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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 10,098,861  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Work For, What Is Considered An International Company,intel. Today We... Sep 15th. at 1:19:23 pm UTC

Syl (Rio Rancho, New Mexico US) Age: 39 - Email


I work for, what is considered an international company, Intel. Today we had a bomb threat. As it was on Tuesday, as I sat there in shock looking at what was going on in New York through the eyes of TV, I had the rush of all those emotions rush through me again. All the "could have, would have" talk is not going to do any good today. But as many people feel, I too feel rage, hurt, helplessness, and wish it was all a bad dream. I think of all those people everyday and will for the rest of my life here on our sweet mother earth, and shed tears, it seems on an hourly basis. Some may call me too emotional, but show me one who can indure such sadness and not shed tears and then I will stop!
We must all try not to put too much anger in our feelings. I hear so many people say what we should do, and how we should go in and drop bombs, but please remember we also must think of those that are not at fault in that country as well. We have the ability to make choices, lets make right ones. We have lost so many loved ones, lets not add someone elses loved ones in anger. We have to stand and support eachother and what our president is doing. Send him good energy and pray he makes the right choices. Send up energy to protect our troops, our country, our loved ones. Pray for all those who are personally touched by this attack, and give them love they so much need at this time.
If we do go to war, by all means we may need to help our troops and call on some help, or what I would call back up. We do have energy that we can call on at times of war, but please be careful to control it and use it wisely, especially those that are younge and are not experience in the powers we are able to call on.
Finally, I agree that we need to have a calling of energy and would like to do my part, and be as one. So if anyone has or knows of any spacific time and day, please let me know, I would be more than willing and proud to join you from my little spot on mother earth.

Love and Light to all,

Syl


Who Wants To Get Together In The Dc Area? When? Today Is... Sep 15th. at 1:47:50 pm UTC

krystal vision (Alexandria, Virginia US) Age: 32 - Email


Who wants to get together in the DC area? When? Today is Saturday, 9-15. If anyone knows of an open gathering that we can attend, please email me...
k1331@yahoo.com
KV


Its Taken 4 Days For The Realisation Of The Terrible Events In... Sep 15th. at 2:32:46 pm UTC

zoe lavender (Tunbridge Wells, England UK) Age: 30 - Email


Its taken 4 days for the realisation of the terrible events in NYC to sink in. every morning i have woken up since the tragedy thinking it was a bad dream but then reality hits me and with a heavy heart i make my way to the ambulance station where i work thinking of the people who have lost their lives and loved ones, and the children....... i just cant find the words. i feel helpless and guilty - we were bickering at work over something completely trivial - while my colleagues in the States lost their lives helping others. i want to be there helping out, i feel i should be there. What happens now? i fear for the future of the planet and for us, Her guests. i have read that many of us are meditating for america but each time i try this those wretched tears come. Giving blood was good, it made me feel positive for the first time since the tragedy and i urge everyone who can to get down to your local blood shop and donate some blood. And to the people who are grieving, to the lost souls and to my colleagues who have the terrible job of searching through the rubble, i am thinking of you constantly.

love and bleesings

zoe lavender of Rusthall, KENT, England


I Heard A Very Sick Caller On Npr This Morning In Regards... Sep 15th. at 2:33:30 pm UTC

Knight Hawk (Fairview Heights, Illinois US) Age: 25 - Email


I heard a very sick caller on NPR this morning in regards to the recent events that have occured. The caller stated that we should just let the events of the past week slide. Her rationalization was that it was perhaps and isolated event, and that if we were to ignore the incidents that it would deny the terrorists the very thing they are looking for, continued violence.

Well, let me shed a little light. This is not an isolated incident:

1. Kobar Towers

2. Twin Embassies in Africa and Tanzenia

3. USS Cole

4. Trade Center Bombing (#1)

5. Trade Center Destruction (#2)
Each of these acts (in random order) have increased in audacity, destruction, and death. This latest incident was extremely audacious and killed several thousand people. Now it has been reported for many years that Chemical Warfare is inexpensive and easy to produce. Not to menion many rougue states have nuculear weapons. What do you think will be the next big audacious attack? LA? Houston? Seattle? St. Louis? Your home?

No ladies and gentlemen, this is NOT the time to sit idle. The perpetrators of these many tragic crimes must be brought to justice. This cycle must be stopped, and if that means war, then so be it!

We can not continue to use God as an excuse to kill other people. We stopped that attitude in the US by ending slavery and all but nuetering the KKK's demonstration rights. Hate groups are criminalized and demonized in the US, why not push that philosophy on a global scale. Hale Allah! For Muslim's your God is as great as any other. It's the extremests who twist that faith into dark areas that leave stains on the religions of the worlds.


Wicca And Deathmany Times I'm Amazed At The Western World's Obsession... Sep 15th. at 2:46:22 pm UTC

Daven (Nashville, Tennessee US) Age: 33 - Email


Wicca and Death

Many times I'm amazed at the Western world's obsession with death. So many times I see intelligent people who are arguably at the peak of their lives reduced to emotional children by the death of a loved one that it still surprises me.

There are times that I find this crippling to be a crime.

Every day, I see ads which will allow the user of these products to extend their lifespan, to live longer, to live fuller, to cure this problem or that problem. I see news stories that talk about how dangerous this thing is, or that that action causes cancer and so on that I want to scream.

Thank the Gods we of Wicca aren't like that. Or are we?

I have known Wiccans to be so devastated by loss as to forget everything they learned and go into that same state of non-functioning that it amazes me. Here is a group that has learned the secrets of life and death, know the wonders of the universe, have finally answered those questions of why we are here, and where we go after. But present them with a death and most, if not all, of that training goes flying out the window.

Oh, we know that our loved one is now in the Summerlands, looking down on us and waiting for us. There are no (thankfully) Hells for our dearly departed to burn in as punishment for their humanity here. But for some reason, we forget all that when a loved one dies, be they a parent, child, friend, puppy, cat or what have you.

Why is this necessary? Is it because we have forgotten these lessons that we are taught? Could it be that we are actually mourning for ourselves? Will we miss them?

I think it is a combination of all of these.

Primarily, we must understand that Wicca is a NATURE-affirming religion, rather than a life-affirming religion. In that I think is the major difference.

Death is part of life. No one has *ever* gotten out of life alive. Even Jesus died. He was resurrected, but he still died first. Death is a natural part of life, it is the last affirmation of life. It is the goal for many, especially those in their declining years. It is a state, no more devastating than a trip to the showers for sports players.

Our loved ones have not died. They are still alive, whole and healthy on another plane, the Astral Plane, with the Gods and with everyone they loved. Do we mourn when a family member moves to another city to scout out the location before we move there? No. That's silly, because we know that they are safe and waiting for us.

It's the same with death. They are not dead, for nothing can destroy that which makes them unique, they still retain all that they are, and they remember us and will be with us again. They are hanging around us, waiting for us to join them in the Summerlands. They still love us, and care for us and are anxiously awaiting the time when they can be with us again, either in another body, or when we die. The only thing that is different is that we can't see them or touch them in the flesh any longer.

But why is that? Their body ceased to function, but through some magickal skills, like Astral Projection, we can be with them again. We can see and talk to them, kind of like a telephone call when our spouse went out of town.

Now, before someone accuses me of being uncaring, I will state that I will be devastated when my wife dies. I have come to depend on having her near me, being able to see and touch and smell her, seeing her sitting on the toilet, talk to her, spend time with her. Yes, I will miss that, but I will also adjust.

See, I know that I shall see her again. She will be waiting for me with open arms. She may have a bit of a wait however. I don't plan on dying for quite some time to come. Hopefully, neither does she.

So, if death is a natural conclusion of being alive, why are we STILL so scared of it? Mostly because we will miss our loved one. Well, let me give you some stories that happened to me.

Once the fear of death is overcome, all death becomes nothing more than a reason to get dressed up and see our relatives. There is no sorrow for the one that passed away, only joy in some senses, and a waiting. I know this for a fact because I have lost all of my grandparents in the last decade, and I have yet to feel sorrow for their passing.

Yes, I did feel bad and cry at one point for my grandmother. I loved her dearly and I can never repay that which she taught me. I can pass it along however, which is one purpose of this journal. However, the only time I cried was when I heard "Leader of the Band" by Dan Fogelberg. It reminded me just how much I owe my Grandmother and how I can NEVER repay her for what she gave me.

But, everyone was concerned about me at the funeral. I showed no emotion that one would consider "appropriate" to the occasion. I didn't cry, I didn't exhibit any sorrow or sadness, nothing of the sort. I was somewhat upbeat and cheerful, I tried to help everyone else with their sorrow.

My grandfather's death was even better or worse, depending on your point of view. I didn't even cry at his funeral, and you would think that I would have. I had been living with him for the past two years, sharing his house, talking to him, learning from him and gaining a respect for him that I did not have in the preceding 31 years.

Before anyone thinks that I'm emotionally bent, I cried like a baby when my dog died when I was 15. I also didn't bury my emotions and reactions either. I have since tried to evoke sorrow and sadness for their passing, and it simply isn't there.

Why do I share this? Because of the mindset that I developed from Wicca. It taught me that death is another stage, like graduation from a grade in school. Nothing more. It took the reason that I would have had for being sorrowful away by giving me something that I did not have before, a sure knowledge that I will talk to them again.

You see, I already have talked to both of them, several times.

Through Astral Projection, I was able to reach both of them soon after they died and speak with them, find out what it was like being dead, and so on. I didn't have to say all the things I wanted to say and never got around to, they both already knew what I wanted to say. I told them anyhow, but they knew. I knew they knew, and everything was mitigated. I could face their deaths without falling apart into little emotional pieces that would take years to put together again. I spoke to them, and shared with them, showed them my love for them, and they showed me their love of me. My grandmother even called me her son, the son of her heart. She had practically raised me when I was under 10.

The purpose of this article is not to open up old wounds about past loved ones. It is to remind everyone reading it that this life is transitory, it is designed that way. This is not our true existence, nor is it our only life. The other life we have without our mortal shell is so much greater than we can comprehend that it scares me. All those we love will be with us, in fact, they never leave us. They are around you, right now, looking at what you are reading, seeing what your life is like and expressing their opinions.

All it takes from you is listening and thinking about them, and hearing in your head what they are saying to you. Nothing can kill them, all that happens is they shed one suit of clothes for another. Like taking off the jeans and T-shirt and putting on a formal outfit to go to a ball.

Remember this, visit them, listen to them, be with them, love them. They are always still around you.

© Daven, 2001 No part of this document may be used without the express, written consent of the author. Email me at Daven@priest.com


Paradox And Surrealism Echo In My Spirit And The Voice In My... Sep 15th. at 2:47:30 pm UTC

Taelon (New York, New York US) Age: 51


Paradox and surrealism echo in my spirit and the voice in my head I have learned to manage.

I live in New York I heard the first plane and saw the second plane crash..and ....I am tired of the retelling. I find myself seeking world peace more agressively and maybe to have that... we do need to take on the shadow destroyers who would dare to call themselves soldiers in the name of allah or whatever....someone has twisted their minds and confused their teachings.... but why not?... even some of our christian leaders point fingers and say that because we are not christians we are responsible for the "lords" vengeance..that seems to me... to be..more of the same positionality as the madmen who slaughter innocent people. It would seem that the nature of humanity as a whole is to further one's personal adgenda on whatever corpse seems to be handy.
As a wiccan I do not recruit therefore any personal adgenda would seem to further "do what you will and harm none" thus nurturing someone or something. There is no way that that..is against any gods of either gender of any country of any race
I am an American and more than proud of it. Though I do not say that I am better than ...I say I am different than...tuesday night as helicopters arrived in NYC bringing trained teams to aide in the recovery efforts I was kept awake with their roar and jet screams as they flew overhead. Yes I felt invaded and yes I was happy to have them...on wedesday morning after a little complaining about the loss of sleep we realised that there are countries where sounds of war and the stench of death is an every day and every night occurence. Just how good we have it became much clearer.

Okay some neighborhoods are war zones...perpetuated by the recruitment of gangs to hold and or take turf and sell whatever ....guns drugs sex...that is their choice

Yes I have always felt safe here in America and now I dont.. but maybe that is a condition we need to live in to better understand others and no longer take for granted what we have as a result of two hundred years plus of blood and sweat that has brought us to today.It is democracy that allows us to celebrate our faith our beliefs..As wiccans we know the millions who died under the inquisition and the blind cause of the churchs prejudice that carried out an extermination of people and knowledge that the world will never recover from. The Nazis and Jewish people have a similar history...

So I guess to take up the gauntlet and give up being the nice guy and bring light where their is darkness even if it takes the fires of hell to bring light into the dark might just be what it will take..

BB I have taken to daily random acts of kindness for no apparent reason.

One act each day..

try it you will feel better.

Taelon


When I Turned My Tv On Tuesday Night And Found Out About... Sep 15th. at 2:47:48 pm UTC

Vanessa (Ramstein, Gilbert Islands) Age: 26


When I turned my TV on Tuesday night and found out about the terrible attacks that happened in New York City & Washington D.C., I was horrified and extremely upset. I woke up several times that night with these awful pictures of destruction in my head. My thoughts remain with the victims and survivors of Tuesday's attack on the United States.
But when I read today that President Bush declared, ŇweŐre at warÓ I was terrified once again. According to a recent survey nine out of ten Americans are in favor of a military attack even if it involves shedding blood and loosing lives. HavenŐt we learned anything from TuesdayŐs attack? Violence cannot be fought with counter violence. IsnŐt that what we were taught as children? I strongly believe attacking any Arabian nation will not solve the problems we are facing. The horrible acts of violence that happened this past week are already a reaction to unsolved problems from the past. For the past decades the Arabian people have been suppressed. For example the Palestinians are suppressed by their Jewish neighbors; they turn off their water supply & want to take their land... And for as long as the United States supports countries like Israel suppressing their Arabian neighbors, the terror in this world will not stop. And throwing missiles will surely not put an end to the violence, which America experienced first hand earlier this week, it will only fuel it.


When I Did My Candle Lighting Ritual, I Had Three Candles--one... Sep 15th. at 2:52:03 pm UTC

Rhiannon Goldbear (Fort Walton Beach, Florida US) Age: 36


When I did my candle lighting ritual, I had three candles--one each for healing, peace, and justice. They all burned down in exactly that order.

While I know this is the road we should take, our fellow Americans (and the US Government) see it differently. I wish it would be different, but humankind for the most part has acted this way for thousands of years and I don't see it stopping overnight.

Please encourage unity and peace among all the peoples...no matter what religious, ethnic, or other background they are. And send protection to the US military forces--including myself as a member--who will be called upon soon to fight and die for this.

Blessings to all who are raising energy for the healing and peace of the Earth!!


I Humbley Ask That The White/green Witchs And Magicians That Can... Sep 15th. at 3:03:00 pm UTC

Mark Slone (West Chicago, Illinois US) Age: 45


I humbley ask that the White/Green witchs and magicians that can, please go to the building that houses the Black Cult of Skull and Bones and perform the banishing rituals. Cleanse the human bones there of the shadow power that the individuals in power of this country have used to further their power lust. Take Geronimos skull to his people so that his medicene men can perform their banishing rites. Here in the US we can do something about the dark shadow forces that are in power. Our Magic can affect other areas in the world, but we need to really cleanse here at home.
May the Gods and Goddesses protect us.
Blessed Be, Coyotemoon


So Many Posts To Read, And It Took Me So Long To... Sep 15th. at 3:43:05 pm UTC

Marian (Richland, Washington US) Age: 49


So many posts to read, and it took me so long to think to come and look for a forum here, dispite my love of this site - I'm sorry I won't have the time to read them all. Several here have commented that they feel excluded from community expressions of grief and worship. It's true that our mode of worship is pretty much non-existent in these events. But then, what is one to do with a large diverse public group? I feel strongly that we must, as pagans, both practice our own faith and respect the rights of others to practice theirs. Knowing that stress brings out the need for religious expression in folks and that most of the folks around us are Christian, it seems to me that my faith calls me to share in the experiences of grief and prayer with those in my community even though those expressions will be wrapped in concepts of worship different from my own. It's particularly important to practice tolerance and acceptance right now, I think. As a pagan, that's what I feel the Goddess is calling me to do.

I also feel that She is calling me to speak up in protest to expressions of exclusion and intolerance from those around me, in order to promote peace. I teach psychology in a mid-western university. And, of course, Tuesday has been a topic of conversation in my classes. As expected, someone expressed the viewpoint that all of this has to do with the "disintegration" of Christianity in the U.S. and that she so much appreciates our President's call to (Christian) prayer. It was a prefect opportunity to point out that, yes, approximately 82% of the country is Christian, but that 18% is of many other faiths and that all faiths are shaken and reaching for understanding right now. The right to worship (or not) as we each see fit is a precious freedom. Our ability to come together in the midst of both diversity tragedy and to pray together or offer our positive thoughts while respecting the fact that we have different views of faith is one of the things that makes this country strong. Our leaders are calling us to prayer as a diverse nation united in grief that surmounts our differences. The nods of agreement and mumurs of support during my little soap box speech were ever so heartening! I'm grateful to the Goddess for giving me the opportunity to appeal for peace, to point out that the need for peace extends beyond Christian, and for giving so many of my Christian students the opportunity to express support for those same opinions.

Out of adversity may we, as a nation, find strength and tolerance.
Within adversity may we, as pagans, find new ways to promote peace in
both our faith and our secular communities.

Blessed Be to all......


Thank You, Fritz & Wren For Providing This Space For Us To Share... Sep 15th. at 3:43:36 pm UTC

Babajji (Holly Hill, Florida US) Age: 51 - Email


Thank you, Fritz & Wren for providing this space for us to share our feelings and thoughts. In reading through the posts, I feel proud to live in a country where all may share their diverse opinions.

I am a Unitarian Universalist. Sunday, our church was to have celebrated the Autmn Equinox under my guidance. I have scrapped this event and created a Memorial service in it's place. Speakers from the Christian, Humanist and Buddhist perspective will share their reflections along with mine. I am so blessed to have a church to go to where all can freely practice their individual faith, and respect the faith of others.

I wanted to share the reflections I will be presenting there, as they were written after reading all of your reflections on this list, and many of your posts helped me put the words to how I am feeling.

Blessed Be,
Barbara Jean/babajji

To give a definitive statement of the Pagan point of view is impossible. We are as diverse in our reaction to this holocaust as any other religious organization. I have heard Christians who plead that we pray for peace and forgiveness in the name of Jesus, others have taken up the chant "Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition". So it is as well with Pagans and Wiccans. Many of us, myself included, are torn between both emotions, As practicing Witches, we have learned to work with the powers of the universe, and have the ability to affect the outcome of this situation, as do all of us, of all religions, with our prayers to any of our Dieties. Therefore we must search our hearts before taking any action through spellwork and prayer. When we ask our Gods & Goddesses for assistance, They will do exactly what we ask. "Be careful what you ask for".

A condensed version of the Wiccan Rede is "Bide the Wiccan laws we must, in Perfect Love, and Perfectt Trust. Mind the threefold law you should, three times bad and three times good. An ye harm none, do as ye will'".

How to follow this law in light of this malevolent attack on the American people becomes is a matter for extensive soul searching. To send out energies of retribution from a heart filled with hate would be be to invite chaos. These energies would return threefold, raining more death and destruction on our world. Sending out energies of Peace & Love should be the priority of all who pray. But is it enough? Are there enough beleivers in the power of the collective conciousness to effect a peaceful outcome to this grevious situation? I think that, unfortunately, there are not. The world would already be at peace if there were. But I also beleive that the spells and prayers for peace that are given now will make a dIference in the severity of the outcome.

As Wiccans, we believe in reincarnation, that death is a symbol of rebirth and new life. Some, as I do, also adhere to the beleif that the path of your life on earth was chosen by you before you came here, including the time and method of your death.

After searching my soul, I offer this blessing;

To those that those who have passed through the veil to the Summerlands, I send prayers of gratitude for the time they shared with us here on earth, and know that their purpose here has been fulfilled.

To those who have lost family & freinds, I send energies of comfort for their loss, may they find joy in the rememberance of the time they shared with their loved ones.

To all of us, who are struggling to deal with the reality of the events that have come to pass, I send energies of Peace and Hope, May we overcome the fear and greif this tradgedy has brought us. May we maintain our acceptance of the rights of all humanity to live and worship as they wish, and not succumb to directing our anger towards the innocent.

To those who are involved in the rescue effort, and those who will undertake the sad duty of cleaning up the rubble, I send energes of strength, May they know our love and gratitude is with them.

To our American President, his advisors, and to all World Leaders, I send energies of wisdom and clarity. May their decisions be just, and may they weigh the consequences of their actions very heavily before proceeding.

To those who serving in the armed forces that will be involved in carrying out the decisions of The President and the World Leaders, I send energies of courage, and heartfelt gratitude for their willingness to lay down their lives in defense of not only our American freedom, but the freedom of the world.
In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust, I will leave it to the God & Goddess to see that the threefold law comes to pass on those involved in this horrifying attack.

So Mote it be.


Rae Beth Put It Best....may I Never Feel The Need To... Sep 15th. at 4:00:42 pm UTC

QuieT Cha0s (Toronto, Ontario CA) Age: 27 - Email


Rae Beth put it best....
May I never feel the need to warn or advise... unasked

As Nostradamus puts it.. this is the beginning of the end, the end being "as we now know it" apparently, this attack is just the beginning, much more death is to come still, and while I feel the sorrow of the loss of life this civilization is starting to feel, and will continue to feel, I know in my heart and soul it is needed for the world to become a better place (we will learn from our mistakes)

Blessed Be


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