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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,634,778  

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Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


My Neighbor, Father Of A 4 Year Old Is Gone, Another Neighbor's... Sep 17th. at 12:21:08 am UTC

Embeth (Brooklyn, New York US) Age: 3


My neighbor, father of a 4 year old is gone, Another neighbor's oldest brother, father
of 3 is gone, countless firefighters from this neighborhood are gone, My favorite employee
at the local drugstore is missing-
The faces of people on the street are blank-We live in the largest Arabic community in
Brooklyn-They are all scared-My neighbors, a beautiful family from Palestine are horrified, embarassed and afraid-their young children are confused-This is a nightmare-
Embeth


In The Midst Of All The Death And Despair, There Is Still... Sep 17th. at 12:45:08 am UTC

Ivy Greenwood (Simi Valley, California US) Age: 45 - Email


In the midst of all the death and despair, there is still room for life and hope.
Two friends of mine have just given birth! Two beautiful little Pagan baby girls have
come into the world, a sign, surely, that life always finds a way. The Wheel still turns,
the Cycle still runs true. We are changed, saddened, made wiser, but we are not ended.
Even as we are lost, we are renewed.

I have no idea what the coming days will bring this nation. I pray for peace and sanity.
Going to war will just kill thousands of innocent people---which is, if I recall correctly,
the exact same thing the terrorists did. (And I know there are those who say, "But they hate
us!" Yes, that is true, but they have been misled, and being misled is not a capital offense.)

I, too, want justice, and I will be honest and say that I don't know how this can best be accomplished. But I do know that wholesale slaughter is not the way. Violence begets more
violence. Killing leads to more killing. There has to be another way. May the Lady and Lord
give our leaders the wisdom to find that other, better way!


The Events Of These Past Days Have Saddened And Disturbed Me, And... Sep 17th. at 12:45:51 am UTC

Rhiannon Elizabeth Chesley Kozma (Orinda, California US) Age: 37 - Email


The events of these past days have saddened and disturbed me, and it's been all the more difficult to move through my shock, pain and grief because, at times, IÕve had to hold myself in an impersonal space in order to do my job...

IÕm a broadcast journalist, working for an international cable channel that focuses on technology. Soon after the first plane hit, a producer ran into the newsroom and told us to turn on the ABC news feed. Something had happened at the World Trade Center towers in New York City. We saw the initial devastation and everyone started yelling out what they thought had happened. ŅItÕs a fire, somethingÕs gone wrong with the electrical systems, Ó said one of my colleagues. ŅItÕs another bomb, Ó offered another. Then the unfathomable truth came over the news wire. A plane had slammed into the building. Another wave of speculation. ŅIt must have been a small plane that lost control.Ó ŅA rogue suicidal pilot that was trying to make a name for himself.Ó ÓMaybe there is some massive problem at air traffic control in the area.Ó Grasping at straws, we tried to make sense of the tragedy that was unfolding before our eyes. Then we all stood and watched as the second plane, obviously a large jetliner, slammed into the second of the twin towers. Our initial reaction was horror and disbelief. We couldnÕt have seen what we thought we just saw. It isnÕt true. This just doesnÕt happen here, in the United States, to innocent people. The thought flashed in my head and I spoke it out loud. ŅThis is our generationÕs Pearl Harbor, Ó I said. My executive producer told me not to overreact. Later, Tom Brokaw and others would echo my sentiment in those moments.

When the first plane hit, we were 15 minutes from going on the air live for our daily 9-hour tech news and information show. Suddenly, our mission of covering technology and its impact on our society took a back seat to covering this series of horrors that we were bearing live witness to. For the next few hours, even as we watched the collateral events unfold Š the attack on the Pentagon, the plane crashing outside Pittsburgh, the towers collapsing, the sad, sick realization that this was a deliberate attack on defenseless thousands Š we got down to our work of bringing the latest on the situation to our viewers. Many of my coworkers are from the New York area or have people they know there. We have bureaus in New York City and Washington D.C. I have a good friend who had just moved to New York City to be with his fiancˇ. We didnÕt know about our loved ones or our coworkers and had no way to contact them. No cell phones in the New York area would work. Internet access and e-mail was either down or overloaded as the world tried to get more information and answers.

I moved through that first day in a fog of seeming objectivity, but now I know I was in shock. My psyche was protecting me. After a 14-hour day I went home and tried to rest, because I had to be back to work at 2:00 am the next morning for probably another 12-hour day. The next day was a little better, in that many of us had good news about our loved ones and colleagues, but then again, the full impact of this example of manÕs inhumanity against man was becoming all too apparent. The numbers kept climbing, the hope kept fading and we kept working.

I had been scheduled to take Thursday and Friday off, personal days to move into a new house. I asked if I could defer the time off, to stay and support the team. My request was denied. They would need me the following week to take up the slack. I went home and turned on the television. And saw for the first time the now immortal images of firefighters raising a flag over the massive pile of rubble, reminiscent of Marines raising the flag over Iwo Jima.

Finally, inevitably, the grief enveloped me. I cried as if I would never stop. I cried for the families of those who were lost, who kissed their loved ones goodbye that morning, never imagining that would be the last kiss, the last touch, the last goodbye. I cried for a nation whose security was now shattered, and whose future, while not in immediate jeopardy, is forever changed. I cried for a generation once innocent, now facing the reality of war in their time.

But I cried mostly for the thousands of innocent people who lost their lives in that moment of terror, targeted as the first casualties in a war that they didnÕt sign up to fight.

A wonderful friend, sensing my anguish in a conversation we had on the first day of the tragic attacks, wrote the following poem for me...it touched my heart and soul and helped me know that, although this current chaos and anxiety can be overwhelming, where there is love there is healing.

He has graciously allowed me to share this poem with you. I hope it brings you as much comfort and consolation as it brought me.

NO WINGS TO LIFT ME HIGH ENOUGH

No wings to lift me high enough
To offer fleeting comfort
To those who faced the certain
And onrushing hour of their end

Not the wings of the hawk
However steadfast and unyielding

No wings to lift me high enough
To cradle those who faced
A fate reserved for warriors
Though none chose the path of the sword

Not the wings of the raven
However hardened and remorseless

No wings to lift me high enough
To soar above the fear
And glimpse beyond the carnage
The place where our lives are still pure

Not the wings of the dove
However serene and forgiving

But wings I'll find to rise as high
As love will lift me up
And earthbound ties of grieving
Will stretch to allow me my dreams

Wings of a butterfly
No matter how fragile they may be

(For Elizabeth, September 11, 2001)
~ Todd Covert

One of the reasons my friendÕs poem touched me so deeply was because of the last two linesÉ

ŅWings of a butterfly
No matter how fragile they may beÓ

The wings of a butterfly are fragile, yet they lift a being up to the highest heights, to drift on the purest winds. We may want to strike with the ferocity of a hawk, but in our fragile state, we need to take the time to consider the consequences of our actions and hold ourselves to a higher standard than our attackers.

As we move forward toward healing, I pray that we remember the foundation on which our country is built. All people are created equal. Freedom of choice. Freedom of expression. Religious tolerance. LetÕs remember that all of us are here because either our forbears or we came to this country to practice these ideals. It does not serve us to paint those we might see as our offenders with a broad brush of prejudice. If we move forward toward blind vengeance, then those who visited these atrocities upon us have accomplished their sinister mission. They will have made us into what they areÉzealots, fanatics with tunnel vision, bent on personal glory, focused only on making one way the only way.

I have always considered myself a patriot, but I am today more a patriot than I have ever been. And at the same time, I encourage us all to be patriotic, not fanatic. As a nation and a people, we are a beacon of hope and freedom to the worldÉnow is the time to step up to that responsibility.

Pray for peace and healing


Tuesday Morning~i Awoke Rather Very Early, But As I Tried To... Sep 17th. at 1:12:39 am UTC

Seryn (San Antonio, Texas US) Age: 21 - Email


~Tuesday Morning~
I awoke rather very early, but as I tried to fall back asleep...I started to choke and cough. I couldn't breathe. I sat up and noticed it was 8:38am (Central Time). I was slightly confused about why this happened. I never wake up this early, if I can help it. I then had a terrible feeling in m gut and ran to the phone. It then rang, I picked up and it was my boyfriend. He told me to go turn on the TV. I then saw W.T.C. on fire, I watched the planes crash into the buildings. I fell to my knees in shock. I watched as the three of America's greatest glories, The Petagon and Twin Towers fell into the ground. There is nothing left but loss of life, pain, grief, and many un answered questions. But, the unity and love has risen from the ash and fire from the this country and the world. This wonderful, strong country is now a powerful phoenix, and we will learn to fly again.

I lit a blessing candle and have been burning it ever since Tuesday. I pray to the Lady Goddess and Horned God for comfort and justice. We are completely changed from this event and will never be the same. I wish for my faith to stay strong, I wish for relief for the victims of this horrible tragedy. I want the person(s) responsable for this attack to our home brought to Justice. I have been very depressed all week. The more and more I hear of lost loved ones and cry even more. Why did this need to happen? My heart is truly crying, and I see everyone in America is crying endlessly. I do see people uniting and becoming one strong nation again. We will prevail.
~Bright Blessings to all, thank you for letting me get all of this off my chest. ~Blessed Be!~


New**moon**ritual**today, Monday 17 September (sorry For The Wrong Day... Sep 17th. at 4:46:15 am UTC

John ("New Naumkeag", Ohio US) Age: 34 - Email


**NEW**MOON**RITUAL**

Today, Monday 17 September (sorry for the wrong day in the previous post -- it's almost 5 a.m. my time), is the New Moon. It is also the first New Moon since the terrorist attacks. It is also one week since those attacks.

Because of all that, I think today would be an auspicious day to cast negative magic for the postive goal of Justice. If you agree or are interested, please visit

http://wiccans.com/host/john_littlew/index.htm

to find a ritual to curse and to bind the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001. It is ethically composed and ruthless for Justice.

I have worked feverishly over the last several days to research and compose this ritual; I have worked till well after 4 a.m. EDT (GMT -4) tonight to hand-code a webpage to post it on -- so that it would be available in time for people on both sides of the Atlantic to work the ritual on this New Moon. The webpage is nothing pretty, but it does hold the ritual. May it be of some use to the community and to winning this imminent war.

Blessed Be.

--John


To Embeth...i Am So Sorry For Your Loss, And Your Fear... Sep 17th. at 5:47:38 am UTC

Merryn (Chrsitchurch, New Zealand) Age: 23 - Email


TO EMBETH...I am so sorry for your loss, and your fear and the fear of your friends, on top of this tradgedy it is extremely unfair. But remember that not all people out there feel this way, we realise that you, whether you share similarities in religon, or country of origin with those BELIEVED (I reiterate it has not been proven that those thought to have done this actually were invloved) to have master-minded this horrible event. But there will always be those who are looking for an excuse to hate.
But take heart that the majority of us greive with you and you friends and family for their losses. We feel for you and send our love and blessings to you.
I wish I could jump through the computer and give you and everyone in America, and in the World for that matter a HUGE hug and tell you and them that it will be alright, maybe not now, maybe not even a long time in the future, but eventually, maybe...who can say.
LOVE will get us through this, LOVE will keep all sane through the tragedy, those who hate degrade the memories of those who died...its an insult to them, it makes me so furious even thinking of it. I'd love to tell these people this, but I'm resonably sure none of those people would ever come to this page.
So Embeth, don't lose heart. They are but few, we are but many...and our love shall over come their hate tenfold. In our grief we are all one, even if some don't act that way.

HUGE hugs to you and your friends Embeth. AMD HUGS AND HUGS AND HUGS!


I'm Very Concerned For The Moslems And For Anyone Who Looks Middle... Sep 17th. at 7:17:13 am UTC

Dianna Bryant (Marianna, Florida US) Age: 44 - Email


I'm very concerned for the Moslems and for anyone who looks Middle Eastern in our country.
my daughter married a Moslem man from Turkey just over a month ago. Angie is becoming a
Moslem. She wears the scarf and Moslem dress. Last Tuesday she walked to her bus stop and
rode to her university. The world fell apart that morning, Angie was spat upon and cursed.
Some Middle Eastern students were beaten, school was closed and students were sent home.
Friday, the Mosque that Angie and Atila were married in recieved gun fire. An Arab man's gas
station in the same area was shot up. Saturday, my son-in-laws' business was trashed. He
owns a small store in a mall. Someone ran through and knocked everything off his shelves.
I call my daughter everyday to find out if they're okay. My son-in-law is very Middle
Eastern looking. I'm lighting candles and praying each night. My oldest daughter pulled up
in my yard two nights ago and said that my yard looked like an alien landing strip. I am
very concerned for the innocent people who have died, for their familys and friends, for
those involved in the search and recovery, and for the innocent world wide. I hope those
involved will recieve punishment, but I hope that the innocent will not be punished along
with them. Please pray for our Moslem innocent neighbors, I have read about the internment
camps that Japanese Americans were put into after Pearl Harbour. Blessed Be The Innocent
Peace Unto You, Dianna Bryant/Owlwin Fogsitter


I Usually Am Not One To Agg On War, I Hate The... Sep 17th. at 7:28:14 am UTC

Lancelot of the Mirror (Wichita, Kansas US) Age: 20 - Email


I usually am not one to agg on war, I hate the idea of it. But the taliban needs it. They have twisted thier faith to oppress women, religious minorities, and others. These aren't your friendly nieghborhood muslims, they're monsters. May lady Liberty become the dark Goddess and strike them hard. It takes alot of thought to express thoughts and feelings such as these, and I didn't come to my conclusions hastily.

in the end, may we come out a peaceful and loving world


I Am Saddened By Tuesday's Attacks But As A Christian/pagan And... Sep 17th. at 8:03:07 am UTC

Ann Whalen (Springfield, Illinois US) Age: 41 - Email


I am saddened by Tuesday's attacks but as a Christian/pagan and as I read the pagan communities' posts and Wren's news bits, I am saddened more that Christians are once again lumped into the same categories. Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson no more represent mainline Christianity than Osama bin Laden represents the Muslim community. I realize that people love to put faces on enemies in order to make examples, but balance and reason are still called for and I hope that reports of those Muslims celebrating in the streets of America over the attacks are also reported in the pagan news and exposed as examples of radical thinking just as Christian comments are. Blessings on all.


Though I Am Sorry For Every Individual Person That Died That Day... Sep 17th. at 8:09:23 am UTC

Thorn Ronin (Krefeld, Gilbert Islands) Age: 27 - Email


Though I am sorry for every individual person that died that day, I am quite astonished to witness all the rage, anger and sadness that came over so many people that day.
It's like most of them did not know that every day people die, suffer and weep. Right now a mother is loosing her newborn child just because the economy of the USA thinks it is a good idea to make big profits with expensive medical treatment.
I can feel people dying every day and so many of them due to reasons that could easily have been avoided, if we all had stood together. But we didn't, and that's why I bid all of you to answer the question of a young mother in Africa or anywhere else: "Where was your concern, where were your tears when my husband and my young son were tortured to death and I was raped and robbed?"
From my point of view is anyone who deems this to be a cruel and unfitting question just a hypocrit, or do you think, only the blood shed by a citizen of the US is worth the world's grief?
Yours sincerely
Thorn


I Have So Little Time Today, But I Feel That I Must... Sep 17th. at 8:29:27 am UTC

Marian (Wichita) Age: 49


I have so little time today, but I feel that I must post these thoughts before I can work. With all due respect to those who wish to hold a dark working tonight, the night of the new moon, in order to raise the power of revenge and retaliation, I have to object. Violence begets violence. I am and American, and I cry for the lives lost and the pain that we have incurred. But there has to be a better way than to create more pain and destruction. I beg those that would do this to target only the people who were actually responsible for this terrible act. And I ask those who feel as I do to send their energies with mine in a working for peace and rationality, tonight, 9/17/01, at 9:00 p.m. CST.


Calling All Pagans:i Have Received This From A Friend And Thought... Sep 17th. at 8:43:02 am UTC

Seldanna (Norwood (outside Boston), Massachusetts US) Age: 25 - Email


Calling all Pagans:

I have received this from a friend and thought that this would be the perfect opportunity for everyone to unite. I know that we all have done so much in respect to prayers, rituals, and even the simple lighting of a candle for those lost and those left behind. Here is the perfect opportunity to pray for the world. Please read below and pass on to all Pagans you know. This could be an incredible event if word gets out.

My heart goes out to those suffering. May the gracious Lord and Lady watch over you and yours.

Blessed Be!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ September 15, 2001

A Call to all Witches, Pagans, Children of the Goddess, Native Peoples and Practitioners of Magic.

After being sleepless for three nights, an idea came to me of peoples of all colors in all places around our beautiful green jewel of a planet casting circles, singing, dancing, and calling on all the ancient powers of the earth and ancestors to protect Mother earth and her children in this time of eminent danger.

The forces of hatred, aggression and insanity threaten to envelop the hearts and minds of world leaders and send them towards favoring vengeful murders, mass destruction, and the possibility of unending war. This kind of response is a continuation of domination, oppression and deeper insanity itself.

So this is a simple request; a call to action for all Pagans, Peoples of Earth-Based Spirituality, and practitioners of the ancient ways to join together world wide and cast a circle of protection around the earth and all species of her off-spring; with special focus directed toward her human children.

The high holy day of the Autumn Equinox approaches. The equinox begins at 7:05 PM September 22, 2001, (Greenwich Mean Time). If possible, wherever you are whether alone or with friends; cast, dance, or imagine a sacred circle on that day and ask for the following;

1) Peace and the protection of earth and all her children.

2) Clarity, vision, forethought and right action to all leaders and peoples in their decision making and,

3) That all acts of hatred, murder, war and mass destruction, be averted.

I know that many people in this last week have been harmed and angered, or killed, but PLEASE do not curse or wish harm on any nation or person. Remember Do what thou wilt, and harm none.

This is an opportunity for all of us to join together around the world and bring our positive power, light, and magic to assuage ignorance, desperation and fear. Pass this on if you want to. Ho!

Blessing be to all,

Sandi Stein, Sonoma County, CA


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