not changed my mind. This war is still heinous and unjust. I support our troops: I want them home, safe, *alive.* We don't need more dead, Iraqi or American.

Pro-peace protests should continue as long as the war is in progress. No, we can't prevent it, and we probably can't even shorten it. But President Bush needs to understand how many of the American voters oppose his actions; he needs to hear that what he's doing is *not okay.* If we stop standing up to totalitarian actions, the President will believe the people have given him carte blanche to *be* totalitarian. The gap *does* continue to grow between the sides of this issue, as pro-war demonstrators accuse pro-peace demonstrators of being 'un-American' or 'pro-terrorism, ' and pro-peace rallies become more aggressive and sometimes violent. We're straying from a place where disagreements in opinions simply mean disagreements in opinions; we're forgetting that every American has the right to free speech and expression, the right to their own beliefs.

Suspension of any civil liberties is *never* appropriate - at any time, for any reason. It didn't work during the McCarthy era, and it won't work now. It won't make us safer, just less free. And this action won't make us or the world safer. It will make us more hated by the international community; it will make the world more US-run. And as difficult as some may find this to believe, other nations of the world are capable of running themselves. We are not the world's policeman, not the world's babysitter; we should not be ordering other countries to 'be like us.'

I am terrified that the war will end but the infringement of civil liberties will not. I am terrified that our scores of new enemies will not forget what we have done here. I am terrified that, if one pre-emptive war proves successful, our nation will begin rushing headlong into more, becoming little more than a bully on the international playground.


The Goddess Knows Mar 24th. at 4:28:13 pm UTC

Tedd Savage/ENOON (Everetts, North Carolina, USA) Age: 51 - Email


If the land of Inana, Ishtar, has a voice deep inside she would screem for release from her capture. If you look closely at the
way the places of worship (so called) are shaped their bias for and their bias against are revealed. The reason why we are
there fighting and the reason why I accept the goddess are the same. May the Goddess be free!


Still Against The War! Mar 24th. at 5:59:03 pm UTC

Celticmoon (Oklahoma) Age: 54 - Email


I am still very much against the war. However, I do support our troops, and hope they can come home soon. Too many lives have been lost!

The protests should continue. We need to let the leaders of every country know that we know this is an unjust war. I do believe the divide is greater than before.

Civil liberties should NEVER be suspended!! I'm not afraid of the terrorists, but I am very afraid of the loss of civil liberties. I feel that the world will never be safe again!

What really frightens me about this war? I'm afraid Bush has the "domino effect" all wrong. We won't see democracy popping all over the middle east. Instead, we will see more wars popping up. Our country has started something that, IMHO, will never end. I hate to be so pessimistic, but that is how I feel.


I'd Like To Change My Mind... Mar 24th. at 6:00:54 pm UTC

Tawny (Southern Cal.) Age: 21 - Email


BUT To change my mind I would have to subscribe to the 'reality' that....

1. Bush and friends actually ARE doing this for the iraqui people
2. This isn't about oil, military or reconstruction contacts.
3. bush was truly a 'uniter'
4. our own top gov. folks had THEIR children over there
5. Sadam was responsible for 911
6. Sadam will attack us anyday now.
7. The inspections weren't moving forward.

Fact is... I can't believe any of these PR spins from our current admin.

I support our troops and will them a safe return...

AND our president is thrilled... HE said three times yesterday. 'The oil fields are safe' - (for the iraqui people? Yeah right!!!!)


"Silence Implies Consent" Mar 24th. at 6:47:01 pm UTC

Gloria Fiorini (Cave Junction, OR) Age: 46 - Email


Don't let my Women in Black group know this, but I have agonized over whether or not to give up our vigils. Sometimes it seems pointless. We were, after all, profoundly ignored by the PTB in Washington. People in Iraq, both our guys and their civilians, are dying even as I write this. Why not give up? I've thought. I tried, didn't I? My hands are clean, aren't they?

But I can't, I just can't give up. "Silence implies consent." If I remain silent, I imply that I agree with the dual wars against the Iraqi people and against our civil rights. And I do not consent---I WILL NOT CONSENT! I still stand against this war, regardless of whatever excuse they care to use; whether they still claim to be liberating the Iraqis or whether they finally come clean and admit that it's really all about the oil. I stand against our troops dying because they trusted a government that thinks of them the way you and I think of a toolchest full of hammers and screwdrivers. I stand against "friendly fire" and "collateral damage, " and destroying thousands of Iraqi lives under the pretext of "liberating" them. I stand against American citizens being treated like traitors and criminals for the books they read and the people they know. I can't quit. I can't turn off half my brain and pretend everything's going to be fine just because Bush says so.

So you'll find me out there, standing vigil with the rest of the Women in Black, until this insanity ends.


Hmm... Mar 24th. at 6:48:21 pm UTC

Casey (NC) Age: 15 - Email


I'm sort of in between on this. I think we could have handled this in better ways, but i do think that Saddam should be taken out of control. He kills his own people, and whether or not our motives are to help the Iraqi people, we will be taking him out.
Saddam kills his own people, so, whether or not Bush's main intention is to liberate the Iraqi people (probably not) , they will be liberated from their opressive dictator.

*Goddess Bless the Troops and the Iraqi People*


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