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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,832,803  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 153

Lurker/Post Ratio: 214 to 1

Question of the Week: 95 - 1/19/2003

How Do You Feel About War?

‘Yes I'm talking about this war dance/ A patriotic romance./And I know all you poets/Have seen it all before…’ – Colin Moulding, XTC

Colin: ‘The words were originally prompted by the Falklands War in 1982. But it was too much on one piece of history. Then along came the Persian Gulf War and I put the revised lyrics to a new piece of music. It was time to bring war out of the closet again.’


And again, it would seem. How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?

Do your political leanings influence how you feel?

Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?

 Reponses:   There are 153 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Let Us Think About This ... Jan 22nd. at 9:06:57 pm UTC

American Pagan (Missouri) Age: 26 - Email


There are many questions that need to be answered. Why did the US government give weapons to Saddam durring the Iraq war with Iran? Why did US government help install a dictator in Iran and fuel this conflict further? Why did the US give Saddam permission to obtain a Kuwait oilfield and once he entered Iraq we went screaming into the gulf in the name of peace. Why did the US govt get involved with Kuwait and not Rowanda where thousands were murdered durring genecide? Why did the US government fabricate stories about Kuwait babies being thrown out of incubators by Iraq soldiers?

The reasoning that we should attack Iraq to boilster the economy is one of the sickest excuses I have ever heard. It is a disgrace to have brave American's forfeit their lives for money. As a Pagan I hold to harm none unless self defense is necessary. The UN inspectors are not done. Bush is'nt even waiting until they are done. There is no proof that Saddam poses a threat. And how do we expect the Iraq people to overthrow a dicatator if they have no food, clean water, or medical care?

Before Pagans bang the war drum, they need to remember our religion is one that teaches responsibility above all else. Take the time to listen to those who are in Iraq working with its people. Listen to their stories of starvation and disease caused by the sanctions. No one deserves that. Just because Pagans strive to observe the laws of nature by no means give us the right to prey on the weak of another nation. Harm None.

This has ceased to be a war on terrorism. A war to end events like 9/11. It has become a case of global greed and I will follow the idea of "The Truth Against the World" because what is popular isn't always right.


War. What Is It Good For? Jan 22nd. at 9:55:38 pm UTC

Coyo (Maine) Age: 33 - Email


Since I heard that the United States government had decided to pursue a course of action that would lead toward a war with Iraq, I began my fight. Yes, I am one of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who has become involved with the anti-war movement. Although finances and distance have kept me from going to Washington D.C., I was there in spirit.
This is not a war against Saddam Hussein. This is a war to take control of another country and to begin (or continue) on the U.S govt's path toward total world domination. Our "president" has been rumored to want to be "dictator for life", a thought, however fanciful, scares me silly. He and his cronies are interested in the oil in Iraq. And since sanctions have failed to either starve Hussein out or provoke an unprising, our government believes that we are forced into attacking a 3rd world country to get our way.
Oh, and 9/11? While it cannot be proven, I believe that our government had a hand in that somehow. The records are destroyed and the lives lost, but the truth will out, eventually. But the facts show that Afghanistan was blocking a major oil pipeline (being built by Haliburton, a company CEOed by our Vice President). Stand up against the U.S. and what do you get? You get levelled.
I urge all pagans, heathens and others to listen, look, read and think. The truth is out there. Don't listen to the mainstream media, they are controlled by the government and the big corporations. Ask yourself, "Would the god or goddess I worship want more innocents to die for greed?" I think that you will find the answer.
Blessed be
Pax Vobiscum
Coyo Desertbloom Link to More info related to this post -- HERE


The Time For Talk Has Ended, They're Getting Ready To Go! Jan 23rd. at 12:31:01 am UTC

Odin (Anacortes, WA) Age: 47 - Email


Greetings all,

As I reported in an earlier post, the Navy's Intruders (the first Military Aircraft that enter a military target) are buzzing the skies of Anacortes, WA as I type. And this is to report that it has been over 10 hours now since they started. The skies over Anacortes are like a War Zone. Clearly the time for talk has ended, and the time for action is just moments away. This War is going to happen. The proof is in the skies tonight over my peaceful City. I and my neighbors know that when the skies do get quiet it's because they are on their way.

(Here comes another Intruder!) They never practice at night like this, and in the rain, and let alone with such force of thrusting their powerful engines racing across the skies, some have even made my windows shake! Everytime an Intruder passes (here comes another one!!) you can't help but feel so very proud of our Military. The time for the People's Opinions and the Politicians Debates has absolutely concluded! The matter has now been given to our Military for they wouldn't be putting these aircraft in the dark and very dangerous rainy skies tonight (also placing us in danger of an accident) if not in prelude of a serious mission. For my neighbors and I, we understand that they are using the street lights of the City of Anacortes as target practice, preparing for their flight missions to Bagdad. And it doesn't matter if they keep this up all night because we are so very proud that our City is assisting in their training to take out ground-to-air missles in Bagdad. (Here comes another one, oh brother is this one traveling hard, and another one right behind the first, THEY JETS ARE LOUD!!, IT'S 9:25pm PST).

This is Odin, reporting from Anacortes, WA, with great pride of our City's use as Bagdad Target Practice for a now VERY REAL WAR that we are tonight experiencing in Anacortes, WA. And to all our Armed Forces may the Heavens be with you, and may each of you return home safely.

Odin


HARM NONE Jan 23rd. at 3:11:39 am UTC

lifeloving (earth) Age: 27 - Email


call yourself a wiccan? then why refute the one wiccan rede? all of the great teachers and truths in humanity's existence have taught one path - the path of peace. i am tired of so-called christians who declare war, in direct opposition to their teacher, a pacifist. no better are pagans who would harm when none has harmed them.


Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You?!?! Jan 23rd. at 3:20:53 am UTC

Shadowflame (Norwich) Age: 19 - Email


How can a bunch of christians go to war when they have a statement in the bible that says ' treat others as you would have them treat you '??!?!?!?

I really don't get it!

Are they saying they want Iraq to turn round and make war on them?


War As A Last Resort? Jan 23rd. at 6:17:39 am UTC

lilchickentoo (Washington state) Age: 56 - Email


War should be a last resort to protect our country/freedom/people. The real question to me is, "what is a 'last resort'"? I was born after WWII, was in kindergarten when the Korean War started, had to hide under my desk in the second grade for "atomic bomb drills", was in high school when the war in Vietnam started, and had just about given up on humanity when the Gulf War came along.....what is a LAST RESORT? We never wait long enough to find out. Should we wait? We waited too long before 9/11/01 and the Twin Towers fell down; the Pentagon was blitzed. But there's nothing to be gained by bombing Iraq except another feather in our cap (or scalp for our belt). And isn't that what war has come to be about? And if it is, wouldn't it be nice if we'd be honest about it? Sooner or later, if we don't stop wars completely, humans won't be around to contemplate the question....


Famous Words Jan 23rd. at 7:45:16 am UTC

Sloopz (Scotland) Age: 17 - Email


The thing i dont understand is how George W Bush do this. Even threating war is a breach of the UN rules.

Didnt a great american president say "Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind."

I have been ridiculed and banned from message boards for saying them as the owner cant understand that no matter when these words were said they are still true. This guy who banned me ill call him mr x is in the american air force and loves the idea of war he is to ignorant to see that war is wrong.


I Hate It Jan 23rd. at 12:08:21 pm UTC

Myrddin (wisconsin) Age: 55 - Email


I hate war. I've seen it, something many of you have NOT. However, wishing the world was a fluffy bunny place full of love and tolerance just isn't very realistic. It always amazes me that such a large segment of our society actually believes that. They wouldn't walk through some of our neighborhoods at night because they know thugs exist who would put a bullet in their head for the five bucks in their wallet, or rape the jogger just out of hatred and because they can. Yet, they seem to think no thugs exist beyond our borders. For crying out loud, there are NATIONS who conduct themselves as thugs. Saddam is one of them. Hatred exists.

We have the strongest, best equipped, and most professional military in the world. When Saddam and others say we are weak, do you really think they are talking about our military? They are talking about our society. They see the protests, they see the fluffy bunnies, and they think we are stupid, weak, and without the moral character to defend ourselves or risk our comforts for any principle including self defense. That gives them incentive to continue their thuggery.

Saddam, it turns out, was mere months away from having the bomb the last Gulf War. It's been over ten years. Do you really think he isn't close again? What oil fields did we keep last time? We could have just stayed in Kuwait and thumbed our noses at the world. Who was strong enough to take those oil fields away from us once we were there? You think Osama Bin Laden is the ONLY thug in the world? You think he's the only one who hates us? I guess you have forgotten how people all over the Middle East danced in the streets and partied when our citizens were burning up in the Towers, jumping from the windows, and being crushed when they fell. That's what Saddam calls our weakness.......our short sightedness and forgetfulness and our stupidity and inability to recognize the world for the place it is.

Lenin and Stalin called such folks "usefull idiots". People who through self delusion can't believe the reality and work against their own country to the benefit of those who would destroy their country.

Atta Boy Odin! Those are OUR sons and daughters. May they come home safe. They hate war too. Nobody who has seen it does NOT hate it. But they love their neighbors and their country more than their hatred for war and their wanting to just live life. Unlike some others.............


On The Fence Jan 23rd. at 12:26:54 pm UTC

Bruce Fraser (North east England) Age: 42 - Email


As much as I hate war, what do you do about nutters like Saddam? Methinks there's nowt to stop us heading over the top again. Oh, how I feel for the mothers of the bairns that're gonna lose their lives soon.

May the Goddess watch over them...

Bruce


I Have Many Unanswered Questions Jan 23rd. at 1:01:35 pm UTC

Heather (Northern Virginia) Age: 35 - Email


If asked about the situation with Iraq, I do not have enough information to assess the immediate need for military action. My opinion would be missing key ingredients and that would not be wise to share such a thing. Yet, by the same token, I do not have enough information to lend my trust and support to any one side. I have even less trust for those who would use manipulation to sway
my loyalties one way or another. I have the courage to patiently seek the answers and to remember that if I can not maintain my own peace then I will never be able to encourage it in others. I know my statements do not address the topic of war on a grand scale. The topic is too vast for me to do justice to here. I hope nothing I have said causes anyone to become upset because there is enough of that energy around already. Perhaps, I am naive but I do still hang on to hope for a non-violent solution on the global front.

Heather


If Britain Is The Place To Be........... Jan 23rd. at 1:11:28 pm UTC

Sourisette (Southern UK) Age: 73 - Email


Killing people never solved anything. The only way to resolve by violence would be to put Saddam and George Dubya in a room alone and let them fight it out. But if forces must be employed, since we are apparently willing hosts to asylum seekers, many of whom have proved unreliable, would it not be effective to offer them sanctuary only if they prove their good intent by putting on British uniform to go and fight against those who threaten the country they wish to make their home? Our men have already fought one war in the middle east and a conflict in the Falklands. Let these people show how brave and determined they are, - and they will have the chance to return "home" heroes.


Yes For Military Action.......... Jan 23rd. at 1:49:16 pm UTC

diesel (washington) Age: 46 - Email


we need to take military action against iraq.....aimed at saddam. it's silly to think that we can just let this go. after all..what if we had with hitler? and just name one time when just sitting around wishing the world was a happy place full of nothing but good people with good intentions EVER had a positive effect. there are no such instances.
and ,good grief, does being a pagan also mean that you are also a left wing liberal always? i am not ,but i seem to be in the minority here.
and all the stupid things i read and hear people saying......good grief! for instance.....we just want their oil.
okay, that's just incredibly naive to think that. if we just wanted their oil we would lift all sanctions. what? you think they wouldn't sell it to us as fast as they could? of course they would. we could have taken their oil in the first gulf war. but we are americans..we don't do that. you would have to talk to the french about that.....that's what they are after.
i am tired of all the 'self loathing' americans [insert liberal fools here] that sit around and wring their hands and whine about what a terrible country this is.
all i can say is...you don't get out much, do you?
this is a good country full of good people....not perfect, but no place is. it's a work in progress.
and isn't it interesting that when bill clinton was in office, no one even 'peeped' about his bombing runs.
at least try to be a little more centered and less reactive. it's just because the president is a republican and so many of you seem to think that being a pagan also means that you have to be a democrat. it's sooo dishonest......really.


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