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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,821,282  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 129

Lurker/Post Ratio: 254 to 1

Question of the Week: 12 - 10/23/2000

Pagan Choice for the y2k US Election

This week's Pagan Perspective question is a redux of one that we asked about at the beginning of August... And we apologize in advance to our non-United States readers that we have again brought up an issue that is rather exclusive to just one country, but feel free to comment on the shenanigans of the American political system as you see it.) Which political platform or candidate are you leaning towards? Have you made up your mind or changed your mind? Will you vote and who-if you don't mind telling the world-are you planning to vote for? Why have you made this particular choice?

 Reponses:   There are 129 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Continue To Be Amazed By The Number Of Pagans Who Don't... Oct 26th. at 12:23:27 pm UTC

Andraste (New York, New York US) Age: 35


I continue to be amazed by the number of Pagans who don't think that religious freedom is worth voting for.

How can anyone who is serious enough about their religion to come to this web site even think about voting for Bush? As for voting Green. Do that in local elections where it might do some good rather than harm !

A President can only do so much without the backing of Congress, but what he can do and will do if he's Bush is turn the Supreme Court right wing and pro-Christian.

The rest can change, the rest is subject to public opinion, the state of the economy and the will of Congress.

To anyone who says "Don't worry, it can't happen here" I say, WAKE UP and look at the world around you. Look at the Balkans, I'm sure people there said it could never happen. Look at Israel right now. Look at history, how many times has it happened before? Freedom is something that has to be fought for and guarded carefully.

George W Bush can NOT be trusted. He must NOT be permitted to get into the White House. He must NOT be given the power to take away our freedom. Remember as far as he is concerned we do not have the right to religious freedom because we do not have a real religion !


Having Been To All The "home Pages" Of The Assorted Candidates, I... Oct 26th. at 2:44:37 pm UTC

Rev. Catherine M. Wagner (Minneapolis, Minnesota US) Age: 31 - Email


Having been to all the "Home Pages" of the assorted candidates, I have to say that I am convinced that Gore is the best of a poor lot of candidates.

They all have plans for different issues that I can't agree with on a personally ethical standpoint.

Bush - well, his first strike is his view on Witchcraft. There are other issues, but that's the major one. His mudslinging, his reliance on his "father" as a supposed political positive - I mean really, just because his father was President at one time doesn't mean that HE would make a good President. His reliance on that past history just seems to me to be either a blind distraction (hey...look here, that way you won't see what I'm doing over here) or a sign of major insecurity in his own political background. I certainly don't trust him to appoint new Superior Court judges.

Gore - While I can agree with some of his political views, his "expansion of government" theme while claiming he's planning on reducing costs makes me feel like I'm going to be feeling his Presidency in my pocketbook. I'd be a little more comfortable with him appointing Superior Court judges, but I'm a little worried about his integrity.

Nader (Green) - While on the outside he looks good, and a positive force - some of his ways of dealing with issues are draconian. I'm not comfortable with the thought of being told my responsibility from an outside force, nor with being told what I can say, how I can say it, or how often I can say it. While I may not trust Corporate America to live up to their responsibilities, as a potential business owner, I cannot see that his policies would do anything but bankrupt the country while he takes away our freedoms "for the public good." I feel his intentions are in the right place, but his means are just plain scary. Plus, the fact that he exults in the fact that 40% of those that will vote for him come from the Gore camp, which obviously leans the Presidency toward Bush. He knows he will probably not get the presidency, and the implication that if he can't have it, he wants Bush to have it, frankly scares me on the religious front.

Browne (Libertarian) - Nearly ALL of this man's policies scare the living crap out of me. His conviction that if you deregulate business and society, that we will be better off is frankly too idealistic and optimistic for words. Corporate America has proven time and again that they are not willing to be responsible for their actions unless forced to be - and that they are more than willing to suborn local leaders in order to evade those responsibilities. He is, in essence, the exact opposite of Nader - too permissive.

Buchanan (Reform) - Well, what can I say about him. Should I point out his religious stance? His isolationist xenophobia? His utter conviction that all that is evil about America can be laid strictly at the feet of those people who want "progress and peace"?? He's not worth my time.

Hagelin (Alt. Reform Party/Natural Law Party/Independent) - He's nearly as good of a choice as Gore, but my concern here comes down to, if I vote for him, am I allowing Bush to win over Gore?

Howard Phillips (Constitution Party) - All I can say is that he's a really bad cross between Buchannan and Browne. Again, scary. Pro-gun, Anti-abortion, isolationist. His only positive trait is his views on the IRS/Taxes - and even that one could use work.

So...I'm currently stuck between Hagelin and Gore, but I'm fairly sure that Gore will end up with my vote.

I'm just tired of having to pick the least evil out of a bad lot.


Yes, Here We Are Again Having To Choose Between The Lesser Of... Oct 26th. at 3:07:00 pm UTC

Spyder (Forest Lake, Minnesota US) Age: 32 - Email


Yes, here we are again having to choose between the lesser of two evils. The lesser of these particular two evil I believe to be Gore, and he will be getting my vote this November.
When I first heard of GW Bush, my first thoughts were, "if he becomes president, i'm moving to a different country". I never dreamed that statement would come so close to becoming a real possibility.

Frankly, I'm scared.
I am afraid of losing my right to believe what I believe in with out the threat of being burned, I am afraid of losing my right to terminate a pregancy if I so choose, I am afraid of losing my right to prevent pregancy, and i am also afraid of losing my right to fall in love with whomever I do, whether male or female.
Someday we might get to vote for a cadidate who stands for what we really believe in, but come November I will be voting to keep the small things that I already have.

This election I am voting out of fear.


I Am A Pagan Teen, And Altough This Is About People Who... Oct 26th. at 3:53:47 pm UTC

Jasmyn Flootman (Eustis, Florida US) Age: 15 - Email


I am a pagan teen, and altough this is about people who are voting and I obviously am too young to vote, I would like the world to know that many teens do care about politics; and many of us are pagan. I have been following the elections, and I think it is just sad that things are so senior-citizen oriented. No offense to the elderly generation; you have just as many and maybe more rights to a great life as we do. But there are no candidates that are really taking a major stand on this issue. Clinton promised many things orr education and I don't know about schools around the country; all I know is that my school and every other school I have been to in Florida needs funding desperately. Who will stand for us?


This Election I Am Voting To Protect My Second Ammendment Rights. Once... Oct 26th. at 4:03:04 pm UTC

john (effort, Pennsylvania US) Age: 44


This election I am voting to protect my second ammendment rights. Once those are secure, no one can take my fourth ammendment rights away.


I Support Gore. The Most Important Reason For Doing So Is Reproductive... Oct 26th. at 7:13:25 pm UTC

Rahela (Houston, Texas US) Age: 20


I support Gore. The most important reason for doing so is reproductive rights. As a Dianic, I believe the choice of whether to keep or terminate a pregnancy is a sacred choice that must be left up to individual women. We have had enough of the patriarchy controlling women's bodies!

Pro-Child Pro-Family Pro-Choice

The other important issues are freedom of religion and the enviroment. Gov. Bush has made it clear that he opposes all non-Christian religions; Wicca he does not even consider a "real" religion. Along with Rep. Bob Barr, he wants to take away the freedom of religion from Pagans enlisted in the millitary. He is presumptuos enough to ask a soldier to die to protect the freedon of religion of others only.

As a resident of Houston, TX I know how bad Bush's enviromental policy is. Houston recently bypassed Los Angeles as the US city with lowest air quality. Many mornings, it is hard to breathe or see.

Please consider these things when voting.

Blessed Be. )0(


For Those Of You Who Are Voting For Gore Because You Are... Oct 26th. at 8:13:18 pm UTC

Andele (Chicago, Illinois US) Age: 32


For those of you who are voting for Gore because you are pro-choice I'd like to point out that his pro-choice stance is as thin as rice paper ... he voted to approve Justice Antonin Scalia to the supreme court and has been quoted as saying that the rights of the mother to control her body does not always override the right of the fetus.

I am voting for Nader, but I am living in a state where Bush has conceeded and shut his campaign offices down. I think its worth using my vote to build a Green party since a million dead people vote Democrat in Chicago every year :)

I can understand why most pagans would vote for Gore, esp in states more likely to swing. However consider ... if Gore gets elected will we be as vigilent in seeing our rights stay protected ... or will we assume that he will do the job for us.

Whoever you vote for ... democracy doesn't end on election day. Stay involved and informed!


I Have Voted For Ralph Nader On My Mail In Ballot. I... Oct 26th. at 8:44:55 pm UTC

Joyce Spieles (Portland, Oregon US) Age: 53 - Email


I have voted for Ralph Nader on my mail in ballot. I could not feel good about voting for Gore and Bush was out of the question. Gore is dishonest and is just as indebted to the large corporations as Bush. I really care about our environment and don't feel that either Gore or Bush are in touch with how at risk the environment is in the new millenium. Action must be taken now to clean up our crimes against the planet and prevent further destruction. Gore is too slow in carrying out any promises and Bush is just plain destructive. They are both caught up in a power struggle based on money as the ultimate god.
Nader is the only reasonable and intelligent alternative at this time and I want an alternative. If we don't set clear goals for what we want we will never get it. Not only that but we will lose what we still have. We have lost more than we have gained in my lifetime. The environment is dying and we and our children are dying with it. We take in so many poisons from the environment daily that our health is being destroyed. We can't wait to repair the damage until we study the results. There may be no one and nothing left by the end of the study.
Changes must start now. My vote is to demonstrate what I want and to show I have no faith in the Democrats or the Republicans to do anything positive.


I Am Voting For Harry Browne Of The Libertarian Party. Why? The... Oct 26th. at 11:44:23 pm UTC

GypsyPagan (Delmar, Maryland US) Age: 25 - Email


I am voting for Harry Browne of the Libertarian Party. Why? The Libertarians are the only party that truly want to get Government OUT of our personal lives and let us live the way we choose. The Libertarian philosophy recognizes that adults have minds of thier own, and should be allowed to make their own choices, and their own mistakes. The government is not there to baby-sit us, or to save us from ourselves. It has no right to make our choices for us.
"But, Why waste your vote on a third party candaite who has no real chance of winning?" you ask. I'll tell you: Because Voting is like magic...It is a way to effect change. We didn't let people tell us "Magic isn't real", we tried it, and it works. Voting for a third party tells the other two parties that they's better change their ways. Every vote for a third party this year gets them closer to national recognition, and closer to the office the next time they run. And hey, you never know, if enough people decide to vote for what they REALLY want this year, Harry might just make it.
Remember--The Lesser of two evils is still Evil.
And if you keep voting the way you've always voted, you will keep getting what you've always gotten.

Blessings, and change for the better,
GypsyPagan


It Is Amazing How Much Religion Plays A Role In Us Politics... Oct 27th. at 7:33:26 am UTC

Michael (Dublin, European Union, Ireland) Age: 23 - Email


It is amazing how much religion plays a role in US politics, have people not learnt from the thousands of years of human civilization??
America was considered during the last two centuries to be fairly liberal amoungst nations, but definately more liberal for some citizens than for others (please remember that the slave trade went on much longer than in the British Empire which abolished the slave trade around 1815, and the US treatment of the Natives was exceptionally barbaric for the time), but as a whole the US has grown from a loosely united group of sometimes lawless colonies to a respected nation and perhaps even a force for the good.

But I don't think we Europeans realised how much a volatile topic religion has become in the US. Religion and politics is something Western nations have for the most part got out of their system over a century ago. What is now happening in the US is a step backwards, I find myself most fortunate that in Europe we have become extremely liberal with regard to social policy, mostly as Facism was a real threat that had to be militarily defeated only 55 years ago (and still lingered nearby in the for of the Soviet Union), and while the US helped the British Empire/Commonwealth and the Soviet union to defeat the Axis powers, there was no real immediate threat to the US mainland and its freedom, and as such it has never really suffered at the hands of tyranny or really been directly threathened by it. This results in a lapse of vigilance, and perhaps the establishment needs be careful that it does not take personal freedom for granted!

For Europe the result is that there are many safeguards to protect citizens rights, things are not perfect but the laws are there and they are observed... politicans are not elected to interpret the law, that is not their job, the House of Lords/ Supreme court is there to interpret the law.

In conclusion, don't be trampeled by your president, he is there to represent you even if you don't vote for him. He is head of state, and as such is responcible for each and every one of your citizens and their wellbeing... he's not there to help just his friends and supporters.

Well that is how someone outside


I Lean Towards Libertarian But Am A Realist Who Worries About Our... Oct 27th. at 10:35:02 am UTC

Seeker (Tonopah, Nevada US) Age: 50 - Email


I lean towards Libertarian but am a realist who worries about our future. Consider me wierd (at least at first glance) but I will vote Bush/Cheney. I wish to live out my life as a free Witch and see a country which will allow my children and grandchildren to do the same. I don't want more government, nor more taxes nor any more prevarications or distortions of the truth, which we have endured for the past 8 years. I am self-employed and see 46% of my money going to the federal government, plus another chuck to state and local. I have seen too many of my precious constitutional rights evaporate, especially the right to defend myself, family and property. Does this sound red-neck? Think about what our founding fathers guaranteed us, including the right to worship as we wish. then think about how those rights have been eroded of late.
So, I'll vote for the lesser of the evils.


The Choice Is Painfully Obvious. Al Gore Is The Only Canidate. Fom... Oct 27th. at 10:54:40 am UTC

Ceredice (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania US) Age: 29


the choice is painfully obvious. Al Gore is the only canidate. Fom my research I have found that he intends to uphold our right of free religious belief, a woman's right to choose (abortion issue)and to maintain the more recent policies such as Pagan relegions accepted in the millitary and allowing pagans to acknowledge their holidays as acceptable time off from work and/or school. These views are a far cry from Bush who does not acknowledge my religion, hinders my gender and has been qouted as saying that he will revoke the current military policy concerning religion. By the Goddess and as a proud American I can not allow George W. Bush to take the office of President! Please, all of you, even if you have never voted prior to this election, do so now, our religion, our way of life is at stake. Blessed Be to all and a very happy Samhain. Ceredice, 3rd degree Wiccan


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