Your browser does not support script

Pagan Perspectives

Weekly Question

Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

Views: [32,767]
Responses: [2,666]

The Rules
Note: The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.

For Further
Visit The

WitchVox List
of 242
'Net Sites:

Chat Boards
Email Lists
IRC Channels

Past Questions
112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

111. So, You’re Dead. Now What? - [59]

110. What’s Your Favorite Element? - [119]

109. The Broom Closet Revisited: What’s Your Current Occupancy Rate? - [129]

108. Do You Speak Pagan Geek? - [38]

107. Would You Be A Good ‘Reality Show’ Contestant? - [49]

106. What Is Your Inner Animal? - [127]

105. Are Pagans TOO Individualistic? - [56]

104. Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq? - [258]

103. What Are You Reading? - [95]

102. Do Interfaith Conferences/ Discussions Work? - [29]

101. Have You Made Any Extra Security Preparations? - [85]

100. Why Are You A Pagan or Heathen? - [142]

99. What Moon Phase Are You In? - [70]

98. Would You Live In A Haunted House? - [166]

97. What Natural Objects Are On Your Altar? - [103]

96. If You Were Granted Three Wishes... - [179]

95. How Do You Feel About War? - [153]

94. Who Would Make Your Pagan/Heathen Who’s Who List? - [91]

93. Should Pagans Apply For Federal Funds? - [56]

92. What Do You See in 2003? - [47]

90. Which Christmas Ghost Would You Like To Be? - [82]

89. Bah-Humbug! Are You Offended by Christmas? - [173]

88. Are We Alone in The Universe? - [67]

87. The Pagan Web 2002... Your likes? Dislikes? - [50]

86. How’s Your Gratitude Attitude? - [64]

85. What’s Your Motivation? - [97]

84. Between the Veils: What Did You See? - [80]

83. Time to Talk Politics and Elections… - [109]

82. Your Samhain/Beltaine Musings - [50]

81. ExCUSE Me! Has Common Courtesy Become A Thing of the Past? - [97]

80. Polytheist, Monotheist, Dualist or Other? - [104]

79. Have You Switched Pagan Paths? - [110]

78. Would You Take Part in a Public Event or Protest AS a Pagan? - [268]

77. Pot-Kettle: Do We Have Our Own Fundamentalists? - [91]

76. America 911: One Year Later. What's Changed? Are we Safer? - [103]

75. So What Do YOU Think of the Pagan Web? - [43]

74. What is/was your 2002 New Year's resolution - [23]

73. Do You Believe in Faeries? - [44]

72. Is 'Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men' Possible? - [28]

71. How Do YOU View the Balance of Light and Dark? - [22]

70. What's News? - [22]

69. What Are Your Favorite Yule Traditions or Memories? - [17]

68. Are You Wild About Harry? - [80]

67. What Is Music? - [18]

66. What Did You Do this Samhain? - [8]

65. What ARE the most "Frequently Asked Questions' About Witches? - [31]

64. What Are YOUR book/video/dvd Recommendations? - [119]

63. Have You Done Any Protection Spells or Workings? - [38]

62. What Are Your Thoughts On The Current "War on Terrorism"? - [77]

61. Are You Willing To Give Up Some Civil Liberties To Be Safe? - [69]

60. What About Those Pagan Leaders Again? - [289]

59. 911 America: Talking Through The Terror... - [969]

58. What Are Your Plans For Fall? - [21]

57. If You Were Stranded Alone On A Deserted Island... - [56]

56. What Would You Like to See at The Voice? - [65]

55. What Lies Beyond? - [28]

54. What is the connection between Spirit, Nature and Humankind? - [18]

53. What is 'Will' or 'Willpower'? - [19]

52. Have you ever been to a Pagan Festival? - [26]

51. What Did You Think of 'The Mists of Avalon"? - [44]

50. What's Your Magickal Focus? - [33]

49. Ending Religious Discrimination-What's It Gonna Take? - [41]

48. How Fares The First Amendment? - [20]

47. Are you a Talker or a Listener? - [14]

46. Predator and Prey - What Beasts Live Within You? - [44]

45. Who Do You Trust? - [22]

44. Do You Spend Money with Pagan Merchants? - [24]

43. What's On Your Balloon? - [52]

42. Is There An Energy Crisis? - [30]

41. What Makes You So Special? - [33]

40. What is Your Guilty Little Secret? - [101]

39. Who Are Your Gods? - [55]

38. What Are The Greatest Challenges That Pagans Face Today? - [35]

37. What's On Your Altar? - [45]

36. Should the United States Apologize to China - [32]

35. Pagan Web Surfing Likes/Dislike - [60]

34. What Are Your Views on Abortion, Euthanasia and Suicide? - [95]

33. What Is The Appropriate Response to Bigotry and Religious Hatred? - [108]

32. Why Are Kids Killing Kids? - [60]

31. Whassa Matter With Kids Today? - [71]

30. What Do You Support and Why Do You Support It? - [21]

29. How About Some New Holidays? - [39]

28. Where Did You Get Your Magickal Name? - [93]

27. Where Are The Pagan Social Programs? Do We Care? - [22]

26. What Do You Think About Bush's 'Faith-Based' Initiative Plan? - [87]

25. What Are The Boundaries? - [26]

24. What is Pagan History and What is Pagan Belief? - [44]

23. Who or What is a "Pagan Leader"? - [61]

22. What More Do You Want To Know About Paganism? - [45]

21. What is/was your New Year's resolution? - [19]

19. What do YOU of our newest entry into the Presidential Political Pool? - [61]

20. What have YOU done to trace your family history? - [11]

18. Your Gift, Craft and Holiday Celebration Ideas! - [43]

17. Does Older Equal Better? - [199]

16. What is the best gift that you ever received? - [28]

15. What are YOU Thankful For? - [87]

14. The Unresolved US Election - [263]

13. Divination - [29]

12. Pagan Choice for the y2k US Election - [129]

11. Hollywood Hype - [74]

10. Money and the Craft - [82]

9. Pagan Jokes and Humorous Stories - [37]

8. Misconceptions About Witches, Wiccans and Pagans - [63]

7. The Ethics of Magick and Spellwork - [43]

6. What are YOU planning for Mabon-Autumn Equinox? - [14]

5. Pagan books/web sites-dynamic or drivel? - [46]

4. The Broomcloset-In or Out?... What's YOUR View? - [181]

3. Church and State, Religion in School... What is YOUR View? - [122]

2. How Do You Define Witch/WitchCraft? - [42]

1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]

 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 19,992,562  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 28

Lurker/Post Ratio: 1170 to 1

Question of the Week: 72 - 12/24/2001

Is 'Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men' Possible?

Is a workable 'peace on earth' just wishful or spiritual thinking or is it really possible? What would it take to achieve such a goal? Is it even a 'good' thing to attempt to bring about? How are your personal levels of tolerance tested in this world and how well do you think that you respond when someone demonstrates an attitude of intolerance towards you? Where do you draw the line and finally say, "No more!" What do you think about the current and future state of the laws that define 'legal' tolerance? Will they hold up over the years? Do you think that we are making progress as Pagans and as human towards a universal set of human rights guidelines? Should we even go there at all? What role does religion or spirituality- for better or for worse- play in the arena of religious and civil rights and/or the quest for peace?

 Reponses:   There are 28 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

Perhaps "workable," But I Don't Think It Would Be "sincere." (although After... Dec 17th. at 4:22:09 pm EST

Ciarrai (Somewhere In Middlesex County, New Jersey US) Age: 34 - Email

Perhaps "workable, " but I don't think it would be "sincere." (Although after a "holiday lunch" today w/ some of the girls at work, in our company newspaper, I noted a, now this is a direct quote under "things to do" -- WICCAN Winter Solitice Ritual, please RVSP to..." which just blew my mind out of the water... (I work for a Fortune 500 company...) I was like, WHOA, this is tres cool to see!

I've become very intolerant with my own immediate family that feels that they must constantly force their beliefs down my throat in spite of the fact that they think I'm still a full blown out Roman Catholic (their trad thinks that the Catholics are no more than candy coated Pagans goin' straight to hell).

I hope that my company newspaper is a sign that perhaps in my lifetime that we will life in a more "tolerant" environment. "Tolerant" is better than nothing.

As far as "acceptance" is concerned, I dunno....!!!

Peace & BB,

A.)" Is A Workable 'peace On Earth' Just Wishful Or Spiritual Thinking... Dec 17th. at 11:12:29 pm EST

spiravdaeg (Bradenton, Florida US) Age: 47 - Email

a.)" Is a workable 'peace on earth' just wishful or spiritual thinking or is it really possible?"

It has never been possible insofar as history is concerned. That is the fact. Like it or not, for as long as our records show, there has been a cyclicar nature to mankind's warlike nature. We as a species are the most aggressive and deadly animals in the world. Argue all you wish and postulate as necessary. This is not something that can be debated. The cyles of war fall at apx. 142, 52, 22.2, and at 11.2 year intervals [Found- ation for the study of cycles., 1971]. To answer this first part of question #72 in light of only historical fact and with no other well-founded possibility, I would be forced to honestly answer, no.

It is though the nature of this question to ask whether we as that same portion of zoology can will change. And as we all feel that there is veracity to the concept of magic; furthermore and more importantly, also have responded in our minds and hearts as being certain that we ourselves can so enact events magical. That is, we can change. Anything. In view of this inner response, and if sincerely experienced and carried through to fruition, the action can occur. The answer to the question would be then, yes.

The question becomes: b.)"What would it take to achieve such a goal?"

Well, it seems obvious that as it would in any other task we should set before ourselves, the materials required to complete that task would need to be gathered. Against a force that has carried through time as long as we have recorded and documented, these materials and the tools required to work with those materials must needs be significant. I am unsure if not we have to develop these tools as what we now utilize has not yet proven sufficient to halt the awful flow of death, destruction and what I feel is the most terrible - the time that has been wasted, lives spent doing nothing constructive, the ability of each man, woman and child throughout history that never developed to its potential. That is the truest horror of loss in my estimation. Its sum effect is incalculable.

So the deepest investigation would need to made with but one criteria being examined for. That point of beginning would have to absolutely insist upon what works. Nothing else. The effort expended and level of expertise would have to be considerable. A failed attempt would only mean that the cycle(s) would continue. As those same rythums are so reliable, no argument is possible as to the effectiveness of any action to wrest control against the assault of the present. Actions will either work or not.

Now we have this: c.)"Is it even a 'good' thing to attempt to bring about?"

Interestingly enough, alongside our history has been the parallel development of a structure of behavior auxilary to our physical survival. This is a creation of thought we term variously as concepts of things we feel we know. To know. We say 'we know' in groups of thought such as theology, philosophy, cosmology, all physical sciences. All things that we once felt we either did not know or were incorrect as to our knowledge. It is by having erred. And in light of the question, one that we have never to date answered correctly. We have assigned ethics, morals, tests of all kinds, methodologies and inquiries into our attempt to live lives as we each feel is correct. Though we have survived to this point, as discussed the costs have been dear. So, quickly answered. Yes, if the direction and thus the costs of this try, the work needed to bring it about - to stop the recurrences; if those costs are not more dear than the repitition of the wheels of fate.

The easiest portion of the question: d.)"How are your personal levels of tolerance tested in this world and how well do you think that you respond when someone demonstrates an attitude of intolerance towards you?

And the easiest way to answer is to be painfully honest and unselfish.

Not to be flippant, but, my levels of tolerance are tested constantly, daily, and without cessation. As is any organism's. The mere occupying of space affords a certain expectation that change, thus influences, will intrude into my being. I must admit I do not readily tolerate much. Or enough. As I further must admit, that I but too often choose not to. As to how, is as to what I deem the situation to warrant.

And as to just how well. Not good enough. This most likely is a rough sketch of many others besides myself.

Leading to this: e.)"Where do you draw the line and finally say, "No more!"

Again, as many, to the extent of my power to make it the way I wish. To where or what my ability can achieve against the particular issue at hand. At what level of perceived infringement? Against my personal code, is the only true response I can give. I find that I live according to standards, measures that I have found to be acceptable to my environment and myself. Often a compromise between the two.

So the line is drawn, in my case, where it best fits - to the limits of my questionable talents brought to bear on the subject and that which I oppose.

The next portions of the question are actually the same as answered above:

f., g., h., i.)"What do you think about the current and future state of the laws that define 'legal' tolerance? Will they hold up over the years? Do you think that we are making progress as Pagans and as human towards a universal set of human rights guidelines? Should we even go there at all?"

'f. and g.' both are relevant to that of (part)'a.'s response. History and the set of governing structures that existed versus those of today are so congruent and alike as to be virtually indistinguishable. If no major upheaval of mental and emotional evolution does not take place, I can see no change taking place.

As 'i.' is the same question as 'c.' worded slightly different in my opinion, I see that the connection made by joining our belief in deity and our existence as thinking creatures; moreover, our status of deportment - that 'progress' - as conscious entities is in question 'h.'. Is this direction we drawn here, to this very question; this set of realizations and our actions, our spirits if you will, is taking us - is it a good one? Is any sort of 'right' to come about?

Time will tell. My only recourse, in my heart, is to try. To hope that betterment happens. But we must judge by the experience we create. That is the only true test. To never stop examining the facts and always be ready to admit mistake and correct for it.

And finally, the last section of the question: j.)"What role does religion or spirituality- for better or for worse- play in the arena of religious and civil rights and/or the quest for peace? "

It is so hard to conclude this final bit of the question #72. The problem being is first to define religion and/ or spirituality; let alone the assigned judgement of what is "better or worse" or what "civil rights" are. Peace is the only thing I could possibly take to be the heart of the question. What do these assignments of religion and spirituality do regarding peace? Again, I only must needs look to the past to see that they have been divisive and contra-productive in so many ways; perhaps - only perhaps (though we like to imagine, probably), have they aided our quest.

What man has held to be holy and sacred has caused much death and loss to all branches of mankind. To this very date I here sit and write, religion and spirituality as part of man's nature has and is causing death and destruction. It too is in many places abetting survival and peace. A dichotomy. It seems that we deal with the one of the ultimates in double-edged tools. A tool that is at once a plowshare and a sword.

The future is something with no limit. Our participation in any part of it is the issue. This earth, this space, this creation has shrugged off many that could not cope, adapt - work change. That could not perform magic.


Reading Over The Other Responses Here, I Find Myself Terribly Disheartened By... Dec 18th. at 1:32:26 am EST

Gwydion Canu Bleidd (Knoxville, Tennessee US) Age: 33 - Email

Reading over the other responses here, I find myself terribly disheartened by JourneyWalker's response--that single, final word. Never. That, from a Pagan, slightly more than half my age. How sad indeed that our youth should have such a lack of hope or optimism for all to finally come right with the world.

I admit, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. Yet I watched how the world responded to the 9/11 attacks, the outpouring of support for America, and I begin to see how such a thing is *not* out of our reach.

I consider myself a cautious, realistic optimist, but for all the caution and realism with which I temper my world view, I *am* an optimist. If we just work for it, toward it, good will toward men and women is possible and achievable. But a little tolerance and charity go a long way, and no religion has a lock on either of these things, despite what some may believe.
All Muslims are not hate-driven fanatics who want to destroy the West, nor are all Christians obsessed fundamentalists who want to wipe us off the face of the Earth. By the same token (regrettably), not all who call themselves Pagans are respectful, tolerant folk who follow the Wiccan Rede. This, I would say, goes along with the balance of Light and Dark. Balance has got to exist in Nature for life to ebb and flow as it does.

As long as we have allies and friends and other tolerant types who don't root for our destruction, those who hate and fear and persecute shall never win. While TOTAL peace is not possible, perhaps understandings can be reached, to where the intolerant are rendered distant and unimportant.

This, at least, is my hope. So mote it be.

Gwydion And All Witchvox Readers Of The Pagan Perspectives. I Know You... Dec 18th. at 8:57:05 am EST

JourneyWalker (Covington, Kentucky US) Age: 17

Gwydion and all Witchvox readers of the Pagan perspectives.

I know you are not really suppose to post anything here but opinions but I had to tell you, I am as negative as I get. I know there is never going to be peace on earth or anything
like that due to the fact, there is always going to be evil things such as hatred, bigotry, violence, war, and other of the like. I know that the world I bring my children into is not really a safe and beautiful place. I can not be optimistic because I am too much of a realist and we never see peace because, wo/man loves his/her wars and violence too much.

Then you have the ugly principles of prejudice: people hate anything that is truly different from the norm, this can be anything from color, creed, nationality, sexual preference, gender, age, etc. That comes from fear, fear dissolves into anger, anger into hatred, hatred into complete blackness. The human race will never get over this handicap.

I became very negative from reading a bit too much history and experience intolerance first hand all my life. My friend Ali, who is Muslim has been basically tortured for the last past three months from people who are ignorant.

Two days after the 11th event, He was assaulted in the halls of my school by five guys, then at a football game, they tore up his car. They scracthed the words "Go home Muslim" and "Bin Laden's Bitch." On the the hood of his car. They soaped up the car and smashed in the windows and
now it is barely able to drive.

It got so bad he left school and now goes to a different, now , his parents are pressing charges.

This is what I mean, the world will never change because the human race does not want to change.

Thank you for reading my rant!

Imagine There's No Heaven It's Easy If You Try No Hell Below... Dec 18th. at 9:10:09 am EST

Dolphinsmile (Dallas, Texas US) Age: 20 - Email

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one"

When I first heard this song it really made me think, and I thought about almost the exact same questions that witchvox asks this week. Is it possible? I finally decided maybe, or maybe not, but that's not the important thing. The important thing is that we try.

There's always room for improvement. Think of the things that have happened when people really tried to imagine...really believed...that people could get along. Wonderful things, right? If we imagine we can, if we believe we can, then we can. Isn't that how magick works?

I know it's hard, and "world peace" will not happen any time soon, but it's the trying that counts. Maybe someday we will have no countries, no greed, no hunger, no religions (by that I mean religions as a dividing force as opposed to faith or spirituality, which I think are fine). Maybe someday it will be like that. I don't know.

But I think it's still worth it to at least imagine that it might be possible.

This Topic Rang Home True For Me Last Week. I Am The... Dec 18th. at 1:19:26 pm EST

Cedar Mantis (Gladstone, Oregon US) Age: 28 - Email

This topic rang home true for me last week. I am the Oregon State director for WARD so my ears and eyes naturally perk up when issues arise.
Case in point. Every day I must drive past a Christian church. You know the ones. Big sign outside usually with some distasteful comment urging us "misguided" souls to find Christ. I usually turn the other cheek in an admirable Pagan way, but this time, I had to say something.
The message was"Christmas or Mythmas? Only one offers real hope". OK, time to send a friendly email! So I sent one correcting the pastor, giving historal tidbits regarding the true nature of Christmas. I concluded by stating I hoped that we could learn tolerance for other ways. I said I encouraged him to teach his followers their path, but not to berate others' ideas in the process.
He was not too happy with my comments and sent a few of his own. He tried to imply I was showing intolerance by sending my email. I must say, this did make me think.
Here's what I concluded. If he had simply put a sign saying something like "Christ is cool. You ought to check us out", that would have been one thing. But to put a slant on other beliefs while hiding behind a veil of free speech leaves you open to equal opposition.
Now I'm not going to go into the injustice of it all but what would happen if I put a bright shining pentagram outside my home for all to see? I have the right and it doesn't berate anybody. It simply expresses my personal faith. Now consider this. What if I put a nice big sign saying "Jesus sucks"? Hmmm, do you think I'd get angry comments on that?
I guess what it boils down to is that there are shades of grey to our freedoms. To have tolerance shown on us we need to be ready to display the same tolerance on them. We can co exist with our oppressors but sometimes we need to clash our freedoms together.
I had to say something because I vowed to when I accepted my job with WARD and signed Tempest Smith's decree. Where to draw that line is hard to say though. My spirit guide would no doubt suggest "follow your heart".

I Think It's Easy To Become Cynical About This Question. After All... Dec 18th. at 2:31:48 pm EST

John (New Naumkeag, Ohio US) Age: 34 - Email

I think it's easy to become cynical about this question. After all, people have always known war and other forms of violence (physical and nonphysical).

On the other hand, I think it is easy to become naive or foolish in optimism that progress in technology and even in civilization is a guarantee of peace. The twentieth century especially belies that notion.

The answer to me is (of course, as a Pagan and as a Witch) the Balance. Peace and Violence are both part of the Balance. So, if we manage not to blow ourselves up, nor kill ourselves off with genetic engineering nor bake ourselves bye-bye with global warming nor who knows what other forms of violence to ourselves and our planet, I think we'll see more physical peace -- for all sorts of practical as well as altruistic reasons. But I don't think violence (physical or otherwise) will never completely go away - because it's part of us.

Now as for spiritual peace: that is always available. It occurs one human heart, one human soul at a time; it occurs through receiving, living, giving and realizing Truth (usually through learning how to love others).

And, as Pagans of the West, we can echo and work for tolerance here in the sense of what the Pagans of the East (Hindus, in the Rig Veda 1.164.46) said so long ago: "For Truth is One, and the sages call It by different Names." In fact, we are doing so already.

Well, Last I Checked, Universal Peace And Goodwill Don't Violate The Laws... Dec 18th. at 5:10:35 pm EST

Aedh Rua UiMhorrighu (New Richmond, Wisconsin US) Age: 36 - Email

Well, last I checked, universal peace and goodwill don't violate the laws of physics, so I suppose they are indeed technically possible. But, we must make a distinction here between technical possibility and any degree of likelihood. Are "peace on Earth and goodwill toward men" possible? Sure. Is there any reason to see them coming about any time soon or late? Not likely.

Universal peace, or even just avoidance of atrocity, would require all human beings, and all human factions to adopt the same standards of tolerance and mutual respect. Given the sheer number of factions, and the percentage which follow one or another type of intolerant monotheism or integral nationalism, I doubt that this is even remotely achievable.

Another way to guarantee universal peace would be a very well-armed, tolerant, and disinterested world state simply imposing world peace. This is likely to be a cure worse than the disease. Such a state would face an almost impossible task in keeping from being corrupted in one way or another, and a constant guerilla war against most of the human race.

At the present time we are making some progress toward the establishment of certain limits on conflict, though the multiplication of groups hostile to this consensus does not bode well for its enduring. The United States and the UN have tried to keep radical factions from aquiring nuclear or other weapons of mass destruction. So far, this has been successful. Whether it will continue to be is unlikely.

Religion plays a huge role in all of this. The worst offenders in this arena throughout history have either been monotheistic religions or secular ideologies heavily influenced by monotheistic religions. The growth of Paganism is a very good thing, in part because Pagans are generally much more inherantly diverse and tolerant than are most Christians, Moslems, or other monotheists. Should the United States ever become a predominantly Pagan country, it will probably make for a greater degree of tolerance and mutual acceptance in American society.

If this should ever happen, it would also likely mean better relations between the United States and many Asian countries, especially India, China, and Japan. On the other hand, it would mean greater conflict between the United States and the countries of the Middle East, and probably Africa, as well, these being predominantly inhabited by Moslems or conservative Christians.

Before the United States ever becomes a Pagan country, it will go through, is going through, a period of greater intolerance, and erosion of both civil liberties and civility. Unfortunately, the attack on the WTC has galvanized the most extreme and intolerant factions in American society in an effort to sieze absolute power. And, so far, there is little to stop them. At the very least, the legal protections of freedom and tolerance are going to be decimated over the next few years. Whether this results in the rise of an "American Christian Taliban" has yet to be decided.

In the end, if we wish to survive, Pagans are going to have to become a hell of a lot LESS tolerant than we are. We are going to have to react to any attacks on our community with overwhelming legal force, while the laws which protect us still exist. As those laws erode, we will need to use other methods. We are not numerous enough to use armed methods or terrorism, so we will have to be fiendishly clever in coming up with ways to make anyone who steps on us miserable.

If things here get bad enough (and wouldn't you say that the fundie president organizing secret military tribunals is definitely getting there?) then we will need to relocate either within or outside the United States. A while ago, I suggested that we might need to concentrate ourselves in a single, out of the way state with lots of resources, and few mundane residents. Alaska was the obvious choice. Well, things seemed not to be going that way, so I dropped the idea. Now, though, the Alaska Plan is looking better and better.

As Long As People Keep Trying To Make Everyone Else See And... Dec 18th. at 11:21:33 pm EST

Jennifer Jonas (Winnipeg, Manitoba CA) Age: 21 - Email

As long as people keep trying to make everyone else see and follow their point of view, no, there won't be peace on earth. As long as there are stupid toys that children crave and over commercialized "specials" at fast food chains, there will never be good will toward men (and women). As soon as people start realizing that everyone has an opinion, and, while we may not respect it or follow it, it's their opinion, maybe there can be some sort of...well, not quite peace, but, workability (not sure it's a word, but, it works!) There will probably not be true peace on earth as long as everyone has their own strong opinions about things....but, maybe, just maybe, one day we'll learn to live together in some sort of agreement that we all have opinions....who knows. I do know that without the help of other people, there's no way that we can form our own opinions. I mean, if there weren't people like Jerry Falwell, I wouldn't feel so strongly that stupid people should have to take a test before they're let out into the wild (just're all safe from my test)
Still, though, it's not like I enjoy being told that I'm wrong for my beliefs, but, I just hope that they'll learn from my example, that, although I don't shove in their face that I think their opinions are completely inane. I just smile, nod, and walk away.....or, just tell them that I don't agree. That's all I can do to do my part in the "peace on earth and good will toward men" idea....until then, it's just a dream.

Okay, Everyone. I Have A Few Questions. (i Know, I've Been Thinking... Dec 19th. at 9:39:21 am EST

Amaranth (Cape Canaveral, Florida US) Age: 34 - Email

Okay, everyone. I have a few questions. (I know, I've been THINKING again, and I really need to stop that!) I am trying to incorporate balance and tolerance into my philosophy and practice of daily life. I have spoken to a few people who have attained - though not permanently - a state of "oneness" called different things by different religions. In that state, they felt guided at all times and in all ways by their own inner/outer (depending on the religion) divinity. They had guidance in recognizing the "line in the sand" and the necessary actions to defend it, and acknowledged others' forays past that line as inadvertent and/or "not personal." They acted truly in peace, and I was in awe. In theory, are we not all capable of this state? If we are, isn't world peace a natural extension of that individual state (albeit a lo-o-o-ong extension)?

The next question is this. Balance is an overall equality of the forces of "dark" and "light", to grab hold of a paradigm recently used on this page. But "dark" and "light" each have a positive, constructive application and a negative, destructive one. Even that choice of terminology is confusing, because there are times when construction can be positive OR negative, and destruction can be either as well. Doesn't Balance then refer (perhaps) to making the choice which is more appropriate (and less harmful) to the beings involved? And simply trusting that others are doing their best to do the same?

Next: I read here several beautifully expressed pieces in the past two weeks about the Zen practice of "disconnecting" from the karmic wheel (please forgive me if that is a poor term), of experiencing without labelling or reacting as a means to achieve balance. In my understanding, it is from experiencing our lives and our reactions that we learn our "life lessons" and work out some of the karmic obligations from our past lives. In disconnecting from these experiences, do we negatively impact our spiritual development? Or does reaction and balancing occur in spite of us somehow? Please forgive my ignorance - if this feels too off-topic for you, I would welcome an off-line response.

I bring up these things because as so many writers on this page have pointed out, world peace is not possible without the personal peace of the citizens of the world - at least not without a horrible Orwellian overtone. So in my mind, personal peace is definitely relevant to a discussion of world peace.

Finally, there's one thing I just can't keep quiet about, and that's the relevance of history to a discussion of this nature. History is important, and it has been too much neglected in the past fifty years. History does tell us that we haven't been able to accomplish peace. However, until Edison, history also told us that the indoor electric lighting was impossible. Until recently, cloning was impossible. World peace will also remain impossible UNTIL IT EXISTS. History teaches us our past, but not our potential, so it is extremely important not to let what we have done or not done limit what we try to accomplish. Keep hoping, keep loving, and maybe enough of us will create pleasant microcosms to have a positive effect on the macrocosm. As within, so without.

Blessed Be!

Of Course Peace On Earth And Good Will Towards Men Is Possible... Dec 19th. at 11:52:56 am EST

Raven Prince (Fort Lauderdale, Florida US) Age: 20

of course peace on earth and good will towards men is possible. i for one have refused to sit back and act as if i don't have control over my own feelings and behavior. i could blame my moments of personal weakness on almost anything and not really do anything about them, but i have developed an honest image of myself with a strong inner critic to keep me in check, and i don't allow myself to think' well i'm only human'. i used to be a person i was not very proud of, but finally i just told myself that i was going to simply be a better person always. i'm not perfect, but i no longer get into arguments, i no longer hang around with thugs, i no longer get turned into a ball of stress by driving or by the artificial tensions imposed by other people, i always eat well, i rarely drink, i no longer smoke, i don't do drugs, i'm going through college and starting my new career and nothing much gets me upset anymore. i have even been able to tolerate and forgive those who have caused me difficulties and harm, without returning their negativity. i have even discovered that by simply accepting the total level of control i have over myself i never have to consciously shield against bad energy because it just natural bounces off of me. and best of all is i have escaped the pendulum swing of my mental, emotional, and spiritual states by rising to a higher plane of stability.

i'm not bragging and saying all people should model themselves after me, that i am a guru or prophet or god or philosopher, that i'm perfect or any other high and arrogant thing like that. i'm saying that like most people i never used to believe i could find peace with myself, and though i don't claim i will ever achieve total inner peace i have found the peace to strive to keep myself on a higher level of being at all times, to shrug off the anchors of the superficial world that try to ground us in material reality and lower nature. this is how peace is achieved. everyone must reflect, consider, question, and ultimately we must be prepared time and time again to tear down our entire basis of belief and ideology and rebuild from scratch, keeping the best from the old and adding the best of the new. peace can never be achieved if people act without contemplating, or ground themselves in lower being without balancing their lower being with their higher being, or if they do not accept their absolute total control over themselves, and in particular there can never be peace if we as a species refuse to maintain our childlike innocence and be able to see the world without a million trillion ingrained perceptions because the fact that can be proven by history is that nearly every single belief we may hold no matter unquestionable it may seem is nonetheless wrong, so we should stick with things we know can't be wrong, like be good to the planet, love thy neighbors, follow the path of goodness, etc...

peace is possible, because it is proven even by medical science that our aggressions and predjudices are more learned than inherited. but we must find peace one person at a time.

Unfortunately, 'peace On Earth' Will Not Be Possible Until We (including All... Dec 19th. at 5:17:01 pm EST

MoonSong (Montreal, Quebec CA) Age: 23 - Email

Unfortunately, 'peace on earth' will not be possible until we (including all the people in this plane of existance) stop fearing the unknown. Not knowing and not understanding each other's religions/cultures/customs is what has been the basis for many conflicts on so many levels in the past, and will be the basis for many more to come. Educating people would be all it should take to acheve this goal, however we all know how thick-skulled some people are, especially if they have heard the same misconceptions all their lives and had them drilled into their minds, so educating people may prove to be difficult. Personal levels of tolerance are actually usually tested when someone of a certain culture/religion/nationality does something extremely shocking (i.e. the attacks on the WTC), which causes for people to put all people of the same culture/religion/nationality under the same category of so-called bad people, and this should not be the case. I usually ignore people when they are being intolerant towards myself, because it is not my problem, it's their own... That would be all I would have to say on the subject for right now, but I think that covers all I can really say on this. Brightest Blessings.

 1    2    3  

Pagan Essays

Pagan Web
8,000 Links

Pagan Groups
Local Covens etc.

80,000 Profiles

Home - TWV Logos - Email US - Privacy
News and Information

Chapters: Pagan/Heathen Basics - Pagan BOOKS - Traditions, Paths & Religions - Popular Pagan Holidays - TV & Movies - Cats of the Craft - Festival Reviews - Festival Tips - White Pages (Resources) - Issues/Concerns - West Memphis 3 - Witch Hunts - Pagan Protection Tips - Healing Planet Earth

Your Voices: Adult Essays - Young Pagan Essays - Pagan Perspectives (On Hold) - WitchWars: Fire in the Craft - Gay Pagan - Pagan Parenting - Military - Pagan Passages

Pagan Music: Pagan Musicians - Bardic Circle at WitchVox - Free Music from TWV

Vox Central: About TWV - Wren: Words, Wrants and Wramblings - Guest Rants - Past Surveys - A Quest for Unity

Weekly Updates: Click HERE for an index of our weekly updates for the past 6 years

W.O.T.W. - World-Wide Networking

Your Town: A Link to YOUR Area Page (The largest listing of Witches, Pagans, Heathens and Wiccans on the Planet)

VoxLinks: The Pagan Web: 8,000 Listings

Your Witchvox Account: Log in Now - Create New Account - Request New Password - Log in Problems

Personal Listings: Pagan Clergy in Your Town - Adult Pagans - Young Pagans - Military Pagans

Events: Circles, Gatherings, Workshops & Festivals

Covens/Groups/Orgs: Local Groups Main Page

Other LOCAL Resources: Local Shops - Regional Sites - Local Notices - Global/National Notices - Local Skills & Services - Local Egroups - Political Freedom Fighters

Pagan Shopping: Online Shops Index - Original Crafters Sites - Auction Sites - Pagan Wholesalers - Pagan Local Shops

Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2018 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.

Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.

Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wren’s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witches’ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.

Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.

Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.