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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,204,057  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Our Tears We Addi Cannot Write A Poem Todaymy Heart... Sep 17th. at 8:28:25 pm UTC

Moonflwr912 (Port Washington, Wisconsin US) Age: 47 - Email


Our Tears We Add

I cannot write a poem today
my heart is broken, shattered clay.

The news that passed from hand to hand twas
sharp and cut bone deep -- and damned.

And yet, I felt just one small part that
called to me from other's hearts.

Our Tears we add as we lay them to rest
and be reborn in the Mother's breast.

All tha'ts left is for us to pray

I cannot write.....


Miracles Happen Blessing To All....after A While You Learn The Subtle... Sep 17th. at 9:17:34 pm UTC

Karen Piazza (Highlands, New Jersey US) Age: 44 - Email


Miracles Happen Blessing to all....
After a while you learn the subtle
difference between holding a hand and
chaining a soul....
And you learn that love doesn't mean
security...
And you begun to accept your defeats with
your head up and your eyes open...
With the grace of a woman, not the grief
of a child....
And you learn to build all your roads on
today because tomorrow's ground is too
uncertain, and futures have a way of
falling down in mid-flight....
After a while you learn that even sunshine
burns if you get too much....
So you plant your own garden and decorate
your own soul instead of waiting for some
one else to bring you flowers...
And you learn that you really can endure
That you really are strong....
And you really do have worth...and you learn and learn with every goodbye you learn...Kpac2@webtv.net DogLady.....


In The First Few Days After The Attack, Many Pagans I Know... Sep 17th. at 9:53:21 pm UTC

Erwyllian (Cincinnati, Ohio US) Age: 46 - Email


In the first few days after the attack, many Pagans I know reacted out of shock. It had its effects. Posting boards all over the net rang with pleas for peace, appeals to Goddesses, and questions about what incease to burn. After the dust of WTC settled - along with some of the fainter hearts among us, most Pagans I know are preparing for war, and showing their worth, as humans, Pagans, as Americans.

For the last few years, it has been the given wisdom that somehow, we lacked what our forefathers had and showed in the face of the enemy. That wisdom was wrong. I've posted this following bit on a number of boards - always gaining the same positive response as Pagans regain their spiritual and political equilibrium. September 11th 2001 has been compared to December 7th 1941, perhaps we should remember that today, most historians view December 7th 1941 as the day that Japan lost the Second World War.

Last Samhain, a number of Pagans began talking about how strange that feast was, there was talk of a growing coldness, a darkness cast over the world, the feeling that the Veil had thinned and somehow could not be well closed. It has been a feeling which has stayed with many of us. And here we stand.

Pagans seem to have something of an image problem both from outside our community and from within it. It is as if we were all fey dreamers - longing for the world of faery. Perhaps it is time to speak of other Gods: Cammulos, Cerridwyn, Athena, Mithras. It has been noted here and on many other boards that Pagans within the US military have won the right to hold rites. This means that American Pagans are serving in our military. They will take their places with their countrymen. They will kill. They will be killed. May all of our Gods grant them a hard heart, clear sight and understanding and a fast return to their hearths

~Erwyllian


Thank You Zeyra! For So Eloquently Putting Into Words What Is So... Sep 17th. at 9:59:32 pm UTC

Micki (Pinellas Park, Florida US) Age: 43


Thank you Zeyra!
For so eloquently putting into words what is so hard for some of us to say to others!
I came here tonight to try and find some peace in my heart and my soul from the nightmare of the last few days. I knew that coming into this place with like minds and open hearts was where I needed to be.

True world Peace I fear will not be with us for some time to come. Thank you all for being a small island of peace for my tattered eclectic soul tonight.
Love, Blessings and above Peace


Hello All...i Am Not A Pagan/wiccan Myself, I Guess I'm... Sep 17th. at 10:11:13 pm UTC

Nicky C. (Torrance, California US) Age: 29 - Email


Hello all...

I am not a Pagan/Wiccan myself, I guess I'm an agnostic for want of a better label. But among the people I truly love, I count a few Wiccans and Pagans. And Secularists and Feminists and Gays and Lesbians. Funny, all those groups that Falwell spoke against...

On that Tuesday, I got to work between the WTC being hit for the second time and the Pentagon being hit. My co-workers and I sat in our office listening to the radio. It was still dark here on the west coast. We sat in the dark wondering when - or even if - the chain of planes crashing would ever stop. We're a pretty lively bunch with diverse religious, political and personal views. We've gotten into some fairly heated discussions over the years. Right then, none of that mattered.

And now, to hear that Falwell was spewing such vicious, venemous tripe, sowing division at a time when we need to be one people. I wonder if he said that because he needs *someone* to blame and he knows he'd be in trouble if he picked on the Muslims?

HOW DARE HE call himself a Christian - a follower of Christ's teachings?

HOW DARE HE use a crisis like this to push his own religious/politcal agenda?

I would ask HOW DARE HE call himself an American, but the right to be an asshole is a basic protected right. He does have the right to his opinions, and he does have the right to express them. And I DON'T think those rights should be taken away, but in truth, he really doesn't strike me as someone of faith expressing an honest belief - he strikes me as a ruthless opportunist using this atrocity to try to forward his own agenda.

I have Christians among my friends and family too. They are horrified, both by the disaster and this idiot's words.

I used to think that Rev. Fred Phelps was the worst example of a heartless monster that gives Christianity a bad name. I think Falwell just surpassed him.

I keep telling myself to consider the source. After all, what can one expect from an asshole but excrement? But it's not really helping me right now.

On Friday, I was touched by parts of the memorial service (we had the TV on at work - our boss brought one with him when he came in on Tuesday as he knew we had nothing but the radio), but I couldn't help feeling a little left out, as a person of no particular religion to speak of. It would have been nice to see a few more faiths represented. Maybe it's just an urge to remind folks that Pagans and Wiccans and Agnostics and Atheists are Americans too, and have been hurt and killed too, and mourn their dead too, and love their country too...

I have to admit, I'm a little worried about Falwell and those like him, especially with a Republican in office (there are things I like about the Republican party, but I cannot in good conscience vote for them as long as the Christian Coalition is riding in their coat pockets - the party is not what it once was), I worry that there might be an effort to suspend that annoying, inconvenient little freedom of religion clause (not to mention a few other annoying civil liberties) - in the best interests of *unity*, of course.

I guess I just wanted to say that in a case like that, I'm right with ya, folks. Of course it is just an extension of fighting for my friends and family - a varied bunch.

My hopes are with you, and this country.

Nicky C.


I Offer The Prayer Below To Anyone And Everyone Who May Find... Sep 17th. at 10:26:02 pm UTC

M. Macha NightMare (San Rafael, California US) Age: 58 - Email


I offer the prayer below to anyone and everyone who may find comfort in it. It may be circulated as long as credit is retained.

Blessings,
Macha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For One Who Has Died Violently or in Great Distress

Mother of healing,
help us to believe in the
place where wounds can heal.

Mother of weaving,
show us that what has been torn
can there be mended.

The worsts has happened.
How can we believe again
in hope, love, kindness?
[name the loved one three times]

Boatman, Ferryman,
she has had a rough crossing.
Carry her gently.

Comfort her, Mother,
in your warm arms of
night; rock her to sleep.

And by our rage,
Mother of Justice,
May justice be done.

by Starhawk, from THE PAGAN BOOK OF LIVING AND DYING


When This Nightmare Began A Week Ago, My Only Thoughts Were, "what... Sep 17th. at 10:48:28 pm UTC

Ariana (Lancaster, Ohio US) Age: 37 - Email


When this nightmare began a week ago, my only thoughts were, "What can I do to help?" Since then, I have learned that there isn't much I can do physically, there is enough chaos in NYC and DC withoutsome untrained volunteers trying to help out. What I did discover, through lots of meditation and prayer, that the best thing I can do to help is just talk to people, help them to understand what happened and to help them move forward. The Goddess is with us throughout this tragic time, we pagans have to remember that. I still cry every time I see another replay of the events of 9-11, when I hear sound bites on the radio, when I even think about what happened, but I know that this will make us stronger, it will help us to realize that our petty differences do not mean much in the great scheme of things. May the Goddess bless us all and may she be with those who lost loved ones, may She comfort them and bless their lives.

For any of you that read this, take a look around...are your loved ones still with you, if they are, give them a hug, tell them you love them. This tragedy just proves how suddenly life can be taken away, and it's easier to take a minute and say I love you than it is to sit in regret that your loved ones never knew how you felt.

Blessed Be.


I'm One Of Many Who Is Shocked And Horrified At What Has... Sep 18th. at 1:01:14 am UTC

Sheryl (San Francisco, California US) Age: 38


I'm one of many who is shocked and horrified at what has happened. This is all so like a horrible nightmare!! I'm scared, saddened, jumpy. I'm greatful that The Witches Voice has opened up this forum. May the Gods help all of those who are suffering through this tragedy, those who are working round the clock in the devestated areas, and all of us Americans. Blessed Be.


Nearly A Week Later Exactly And Just Now Are My Thoughts Coming... Sep 18th. at 1:07:47 am UTC

Melanie Pohl (Auburn Hills, Michigan US) Age: 21 - Email


Nearly a week later exactly and just now are my thoughts coming together. Just now am I beginning to answer the question I first asked myself when I learned of what happened: What do you say to something like this?

My thoughts remain with those who are victims. My thoughts are with their loved ones. My thoughts are with those working to help in whatever way they can. My energies directed towards the best for all. My energies directed towards justice. Every thought, every action, every breath is one in recognition of them and of this experience. My tears may have ebbed, but the feeling behind them remains, more focused.

And in that focus I worry. As great as my concern is for what has happened, I find myself more concerned with what WILL happen in light of these events. The past is past, but we are still making the present and the future that will come of it. I see so much energy focused on what's going on. But in all of this I can't help but wondering if we are TRULY a "nation united". Certainly there IS unity in this common focus of attentions. But how deep does it run? Or is it a more superficial variety?

These are not questions asked of a pessimistic person. Rather, these are questions asked by one who, behind the flag waving, sees a trend of finger-pointing and "them"s and "they"s. I see "good old red-blooded Americans" parked outside of mosques, waving United States flags and shouting slurs. I hear people seriously asking how they can do anything but look at "those people" with suspicion. "Those people" are fellow American citizens who just happen to be of Arab decent instead of the questioners' "Heinz 57" European Caucasian background.

When I see people judging another person because they just happen to fit into a broad and often arbitrary group with those INDIVIDUALS who are responsible for what happened last Tuesday, INDIVIDUALS acting in a way by no means representative of the whole group, I worry. When I see certain Americans dividing themselves into "us vs. them" WITHIN this country I wonder how TRULY "united" we are. Are we TRULY up to the challenge of facing the real enemy in a quest for justice when we cannot see that we are stabbing ourselves in the foot by attacking our own?

I only hope that we can become "a nation united" in time to turn and fight this common threat before we destroy ourselves in the process.


I Remember Two Very Vivid Dreams That I Had In The Weeks... Sep 18th. at 1:17:38 am UTC

Leriahl Owlshade (Upstate, South Carolina US) Age: 29 - Email


I remember two very vivid dreams that I had in the weeks prior to September 11. These dreams contained visions of disaster from the sky, people full of terror and turmoil and an atmosphere of war. They scared me when I had them (I've had many dreams prove prophetic in the past), but I hoped they were only nightmares...nothing more. Early in the morning on September 11, my husband (who works an overnite shift) and I fell into bed at our usual time and went to sleep without a thought or care. But, for me, sleep was fitful and I awoke several different times for no reason...something felt very wrong to me, but I didn't know what it was. Shortly after 3pm, I finally crawled out of bed, groggy and exhausted, turned on the computer and got online. The first thing I saw on my ISP's homepage were news headlines screaming about the terrorist attacks on NYC and DC...I stared at the screen. Stunned, I wondered if this was yet another dream...just a nightmare, nothing more. The pictures of the Twin Towers burning resembled an ad for yet another action-adventure flick. It couldn't be real...could it? As I read the news stories, my heart sunk and my soul felt chilled. What was going on in my country? What was happening? This just could NOT be real. But it was real. It IS real. I feel such sadness for the thousands of innocents lost to some madman's way of "making a statement". So many people who were going about their day as usual...never suspecting it would be their last. So many families and friends without loved ones now. So many children without parents now. They never knew it was coming. It's heartbreaking. I believe that those responsible for this horror should pay for what they've done...but I also realize that cooler heads must prevail and there is NO sense in more innocent lives being sacrificed just to get back at those who did this. So, I will pray for peace and justice (not revenge)...most of all, I will pray for healing and love for all of those affected by the events of September 11, 2001.


Hatred Is Never Healed By Hatred,but By Love Alone Is Healed... Sep 18th. at 1:17:57 am UTC

Nelli (Mountain View, California US) Age: 24


Hatred is never healed by hatred,
but by love alone is healed.
This is an ancient and eternal law.
-Dhammapada, Ch 1

At 7 in the morning, I was woken up by the phone - my boyfriend, telling me to turn on the radio, because something really bad was happening. I tuned in as the first tower was collapsing. It took me the better part of the day to understand the enormity of this disaster. I have never been to New York, and have never paid much attention to pictures of it, so I had no vision in my mind of the twin towers. I don't have a television either, so I couldn't see the pictures. The horror was slow to creep up on me. Fear came first, fear that the attack wasn't over. I live near San Francisco Airport, as well as very close to the Nasa/Ames research center and Moffett military facility, so there were lots of potential targets for me to imagine. I sat on my sofa and listened to the news - the story repeated over and over, more painful and bewildering each time. At one point, it occured to me to notice the silence - along a flight path that sees at least 10 planes landing and another ten taking off at any given time, the sky was clear. The air was oddly still. That evening, my boyfriend picked me up and took me to his house, where we flipped from station to station, seeing the scenes of destruction replayed from different angles, with different narration, at different speeds. Now the full scope of this attack was clearer to me. My heart aches for those who have lost loved ones in this insane attack. The next day was surreal. No national day of mourning, no allowance for grief or shock. Back to work, back to school. America, we were told, must carry on. America must be strong. Wednesday was a day of confusion, shock and denial, but by thursday the reality had seeped in. People were sober, qiet, and red-eyed. We were all drawn closer to each other by our shared emotions.
American flags now hang from nearly every overpass, decorate most car antannas or windows, and wave from many front porches. I weep for the immense feeling of solidarity and connectedness and empathy that these flags symbolize - this merging of different and often estranged disparate people into one unified "us". There have been countless beautiful and moving gestures of compassion and unity from all across the nation. But I also weep because I can already see the "us against them" mentality developing, and I can hear the cries for blood. For some, Osama Bin Laden's death would be enough. For others, "bombing Afganistan back to the stone age" seems appropriate. For some few individuals, "us against them" means that it is open season on anyone that seems like they might be from somewhere in the middle east. 87% of Americans want us to go to war. People who speak of peace are scorned and ridiculed.
I beg all Americans to extend their compassion to people outside the United States, even to people who may hate us, but who are still innocent. There are some people out there, of course, who are not innocent. But I truly believe with all my heart that "hatred does not heal hatred", and that any action we take must be taken in the clear mind of reason, not in the fire of rage. Any action we take must be an enactment of justice, not a taking of revenge.
To those who are enduring the loss of their loved ones - my heart goes out to you, and at least once every day I shed tears in sympathy with your grief. May the God(s) of your heart hold you, and comfort you, and heal you.

May all beings enjoy happiness and the root of happiness.
May we be free of suffering and the root of suffering.
May we always dwell in the great equanimity, free from passion, agression and prejudice.


Dear Wren And Family!!! Merry Meet!i Send My Love, Blessings And... Sep 18th. at 1:29:12 am UTC

Jackie Bloomfield (Perth, Western Australia AU) Age: 38 - Email


Dear Wren and family!!! Merry meet!
I send my love, blessings and energy to all my fellow wiccans now, in their hour of disharmony. I also think that as a whole, we may just be able to stop this becoming bloodshed of unnatural proportions.I am doing a ritual on the next full moon to bind Bin Laden. I need your energies. I am a solitary and have 33 others so far. I hope you all can join our minds at this time. Merry part. Lady Roseeanna


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