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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 14,752,867  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

Hello,i Came Here Today Looking For Solace And Comfort. As The... Sep 16th. at 6:37:21 pm UTC

Nancy Liedel (Ann Arbor, Michigan US) Age: 37 - Email


I came here today looking for solace and comfort. As the week has unfolded I too have felt sad and helpless. We held a candle lighting ceremony in my home on Wednesday. Each of us placed our well wishes and healing thoughts on paper and placed the paper in water and then watered the earth with it. I am saving the paper to burn at Samhain. It is my hope that many of the families will have some closure by then.

However, more than any act of terror, more than any threat to national and personal security I am sickened, disgusted and ashamed that some have taken this time of tragedy and are attempting to use it to bolster their personal power and view of how America "should be" shaped. I receive three channels where I live now, the clearest is the PAX channel. On Friday I turned it on, hoping to get news (They had been running continuous NBC coverage) I flipped on the TV just in time to hear an exchange between Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell that made my blood run cold. Instead of calling for national unity they were blaming anyone who does not think and believe as they do for this terrible act of terror. As many of you now know they blamed, in addition to the Gay community and the ACLU and its members, the Pagan community.

To take something as heinous as what has happened and blame it on people to suit your own personal belief system is not something new with extremists. I should not be surprised. But I was surprised, shocked and scared. I have been out of the broom closet for many years and yet when my husbands aunt made a joke about "getting off my broom and coming to join the family (we had a family reunion yesterday, they were taking pictures and I was cooking the food) I shuddered and almost told her not to talk about my faith.

I hold my faith as the closest thing to my heart. Before I am a wife and mother I am a Pagan High Priestess. It surrounds, envelopes and enfolds me. It is my comfort when the world is cold, it is my rock when I am unsteady, it is my trust when trust is all but broken. To consider, even for a moment, hiding who I am was to break a covenant between myself and Goddess. A year ago I chose to never again hide my Pentacle, to be proud and strong and stand up for my right to practice the faith I choose.

I almost broke this sacred promise and left Goddess alone without me to support her, as she has always supported and sustained me, however, it was only a moment. No one, no matter who they are or what power they hold can take from me my faith. Never again will I hide from fear. The burning times are over. I am a pagan woman and even if I lose my life, I will never hide or deny it again. My belief in God and Goddess sustains me and my family. May it also sustain you and yours. May her precious light shine down on those who are buried in grief, and may it guide the rescuers to someone who is holding fast to their God in the dark, waiting in faith for that dim light. May her arms comfort those who have died alone and cold and may their families, who have gone before, welcome them with joy and erase the fear. May we all be strengthened by whatever we believe in these dark and troubled times.

I Heard A Joke Once About Someone That Got Killed By Bringing... Sep 16th. at 6:49:37 pm UTC

Adam Morris (Omaha, Nebraska US) Age: 31 - Email

I heard a joke once about someone that got killed by bringing a knife to a gun fight. Of course the punchline of the joke was racist, but it does bring up a point. Bringing the wrong weapon into a conflict is fatal. All the work that the pagan community has done in sending healing and protective energy is greatly appreciated. However neither magick nor prayer or the entire solution to this problem. I ask the Lord and the Lady to keep my household safe but I also make sure and lock the doors. I also ask them for food on my table and the health of my body as I go to work everyday to be able to buy groceries and exercise and eat properly.

If people hadn't been willing to fight and die we'd still be paying taxes to Great Britian and there wouldn't be a United States of America. If people wouldn't have been willing to fight and die then there would still be slaves in the South. If people wouldn't have been willing to fight and die then we might very well have seen the extermination of the Jewish people and we'd be speaking German or Russian. There are times for peaceful resistance and there are times to break out the guns and fight for the freedom that so many of us seem to be taking for granted.

No, we do not have a solid target as in the past. We are facing a group of people who are literally living amongst us waiting for their chance to go out in a blaze of glory to earn a place in heaven. I've met many Muslims and they have been just like people of every other faith, some good, some not so good. However these terrorists are ticking bombs and unless we find and stop them then the tragedy that happened on tuesday will not be the last one to bring tears to our eyes in the years to come.

Somethings are complicated and others are simple. We have asked Afghanistan to turn over the criminals they are giving shelter too and they are refusing. If they refuse we can wait for him to strike again and again and see how high the body count gets before we invade or we can go in now. Either way a lot of people are going to die and it is going to be unpleasant. Diplomacy will only take you so far.

Do not misunderstand me, I do not hate the people behind this. But that does not stop me from wanting them dead and the threat that the represent ended. When a dog goes rabid you put it down so it can't infect anything else and can do no more harm. The same thing needs to happen to these terrorists. I know the drill, as you sow so shall you reap but if the Gods mark no exceptions for killing to protect your home and family then it's time to start worshipping new ones.

Everything boils down to choice. We can sit and pray with our throats raised to the sky to make it easier for the knife that will be along to slit it (like a lamb to the slaughter) Or we can take positive direct action and hunt out the disease that lives among us and abroad. When I made the decision a long time ago to become Wiccan I also cast of the role of being a sheep. I respect the views of the people that have posted here during the past few days, but I do not understand most of them. If someone comes to your home to attack you will you stop trying to defend yourself after casting a protection spell or will you then procede to fight with everything you have to survive?

The potential for innocents to be hurt is staggering whether it be from all out armed conflict or petty hate crimes performed in ignorance and fear. Innocent are going to keep being hurt until the terrorists have been stopped.

My Family And I Did A Small Ritual And Lit One Solitary... Sep 16th. at 6:55:58 pm UTC

Nuriel (Sycamore) Age: 27 - Email

My family and I did a small ritual and lit one solitary white candle in remembrance of those who died. Trying to explain these horrific acts to my 8 and 9 year old has been a nearly impossible task. My heart aches for all of the families and friends. Being an empath, it's like I can feel every one of them. I do take some comfort in the wonderful way inwhich our nation has become a family. All races...All religions...All one.

I Offer All Americans My Condolences And My Grieving For The Awful... Sep 16th. at 7:05:29 pm UTC

Elena Ricci (Chiavenna, Italy) Age: 33 - Email

I offer all americans my condolences and my grieving for the awful facts of Tuesday September 11.
I lived in the USA four years and I still feel very close to the people there.
I also found the Goddess and the God, there, and this is something I will not forget.
Without Them I think I would feel much more scared and helpless.
The United States of America did a lot, for me personally and for my country, and I feel almost as if my country had been hit.
All my love and my prayers for your country, especially for those who lost someone. I also pray for wisdom to all the Powers of the Earth, to so overcome this crisis.
Your sister in the Lady and the Lord

I Would Like To Offer My Services A Free Religious Counselor At... Sep 16th. at 7:13:11 pm UTC

Delriece (Seattle, Washington US) Age: 20 - Email

I would like to offer my services a free religious counselor at this time. Please visit my web page at or email me directly at

911 What Else Can You Say.......may Light And Love Abound, May... Sep 16th. at 7:15:03 pm UTC

Judy Seslar (Atlanta, Georgia US) Age: 47 - Email

911 What else can you say.......May light and love abound, may those who have personally been touched find peace and tranquility in a time of deep confusion and choas, may strength and wisdom guide our actions. This is a wake-up call....please remember all countries and all religions are used by some folks that are just not in touch with reality - they are not a representative of our communitiies and beliefs. No mattter who we are or what our religion we all have families we love and in the end we are all people - erase the line in the sand and learn to love for it is the truth and constant for us all.

My Love goes to all - Blessings to all and may your light burn bright - and may our leaders know great wisdom at this troubling time. We will survive and go strong.
Lady Astraea

There Is A Time For Peaceful Contemplation And A Time For Action... Sep 16th. at 7:26:29 pm UTC

Macross (Sycamore, Illinois US) Age: 32 - Email

There is a time for peaceful contemplation and a time for action. There is a time for healing and a time for war. Not all problems can be solved with magik no matter how powerful or well intentioned. Quite a number of us have called upon the Morrigan at one time or another. We must not forget that she is a warrior Goddess. There are times when that kind of power is needed, now is one of those times. We are at war with an enemy who will never give up while life lasts. When our armed forces go forth to combat this enemy, I for one hope she is with them. I intend to be doing everything in my power, magically and materially, to protect our fighting men and women and strengthen them against this terrible foe.

I Pray With All My Heart That There Are Still People Alive... Sep 16th. at 8:09:52 pm UTC

mielikki (albany, New York US) Age: 39 - Email

I pray with all my heart that there are still people alive that we will find. There have to be. It's not impossible.

Therefore I have been casting the following spell:

I raise energy and focus it and direct it to those unfound survivors that they hold on to life and hope.

I raise energy and focus it and direct it to those searchers and rescuers that all their senses be alert and their spirits be able to continue to hope, even when it seems there is no chance.

I visualize clearly rescue workers finding and saving individuals and groups that have somehow managed to survive.

Oh mighty Isis, daughter of Ra,
Sister-wife to Osiris, mother of Horus,
I greet you this night in perfect love and perfect trust.
With free will to all and harm to none,
As I have willed, let it be done.

Test... Sep 16th. at 8:28:40 pm UTC

uu (juu) Age: 0 - Email


It Started Like Any Morning, I Got Up From Working A Graveyard... Sep 16th. at 8:38:34 pm UTC

K. Manis (Hesperia, California US) Age: 38

It started like any morning, I got up from working a graveyard shift around 9:30ish. I turned on the t.v and it was on Nickelodeon (I have a 11 year old daughter at home). I grabbed the remote and sat down at my computer. As I turned on my computer I flipped channels. I went to my local channel as always and instead of seeing my usual Judge Mathis it was the news. As they told the story I froze in disbelief. I could not believe what I was seeing or hearing. After a few minutes I rushed in to wake my room mate and tell her. Her daughter was in South Carolina coming home by way of Greyhound.
I am still realing from the attack on us. I just pray and beseech the lord and lady that cool heads will provail not only our world leaders but the common american at home and we stop the hate before we are consumed by the Karmic backlash that will ensue.

A Deadly Virus Was Released Into The Usa On September 11th. And... Sep 16th. at 8:41:57 pm UTC

Maggie Shayne Benson, (LadyHawke, the Mythmaker) (Central New York State, New York US) Age: 39 - Email

A deadly virus was released into the USA on September 11th. And it's spreading. The virus is called Hate.

It was brought here by some individuals who claim to be waging a holy war. But religion isn't about hate. It's about love. Islam doesn't teach hate. The teacher of those suicide bombers twisted his religion's teachings out of all proportion, until he poisoned the minds of his students with the virus. They became living vials of the disease that was eating their hearts and souls away. Perhaps that was their leader's goal. He didn't care about those men. He used them, infected them with hate, and then hurled them at the U.S. the way medieval armies hurled plague-carrying rats over the city walls of their enemies in the middle ages. Those airliners carried more than innocent passengers, brave pilots, and deadly terrorists. They carried the virus of Hate.

When the planes detonated, the virus was released. Hate killed thousands on impact. It wounded thousands of others. But that was only the beginning, because it spread, became airborne, and is even now making its way across the entire nation, traveling from heart to heart.

The symptoms are wild and varied, but all incredibly easy to spot. People who are normally kind and loving, suddenly have blood in their eye. They wish for the deaths of other people. An entire race. Even pray for it! They'd like to see whole nations reduced to rubble, entire peoples brought to their knees. They say things like, "Let's just blow them all away. God will sort them out!" And, "Who cares how many of their innocents die? Did they bother to spare our civilians?" And, "Why do we let their kind into our country in the first place? Why don't they stay home where they belong?" They make jokes about "camel jockeys" and "towel heads." Hateful, hurtful, evil germs spread with every word they utter and every thought they think.

These are the early symptoms. In the later stages, more serious ones develop. Some patients shout obscenities at anyone who bears a physical resemblance to the original carriers of the disease. Some physically assault them. People who look a certain way, those who bear the strikingly beautiful dark eyes and hair and skin indicative of Arab descent, find their homes and businesses attacked. One hate-infected individual left a flaming bag of excrement on the front steps of an innocent's home. Another smashed in the windows of an ethnic grocery store owned by an Arab American. One victim fired his weapon into a place of worship, peppering it with bullet holes. Several others tried to burn similar holy places to the ground. Holy places. Temples of worship. That how destructive the Hate virus is, that those suffering from it can pray to their own god while destroying the house of anotherĐnever even caring that the two are one and the same. Can you imagine it? "God, please, rip my enemy to shreds, while I destroy your most holy shrine! Do this because I am righteous and they only think they are!"

God, by any name, is crying tears of blood today, and is ashamed of the acts being carried out in His or Her or Their holy name(s.)

It's quite clear acts such as those I have described are symptoms of the same disease that infected the hijackers, because they manifest in exactly the same way: In mindless, illogical, idiotic hatred and violence against innocent civilians.

The victims of this disease who are burning mosques and shouting obscenities and posting racist "jokes" all over the Internet, are no different in any way from the ones who flew those jets into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. No different. Except perhaps in their own minds. They are in the earlier stages of the same disease.

There is only one cure for the rampant Hate Virus. (Many think attacking it with more hate is the solution, but that only makes it stronger.) Buddha gave us the answer. So did Jesus. And Mohamed, and Allah. The Pope, the Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa, Kwan Yin, Inanna, Gaia, Aradia, Mary Magdalene, the Virgin Mary, and countless others. The cure is love. Every spiritual leader of every faith agrees.

If you know someone who is infected with the virus, and you don't tell them, you are guilty of helping it to spread. Telling them that their hatred is a sickness is an act of love, and will help to cure it. The more people who tell them, the closer they will be to a cure. When they finally realize that it's true, they'll be cured.

Love. Give it freely to the victims of the initial assault, and all the other victims of this disease that has infected our nation. Use it to innoculate those not yet infected with the hate virus, and use it to treat those who have.

It is in love, and out of love for the entire body of mankind, that the source of the virus must be eliminated. Like a cancerous tumor, it must be cut out. But not in rage or anger. Out of love and a need to do what's best for the good of the whole. And with as little damage as humanly possible to the innocent, lest we inadvertently infect them and start the disease spreading all over again. Perhaps the only way the tumor that has entered the world in the name of Islam, is for the true Muslims of the world to remove it themselves. Give them love so that they have the strength to do so. Do not infect them with hate by hurling it at them, lest they lose sight of the greater good. Perhaps if all Muslim leaders condemn this behavior, it can finally be extracted from the body of man.

You can help. Spread love, enough to overwhelm the hate. Don't sit quietly while people make racist comments or tell racist jokes, or spew their hatred and rage, or cry out for war.

If we cannot defeat the hate quickly enough, the USA will try to remove this cancer from the world by force. This is the year 2001, people. The TRUE Millennium. We have nuclear weapons, and they have biological ones. Sting said it years ago, and it's even more true today: "There's no such thing as a winnable war. It's a lie we don't believe anymore."

Spread love. Stop the hate. And Pray for Peace. Work magick that our leaders exercise the utmost restraint and give the world a chance to rid itself of this illness. Pray that if our leaders do strike, that they do so in wisdom and in love, not in rage and hate and vengeanceĐsurgically removing the tumors; bin Laden, Hussein, the TalibanĐbut sparing, even protecting, the healthy cells all around them. The innocent lives. The others who are victims just as we have been.

I know we're angry. I know we want someone to pay. But we cannot afford to indulge ourselves in those feelings. If hate wins, we are not talking about an extended war, and we are not talking about heavy losses. Make no mistakeĐwe're talking about the very real possibility of destroying ourselves and our planet. The annihilation of mankind. A third world war. That's what's at stake here, and nothing less.

We CANNOT stand in silence and watch this happen.

Speak out against hate! Work for peace and restraint, work for healing and protection. Spread love as widely and thickly as you can. It's our only hope.

Rev. Maggie Shayne Benson aka: LadyHawke, the Mythmaker

I Was Home On Tuesday, I Had Barely Woken Up When Nbc's... Sep 16th. at 8:52:02 pm UTC

Amanda (North Jersey, New Jersey US) Age: 21 - Email

I was home on Tuesday, I had barely woken up when nbc's today was broken into with the image of the one tower burning. And while my mother and I watched, we kept having to switch channels because they kept going off the air and back on again. Radio stations played only news. And around 11, my sister got the call from work to go down near Jersey City and Bayonne, she's an EMT, and they needed everyone. She didn't come home until midnight, and then she just took time for a shower, a few short stories that we didn't want to hear about what was happening, and was out the door until 8am. She worked a lot like that, with more sleep until saturday, and then she got a day off.
Mom and I wanted to do something, so we went to go donate blood. We were turned away at the local blood banks, they said they were at capacity, to come back in a few weeks and donate then. We tried to donate our time, but we couldn't get places early enough, by 8am, the red cross, salvation army, and the piers at Jersey City were turning people away, so we put our names on a few lists to be called for volunteering when they needed people again. I wanted so much to help... if I could just do something, I wouldn't feel so helpless... maybe I could forget the smell of dust when the wind blew from the south. Maybe I could forget how much that first fighter plane going overhead scared the hell out of me, or how on thursday I woke up in the middle of that thunderstorm and ran downstairs to turn on the tv 'cause I thought something else had happened.
So, I did my ritual, I called out to Maat for justice and Kwan Yin for compassion. I can only hope they heard me... I helped my family put up all the flags we have thanks to a 4th of july birthday and my dad being a vietnam vet. And now, there's candles, those big yankee candle ones, burning on our porch, all day, all night. As a reminder. And I feel better. I don't know any victims, but I'm still sad and scared.
What about war? What about it? If Bush is smart, he'll send in some ground troops to get that bin Laden guy, instead of bombs. Bombs will not only hurt innocent people, but they won't do much to cites already reduced to rubble from thier own fighting. CNN has been reporting that Afgani resistance leaders have said they are more than willing to fight alongside with US troops to get the Taliban out of power and bin Laden out of Afganistan. They said they have 15, 000 trained men, and 15, 000 more willing that they can train. They sound like some damn good escorts to have. What to do with Bin Laden when they get him? I say death is too good. He should feel the horror he has inflicted on others. My favorite suggestion is to put him in a NYC prison. That would definatly inspire terror in him.
And for all of you who don't want war, I want a good suggestion on how to do this peacefully. How do you reason with people who believe that if they die killing you, they go to heaven? No one is innocent to them. We are all guilty of not supporting thier cause. And to them, that is a crime punishable by death. We cannot just roll over and fogive these people. There is no fogiveness for maybe 5, 000 civilian deaths. Especially all those that were working to save others when the towers came down. I don't know about you, but I want blood. I may be immature but some things are worth fighting for, and I belive that making sure this never happens to anyone else ever again is one of them.

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