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Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001
911 America: Talking Through The Terror...
Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.
What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.
WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.
| Reponses: There are 969 responses posted to this question.
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| Dearones; Bless Your Hearts And Souls.something To Think About;afghanistan Is Like... ||Sep 18th. at 8:07:22 am UTC|
|sedina (Hagaman, New York US) ||Age: 46 |
Dearones; bless your hearts and souls.something to think about;Afghanistan is like a person on death row. they have nothing to lose and they act in desperation. Previous wars om thier country has already turned it into rubble .there is not much more we can do to them as a country. Be well sedina
| I Still Cannot Believe What Has Changed In A Week. Fires Burning... ||Sep 18th. at 8:08:51 am UTC|
|jenn (philly, Pennsylvania US) ||Age: 23 |
I still cannot believe what has changed in a week. fires burning, buildings gone, lives lost, warships in the ocean near my parents home town. yet in the midst of all of this, there is some good. people coming together like never in my lifetime, united, with a common bond-love of country, love of our fellow man, and a need to in some way move on. for many of us in the northeast (and i suspect the rest of the country and the world) life stopped tuesday. we walked through the day in a haze, and the horrors of the day are still unimaginable. but all of us who are fortunate to be alive today must work to move on. as hard as it is, our lives have not stopped because of these events, and now we all work to put our lives back together. of course things will change- there will be a response, and our country will never be the same, but for now, it is the normal routines of daily life that keep me sane. i made a very hard decision this weekend when i decided to get married sunday as had been planned for many months, and everyone involved was glad the wedding occurred. it was, for a few hours, a way for us to celebrate life in the midst of tragedy. they cannot destroy us, we are strong. if we continue to live and love in the way we know we will prevail. may the goddess and god bless every one of us and keep us strong through the hard times to come.
| The Belly To Do What Needs To Be Donei've Been Hearing... ||Sep 18th. at 8:23:24 am UTC|
The Belly to do what needs to be done
I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."
And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.
Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500, 000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.
We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.
New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.
So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.
And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours.
Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
"Even monkeys fall out of trees" - japanese proverb
| Another Prayer To Bring Comfort. This Is Especially For Those Who Went... ||Sep 19th. at 12:50:42 am UTC|
|M. Macha NightMare (San Rafael, California US) ||Age: 58 - Email |
Another prayer to bring comfort. This is especially for those who went down in UA 93 in Pennsylvania and for the firefighters and other rescue workers killed in the collapse of the WTC. This prayer may be shared, as long as full attribution is included (i.e., author and source).
"For One Who Has Died To Save Others"
You who have made your life an offering,
who have laid down your sweet flesh
that others may taste life (freedom)
you have become like the sun
whose radiance sustains us.
You have become like grain
cut down to feed us
May your rise
As the buried seed rises
May the Mother of All
gather you in.
May He who falls and rises
guide your way.
May you return to us
when we are afraid
and teach us to be fearless, generous,
May we love our lives the more
for your sacrifice
and may we learn to love
as you have loved
so that the boundaries of self and life
and the night sky is filled with stars.
from THE PAGAN BOOK OF LIVING AND DYING
| It Is Hard To Believe That Pagans, Particularly Witches, Have Become Participants... ||Sep 19th. at 9:24:57 am UTC|
|Mark S. Schlachter (Cincinnati) ||Age: 54 - Email |
It is hard to believe that Pagans, particularly witches, have become participants in the rhetoric calling for retaliation.
Witches are the wise, the healers the recipients of centuries of religious intolerance and persecution. We must be true to our faith. We must speak and act with reason and not out of anger or fear. We must reach out and touch in love. We must work our magic to comfort and heal.
Certainly, we must do no harm.
Whether a candle is green, red, black, blue, yellow, orange or white the flame burns with the same bright light. Let us light our candles and bring light to this dark act.
If we are witches we must act like witches -- we are needed.
| Watching The Grief Unfolding From A Distance Here In England, And I... ||Sep 19th. at 10:40:09 am UTC|
|Tony Fawcett (Nottingham, England UK) ||Age: 21 - Email |
Watching the grief unfolding from a distance here in England, and I am appalled by the amount of people who want "vengence" or an all out "war". I find this deeply saddening. It can't be human nature to watch several thousand friends and colleauges die and then want mant thousands more to die because of a want for revenge!
I call for all like minded folk out there to pray for all those who are helping in the rescue efforts (modern day "saints"). I am praying every night in front of my altar-nothing fancy, just pouring out my thoughts and emotions and I urge others to do the same.
Also I would ask you all to join me on the next full moon in a ritual to help prevent outbreak of war and to keep the peace.
Revenge and guns aren't whats needed here-they only make it worse.
"Perhaps the noblest form of vengence is to keep the peace"
| I Heard This On The Radio On Wyxp (92.3 K-rock) On My... ||Sep 19th. at 10:40:32 am UTC|
|Ciarrai (Cental NJ, New Jersey US) ||Age: 34 |
I heard this on the radio on WYXP (92.3 K-Rock) on my way home from work yesterday. Not realizing right away that I owned the CD, this song has taken on a new meaning. The accompanying music is just breathtaking. I can't stop listening to it. I promised to stay away from the television. Now I'm listening to this.
NEW YORK from U2-ALL THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE BEHIND
Music by U-2, Lyrics by Bono
PolyGram Int'l Music Publishing B.V.
2000 Universal International Music B.V.
In New York freekdom looks like too many choices
In New York I found a friend to drown out the other voices
Voices on the cell phone
Voices of the hard sell
Voices down the stairwell
In New York, just got a place in New York
In New York summers get hot, well into the hundreds
You can't walk around the block without a change of clothing
Hot as a hairdryer in your face
Hot as a handbag and a can of mace
In New York, just got a place in New York
New York, New York
In New York you can forget, forget how to sit still
Tell yourself you can stay in
But it's down to Alphaville
New York, New York, New York
New York, New York, New York
The Irish have been coming here for years
Feel like the own the place
They got the airport, city hall, concrete, asphalt, they even got the police
Irish, Italian, Jews and Hispanics
Religious nuts, political fanatics in the stew
Living happily like me and you
That's where I lost you...New York
New York, New York
New York, New York
In New York I lost it all to you and your vices
Still I'm staying on to figure out my mid life crisis
I hit an iceberg in my life
But you know I'm afloat
You lose your balance, lose your wife
In the queue for the lifeboat
You got to put the women and children first
But you've got an unquenchable thrist for New York
New York, New York
New York, New York
In the stillness of the evening
When the sun has had its day
I heard your voice a-whispering
Come away child
New York, New York
| My Son's Birthday Was Shattered By The News Of Terroism Hitting America... ||Sep 19th. at 4:56:44 pm UTC|
|Torquil (wrights corner, Illinois US) ||Age: 32 |
My son's birthday was shattered by the news of terroism hitting America. He came home and cried on my shoulder and asked WHY? I looked into his eyes and knew there was a part of him that understood and a part that was still lost. But I tried to explain that some times our love for each other was not enough to stop everything bad. He asked if he could light a candle too and I said yes and let him pray in his own way for peace. And we stand everynight at sunset in our yard and he makes a wish on a star for peace and love. Then he gives me a big hug and says mom that hug is big enough for all the people who won't get to hug loved ones again, and big enough for the people who have not given up hope and continue to look for survivors, it tells them THANK YOU!
| I Share The Same Roller Coaster Emotions Of All, Still Feel A... ||Sep 19th. at 5:02:59 pm UTC|
|Gypsy Hendrixson (Fort Worth, Texas US) ||Age: 57 - Email |
*I share the same roller coaster emotions of all, still feel a deep sense of sadness, loss, shock.
Candles burn in our Pagan Home daily. We pray at our altar. We ask Goddess/God for their wisdoms, protection, and world peace. *We went to a wonderful prayer service at a nearby Unitarian Church. The little church was packed and overflowing with every race, religion, all joining hands!
The feeling of unity was SO STRONG! Every place I go, I see so many flags and I am SO PROUD to be American! I live in the DFW area of Texas and the outpouring of love, help, blood, donations, skin needed for burn victims has been just overwhelming. I believe this is a huge wake up call to all of the world to come together in peace, love, and saving our beautiful planet!
This Friday night at the same little Unitarian Church, we plan to attend a Native American Indian prayer circle. *We too fly our flags on our home, vehicles, wear ribbons, give and give donations, do all we know to do and lots of prayer! Stand up, be proud, be strong. Hug your family, neighbors, co workers, a sad looking stranger, for we are actually all ONE RACE...THE HUMAN RACE. WE are all children of the Great Mother! Hug your children, speak with your children daily, and assure them they are safe and protected! Reach out to your community, make a difference.
I'd like to hear from other Pagans, especially in Orlando, Florida area, as my daughter, grandkids live there and we hope to sell out, move to Orlando SOON and would like to pen pal with Orlando Pagans...before we move there so we will KNOW other Pagans to help us adjust to a new place!
We've visited the Unitarian Church, Orlando, went to a drum circle, really enjoyed it.
May the ancient ones guide and protect us all! Blessed Be To All, Gypsy Hendrixson, FW Texas
PS: My husband served in Viet Nam war (He was in the Navy)...this was also our generation that went through those horrors too. Recent events brings back memories of those times and we grieve...again!
I just can't believe all of us are going through such horrors again, but somehow, it seems WORSE this time, more shocking, scary, sadder!!!! Pray for future!
| What Depresses Me The Most Is The Fact That People Who Are... ||Sep 19th. at 5:18:06 pm UTC|
|Alcyone (Minneapolis, Minnesota US) ||Age: 23 |
What depresses me the most is the fact that people who are normally intelligent, thinking individuals are willing to support a course of action that hasn't been decided yet. I hope to see a large crowd at tomorrow's peace rally on campus.
| All I Feel Is Horror That Humans Could Do This To One... ||Sep 19th. at 7:11:27 pm UTC|
|Sophia (Bromley, Kent, England, England UK) ||Age: 35 - Email |
All I feel is horror that Humans could do this to one another, I pray the Goddess help us all through time of need, and grant us wisdom and understanding.
| Dear Friends:one Week Later, I Am Still Grieving And Torn, Not... ||Sep 19th. at 8:16:11 pm UTC|
|Suzanne Morrigan Burns (Boston, Massachusetts US) ||Age: 37 - Email |
One week later, I am still grieving and torn, not only by the hideousness of this attack and its aftermath, but by the growing awareness that more such attacks could be in the making. I am terrified.
I too am deeply troubled by the idea of people celebrating and laughing about this kind of massive suffering, but I also cringe when I hear Bush speaks in terms of a "crusade". Does he really not know how loaded that term is for Muslims and how much offense he is causing?
I also cringe as I read through the many listserves I am on and hear people in our own community speaking derisively toward one another, using hateful, loaded, and judgmental terms. If I hear another person call someone a "fluffy bunny" for wanting peace, or "hate-driven and violent" simply for taking seriously the reality that we may have to take strong measures to defend ourselves, I think I am going to pop! None of this is doing anyone any good. We are turning against each other and acting like bickering children, when we could be channeling our energies for wisdom and peace. For the most part this terrible event has brought out the best in us. We have come closer together. But there are some, unfortunately, in which this disaster has brought out the worst.
I grieve for this.
In the words of Auden, we must love one another or die. Please, please, everyone, take this to heart.
Whatever the answer is, whatever our next step must be, whatever our feeling may be about this mess, you have find your core and hold on to it and not let be overwhelmed by your emotions, whatever they may be.
I am begging the people of our community to please speak with more kindness and open-mindedness to one another.
Give the other person some credit. Listen just a little bit more.
It is not naive to work magic for peace or to turn the other cheekŃand nor does preparing for war and facing the fact that we are actively under attack make one a raging hateful bigot who cares nothing for the victims of war. We are in a grave situation here, and we need to look at all of our options, and stand together. The people of Afghanistan are the most helpless victims in this warŃI hope that our leaders will see that it is in fact in our interests to protect them.
If we are to go to war, I hope to the Goddess that we will do so in the spirit of Athena, goddess of wisdom and justice as well as battle, and not in the spirit of Eris, who brings discord, chaos, and division. Bill Schultz, Executive Director of Amnesty International expressed it well in a recent letter:
"To get to grieving, we must go through anger. And to get to justice, we must go through grieving. Because, É Every day we are not mourning is a day we will be taking vengeance, and vengeance is different from justice."
Please let's talk less of revenge and focus our energies on protecting the innocent and cherishing the memory of our departed. Ask our god and goddess for the wisdom we need to make the right decision. Don't make fun of those who call for peace and understanding-- if we do not have that it our hearts, what do we have? What has happened to our souls?
Thank you for listening to this ramble.
Blessed Be, Suzanne
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