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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,254,583  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Am Semi-new To Wicca (2 Yrs This Yule) And I Had... Sep 18th. at 1:36:22 am UTC

Andrea (Dbn Hts, Michigan US) Age: 23 - Email


I am semi-new to Wicca (2 yrs this Yule) and I had a big case of the willies at the start of all this. There are all these way-right-wing fundamentalists all around my place of business spouting death and destruction and armageddon, not to mention Pat Robertson blathering on about "it's America's own fault because of abortion and sin, blah blah blah"... that all made me a little jittery at first. And then I had some quiet meditation and thought, how could any loving deity cast anyone down who only wants peace and unity and love among his/her people? And with that simple thought, I realized that I have never had more faith in my chosen religion than I have at this moment. When I first was trying to deal with all this, I popped into a pagan room on AOL and found people screaming for blood, and engaging in nasty fights with one another and I thought, this is not what we are all about. And then I came to this site and found the big goddess hug I needed. I hope that everyone who has lost someone in particular will be at least a little comforted to know that my thoughts and love are with them. I also hope that everyone else (those of you who, like me, were not directly touched by the attack but who are afraid or unsure) knows that I'm here with you, just one more person who wants a world where love and peace will quietly rise up and bring evil to its knees.

All my love,
Andrea

"Who could say you're not simply wonderful?
Who could ever harm you?
Sleep now,
You're my little girl"
---Tori Amos


On Tuesday Night, I Went To Work With Heavy Shoulders And Teary... Sep 18th. at 3:47:07 am UTC

RubyMoon (Ogden, Utah US) Age: 40


On Tuesday night, I went to work with heavy shoulders and teary eyes.
My heart broke a thousand times as the news of tragedy went on...
My whole body went numb...and I never been so sad in my life...
(since I lost my parents in a tragic car accident in 1984)
And...I am furious...because I couldn't do anything about it...
Once again, I asked myself: How could this happened?..
Where does my fault lie?...

Blessed Be,
RubyMoon


I Sit And Stare At This Blank Field, So Sure That There... Sep 18th. at 3:51:45 am UTC

Raina (Deputy, Indiana US) Age: 21 - Email


I sit and stare at this blank field, so sure that there is something I need to say and yet suddently at a loss for words. Every day since tuesday I have come here with the intention of posting, of letting some of what is inside out. And every day I stare at this white screen and shake my head.

What can be said that hasn't already been? There is no thought or opinion, no emotion or pain, no viewpoint on this tragedy that is mine alone to post. And then I realised that was the point. That this is a shared tragedy. That hundreds of thousands of people are sharing the feeling I have in the pit of my stomach. That this didn't just happen to those poor people whos lives were cut short by this unforgivable act. Or to their families, their friends. This happened to us all. Every single one of us. We all mourn.

There is a kind of comfort in that. We mourn in different ways. Some light candles. Some say prayers. Some cry our for peace. Most cry out for justice. Some unfortunately cry out for war. But their anger is just their way of mourning.

We weep as a country, all faiths all colours all races. There have been rumblings, the few who would divide us when what we need most is to unite. But as a whole we have pushed them aside and dismissed their words as the fear and hatred they were. We can only hope that once the dust clears, once the tears are wiped away and we begin to heal as a nation, that the unity that we have found in our grief isn't put aside as well.


I Read With Joy And Sadness The Thoughts Of Zeyra, Who Is... Sep 18th. at 4:04:50 am UTC

Greine (Covina, California US) Age: 55


I read with joy and sadness the thoughts of Zeyra, who is wise beyond her years. Hatred and disunity is not the way to vanquish terrorism. Isaac Bonewits wisely calls us to send our healing thoughts and hope to the victims in New York, and to their loved ones, as well as those courageous men and women working tirelessly to put out the fires, dig through the rubble, and try to keep hope alive. I send love and kindness as well to the animals -- to those frightened pets who were abandoned, either in the rush to evacuate, or waiting at home for the master or mistress who is somewhere in or beneath the rubble that was the beautiful World Trade Center; also the wonderful dogs who search for signs of life, or death, and a pat on the head for the dog who already died of exhaustion doing his brave work.

I read with horror, of those who would tar all decent Muslims, or dark-skinned middle eastern people of many religions, with the sins of the monsters who perpetrated this horror upon us. We must increase our work for calm, and extend the umbrella of our protection to these innocents. I firmly reject the statement, whether made by a Christian minister or by a pagan writing in this forum, that this calamity is due to any design or plan, of any god or goddess (and I would deem any god who could do such a thing unworthy of respect, let alone worship).

I waked on 9/11 at an unusually early hour; normally I am the one who sleeps long past the alarm clock, and this was at least 3 hours before my ordinary waking time even when I'm not late. Something drew me downstairs, where I had some coffee & idly turned on the TV news just in time to see the first bulletins from the WTC, and subsequently the unimaginable sight of a plane deliberately ramming into the 2nd tower. From that point on, I operated sheerly on instinct for several days -- sending out wave upon wave of healing and hope, followed by a fervent call for the monsters among us to be exposed and receive their just punishment.

It has been a relief to hear from my sister who lives and works in midtown Manhattan, even with no phones she managed to get an email out early the first morning so I would know that she was safe.

Friday morning I received an urgent call from my son in Florida. Gabrielle had hit (we hadn't even heard about it out here in California) and my youngest grandson was injured in an accident; mom's healing energies were needed. I turned my attention to this personal matter, which came to a good conclusion; the baby was stitched up & soon running around as chipper as ever. But it brought me back to reality, that life goes on, and in our zeal to deal with the terror that has struck us we must not forget to do the everyday things that we normally do, whether it be tending a garden or caring for our pets, or any other constructive work.

Life goes on, and we are made stronger by it. I look at the photos of candles burning all around the world, of carpets of flowers, and am cheered. God/dess bless and protect you all.


At My Little Altar...there Shines A Red, White, And Blue Candles... Sep 18th. at 4:18:31 am UTC

SeptemberSong (Ogden, Utah US) Age: 40


At my little altar...
There shines a red, white, and blue candles...
Along with yellow for the missing to be found;
And black for the guilty to banish in peace!

Lord and Lady be with us as always...

Blessed Be,
SeptemberSong


Much Love To My Fellow Witches, Wiccans And Pagans. Two Weeks Ago... Sep 18th. at 4:38:51 am UTC

Pentalpha (Brooklyn, New York US) Age: 51


Much love to my fellow Witches, Wiccans and Pagans.

Two weeks ago, Morrigan, the Celtic Goddess of war, visited me in the dreamstate. She appeared as statuary, and didnot speak. The dream left me puzzled, since I have never worked with the Celtic pantheon. Looking forward to starting Kundalini Yoga classes, and receiving Reiki First and Second Degree attunements, I was focused on health, peace and healing, not war! The horrific events of the past week have put the dream in perspective. I am a nurse. I have dedicated the past twenty-five years of my life to healing and the care of Elders. It saddens me that I must now focus my will, resolve and energy towards supporting our Warriors and the new horrors they will be asked to face, no matter how just the cause. But make no mistake. I WILL support them anyway I can. Therefore, I am calling on Maat, Sekhmet, Freya, Morrigan, Hecate, and Kali-Ma to protect them and bring a swift, just and total victory against the enemies of all humankind.

Joined in love of country and the Goddess,
Pentalpha


As Are Many Others, I Am Totally Overwhelmed By These Events... Have... Sep 18th. at 7:23:53 am UTC

Starwalker (Havelock, North Carolina US) Age: 53 - Email


As are many others, I am totally overwhelmed by these events... have been looking for ways to express my myriad of feelings. We are moving, and I am frustrated that our flag is "in a box, in storage somewhere" and there are none to be bought here (I live near several military bases).

We have a Pagan Pride Day coming up on Saturday in New Bern, NC... on the same weekend as the "purple ribbon" campaign... I am hoping to be able to locate red, white, blue AND purple ribbons... from my craft supplies (IF I can find the box!) and/or the store... and I will be wearing a corsage made from all four colors, to say "I am a Pagan American."

Also, I have decided, with Samhain coming up, to memorialize those who have died by making a paper crane, one for each victim... with the name of a victim written on each crane... to be burned within an appropriate ritual on Samhain, for the peace of their spirits, and with prayers that they not have died in vain. I suspect I will have more cranes to fold after the end of next month... this will be an ongoing thing for me, and next years' cranes will go up during next year's Smahain ritual.


Dearones; Bless Your Hearts And Souls.something To Think About;afghanistan Is Like... Sep 18th. at 8:07:22 am UTC

sedina (Hagaman, New York US) Age: 46


Dearones; bless your hearts and souls.something to think about;Afghanistan is like a person on death row. they have nothing to lose and they act in desperation. Previous wars om thier country has already turned it into rubble .there is not much more we can do to them as a country. Be well sedina


I Still Cannot Believe What Has Changed In A Week. Fires Burning... Sep 18th. at 8:08:51 am UTC

jenn (philly, Pennsylvania US) Age: 23


I still cannot believe what has changed in a week. fires burning, buildings gone, lives lost, warships in the ocean near my parents home town. yet in the midst of all of this, there is some good. people coming together like never in my lifetime, united, with a common bond-love of country, love of our fellow man, and a need to in some way move on. for many of us in the northeast (and i suspect the rest of the country and the world) life stopped tuesday. we walked through the day in a haze, and the horrors of the day are still unimaginable. but all of us who are fortunate to be alive today must work to move on. as hard as it is, our lives have not stopped because of these events, and now we all work to put our lives back together. of course things will change- there will be a response, and our country will never be the same, but for now, it is the normal routines of daily life that keep me sane. i made a very hard decision this weekend when i decided to get married sunday as had been planned for many months, and everyone involved was glad the wedding occurred. it was, for a few hours, a way for us to celebrate life in the midst of tragedy. they cannot destroy us, we are strong. if we continue to live and love in the way we know we will prevail. may the goddess and god bless every one of us and keep us strong through the hard times to come.
-Blessed Be


The Belly To Do What Needs To Be Donei've Been Hearing... Sep 18th. at 8:23:24 am UTC

Tamim Ansary () Age: 45


The Belly to do what needs to be done

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500, 000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours.

Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

"Even monkeys fall out of trees" - japanese proverb


Another Prayer To Bring Comfort. This Is Especially For Those Who Went... Sep 19th. at 12:50:42 am UTC

M. Macha NightMare (San Rafael, California US) Age: 58 - Email


Another prayer to bring comfort. This is especially for those who went down in UA 93 in Pennsylvania and for the firefighters and other rescue workers killed in the collapse of the WTC. This prayer may be shared, as long as full attribution is included (i.e., author and source).

Blessings,
Macha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"For One Who Has Died To Save Others"

You who have made your life an offering,
who have laid down your sweet flesh
that others may taste life (freedom)
you have become like the sun
whose radiance sustains us.
You have become like grain
cut down to feed us
May your rise
As the buried seed rises

May the Mother of All
gather you in.
May He who falls and rises
guide your way.
May you return to us
when we are afraid
and teach us to be fearless, generous,
and kind.
May we love our lives the more
for your sacrifice
and may we learn to love
as you have loved
so that the boundaries of self and life
dissolve
and the night sky is filled with stars.

by Starhawk
from THE PAGAN BOOK OF LIVING AND DYING


It Is Hard To Believe That Pagans, Particularly Witches, Have Become Participants... Sep 19th. at 9:24:57 am UTC

Mark S. Schlachter (Cincinnati) Age: 54 - Email


It is hard to believe that Pagans, particularly witches, have become participants in the rhetoric calling for retaliation.

Witches are the wise, the healers the recipients of centuries of religious intolerance and persecution. We must be true to our faith. We must speak and act with reason and not out of anger or fear. We must reach out and touch in love. We must work our magic to comfort and heal.

Certainly, we must do no harm.

Whether a candle is green, red, black, blue, yellow, orange or white the flame burns with the same bright light. Let us light our candles and bring light to this dark act.

If we are witches we must act like witches -- we are needed.


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