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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 8,550,790  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Watching The Grief Unfolding From A Distance Here In England, And I... Sep 19th. at 10:40:09 am EDT

Tony Fawcett (Nottingham, England UK) Age: 21 - Email


Watching the grief unfolding from a distance here in England, and I am appalled by the amount of people who want "vengence" or an all out "war". I find this deeply saddening. It can't be human nature to watch several thousand friends and colleauges die and then want mant thousands more to die because of a want for revenge!
I call for all like minded folk out there to pray for all those who are helping in the rescue efforts (modern day "saints"). I am praying every night in front of my altar-nothing fancy, just pouring out my thoughts and emotions and I urge others to do the same.
Also I would ask you all to join me on the next full moon in a ritual to help prevent outbreak of war and to keep the peace.
Revenge and guns aren't whats needed here-they only make it worse.
"Perhaps the noblest form of vengence is to keep the peace"

Blessed be

Tony Fawcett


I Heard This On The Radio On Wyxp (92.3 K-rock) On My... Sep 19th. at 10:40:32 am EDT

Ciarrai (Cental NJ, New Jersey US) Age: 34


I heard this on the radio on WYXP (92.3 K-Rock) on my way home from work yesterday. Not realizing right away that I owned the CD, this song has taken on a new meaning. The accompanying music is just breathtaking. I can't stop listening to it. I promised to stay away from the television. Now I'm listening to this.

NEW YORK from U2-ALL THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE BEHIND
Music by U-2, Lyrics by Bono
PolyGram Int'l Music Publishing B.V.
2000 Universal International Music B.V.

NEW YORK

In New York freekdom looks like too many choices
In New York I found a friend to drown out the other voices
Voices on the cell phone
Voices of the hard sell
Voices down the stairwell
In New York, just got a place in New York

In New York summers get hot, well into the hundreds
You can't walk around the block without a change of clothing
Hot as a hairdryer in your face
Hot as a handbag and a can of mace
In New York, just got a place in New York
New York, New York

In New York you can forget, forget how to sit still
Tell yourself you can stay in
But it's down to Alphaville

New York, New York, New York
New York, New York, New York

The Irish have been coming here for years
Feel like the own the place
They got the airport, city hall, concrete, asphalt, they even got the police
Irish, Italian, Jews and Hispanics
Religious nuts, political fanatics in the stew
Living happily like me and you
That's where I lost you...New York

New York, New York
New York, New York

In New York I lost it all to you and your vices
Still I'm staying on to figure out my mid life crisis
I hit an iceberg in my life
But you know I'm afloat
You lose your balance, lose your wife
In the queue for the lifeboat

You got to put the women and children first
But you've got an unquenchable thrist for New York

New York, New York
New York, New York

In the stillness of the evening
When the sun has had its day
I heard your voice a-whispering
Come away child

New York, New York


My Son's Birthday Was Shattered By The News Of Terroism Hitting America... Sep 19th. at 4:56:44 pm EDT

Torquil (wrights corner, Illinois US) Age: 32


My son's birthday was shattered by the news of terroism hitting America. He came home and cried on my shoulder and asked WHY? I looked into his eyes and knew there was a part of him that understood and a part that was still lost. But I tried to explain that some times our love for each other was not enough to stop everything bad. He asked if he could light a candle too and I said yes and let him pray in his own way for peace. And we stand everynight at sunset in our yard and he makes a wish on a star for peace and love. Then he gives me a big hug and says mom that hug is big enough for all the people who won't get to hug loved ones again, and big enough for the people who have not given up hope and continue to look for survivors, it tells them THANK YOU!


I Share The Same Roller Coaster Emotions Of All, Still Feel A... Sep 19th. at 5:02:59 pm EDT

Gypsy Hendrixson (Fort Worth, Texas US) Age: 57 - Email


*I share the same roller coaster emotions of all, still feel a deep sense of sadness, loss, shock.
Candles burn in our Pagan Home daily. We pray at our altar. We ask Goddess/God for their wisdoms, protection, and world peace. *We went to a wonderful prayer service at a nearby Unitarian Church. The little church was packed and overflowing with every race, religion, all joining hands!
The feeling of unity was SO STRONG! Every place I go, I see so many flags and I am SO PROUD to be American! I live in the DFW area of Texas and the outpouring of love, help, blood, donations, skin needed for burn victims has been just overwhelming. I believe this is a huge wake up call to all of the world to come together in peace, love, and saving our beautiful planet!
This Friday night at the same little Unitarian Church, we plan to attend a Native American Indian prayer circle. *We too fly our flags on our home, vehicles, wear ribbons, give and give donations, do all we know to do and lots of prayer! Stand up, be proud, be strong. Hug your family, neighbors, co workers, a sad looking stranger, for we are actually all ONE RACE...THE HUMAN RACE. WE are all children of the Great Mother! Hug your children, speak with your children daily, and assure them they are safe and protected! Reach out to your community, make a difference.
I'd like to hear from other Pagans, especially in Orlando, Florida area, as my daughter, grandkids live there and we hope to sell out, move to Orlando SOON and would like to pen pal with Orlando Pagans...before we move there so we will KNOW other Pagans to help us adjust to a new place!
We've visited the Unitarian Church, Orlando, went to a drum circle, really enjoyed it.
May the ancient ones guide and protect us all! Blessed Be To All, Gypsy Hendrixson, FW Texas

PS: My husband served in Viet Nam war (He was in the Navy)...this was also our generation that went through those horrors too. Recent events brings back memories of those times and we grieve...again!
I just can't believe all of us are going through such horrors again, but somehow, it seems WORSE this time, more shocking, scary, sadder!!!! Pray for future!


What Depresses Me The Most Is The Fact That People Who Are... Sep 19th. at 5:18:06 pm EDT

Alcyone (Minneapolis, Minnesota US) Age: 23


What depresses me the most is the fact that people who are normally intelligent, thinking individuals are willing to support a course of action that hasn't been decided yet. I hope to see a large crowd at tomorrow's peace rally on campus.


All I Feel Is Horror That Humans Could Do This To One... Sep 19th. at 7:11:27 pm EDT

Sophia (Bromley, Kent, England, England UK) Age: 35 - Email


All I feel is horror that Humans could do this to one another, I pray the Goddess help us all through time of need, and grant us wisdom and understanding.


Dear Friends:one Week Later, I Am Still Grieving And Torn, Not... Sep 19th. at 8:16:11 pm EDT

Suzanne Morrigan Burns (Boston, Massachusetts US) Age: 37 - Email


Dear Friends:

One week later, I am still grieving and torn, not only by the hideousness of this attack and its aftermath, but by the growing awareness that more such attacks could be in the making. I am terrified.

I too am deeply troubled by the idea of people celebrating and laughing about this kind of massive suffering, but I also cringe when I hear Bush speaks in terms of a "crusade". Does he really not know how loaded that term is for Muslims and how much offense he is causing?

I also cringe as I read through the many listserves I am on and hear people in our own community speaking derisively toward one another, using hateful, loaded, and judgmental terms. If I hear another person call someone a "fluffy bunny" for wanting peace, or "hate-driven and violent" simply for taking seriously the reality that we may have to take strong measures to defend ourselves, I think I am going to pop! None of this is doing anyone any good. We are turning against each other and acting like bickering children, when we could be channeling our energies for wisdom and peace. For the most part this terrible event has brought out the best in us. We have come closer together. But there are some, unfortunately, in which this disaster has brought out the worst.

I grieve for this.

In the words of Auden, we must love one another or die. Please, please, everyone, take this to heart.

Whatever the answer is, whatever our next step must be, whatever our feeling may be about this mess, you have find your core and hold on to it and not let be overwhelmed by your emotions, whatever they may be.
I am begging the people of our community to please speak with more kindness and open-mindedness to one another.

Give the other person some credit. Listen just a little bit more.

It is not naive to work magic for peace or to turn the other cheekŃand nor does preparing for war and facing the fact that we are actively under attack make one a raging hateful bigot who cares nothing for the victims of war. We are in a grave situation here, and we need to look at all of our options, and stand together. The people of Afghanistan are the most helpless victims in this warŃI hope that our leaders will see that it is in fact in our interests to protect them.

If we are to go to war, I hope to the Goddess that we will do so in the spirit of Athena, goddess of wisdom and justice as well as battle, and not in the spirit of Eris, who brings discord, chaos, and division. Bill Schultz, Executive Director of Amnesty International expressed it well in a recent letter:

"To get to grieving, we must go through anger. And to get to justice, we must go through grieving. Because, É Every day we are not mourning is a day we will be taking vengeance, and vengeance is different from justice."

Please let's talk less of revenge and focus our energies on protecting the innocent and cherishing the memory of our departed. Ask our god and goddess for the wisdom we need to make the right decision. Don't make fun of those who call for peace and understanding-- if we do not have that it our hearts, what do we have? What has happened to our souls?

Thank you for listening to this ramble.

Blessed Be, Suzanne


Hello Again' This Is The Second Time I Have Posted. I Keep... Sep 19th. at 8:42:21 pm EDT

Laddeewolf Stormrider (Granby, Missouri US) Age: 46 - Email


hello again' this is the second time I have posted. I keep reading and reading. I hear the anger and hate in your average americans. I dont agree with that. I here the reluctance to fight or avenge our losses among the pagans. I dont agree with that either. Pagans are saying that we are rushing to war. I dont see that. We are investigating the feasibility of many options. We are hoping that the taliban surrenders this man. I would like to see the Taliban surrender it's self.
We arent moving fast enough for the rest.

I dont think that revenge is a good thing, but this is more a preventitive measure isnt it? It will be a long time before someone trys again.If we succeed, It will show them that they must pay when they choose to dance. We keep talking about the innocent that will die-are there really any? If we have all lived many lives, perhaps this is their Karma. No one dies until its their time, do they? I know that many pagans disaprove of casting spells to eliminate this man. Is it not better to eliminate the one, than the many. The Goddess and the God are more than capable of taking out only those to blame arent they. We only have to ask-if it is meant to be, It will happen. If not It wont. As for the law of three-Does it even apply? There is Balance to be considered. Sending them teddy bears and flowers wont do it this time. Theyll do it again, if we do. They already consider us cowards. If we do nothing to them, Do you think theyll stop cause were so nice? No. They'll sacrifice more of their own and do it again. Only next time it will be a hundred thousand. When is enough enough? We have to be willing to sacrifice ourselves to stop them. I dont want to offend anyone, but I'll keep on using Magick to get to him, if it will save someone else. I dont feel angry or vengefull. I dont even hate these people. I just want to stop them from acting again. How you feel is as important as what you are trying to do. Why you are doing it is just as important too. Perhaps this happened because it took something like this to make us finally do something. What purpose could the senseless death of so many be for. I have no answers, but lots of questions. Is there any real "right answer", or only opinions. I am a pagan, but I am also an american. I wonder how many spirits will wonder New York looking for what they lost?


Since I First Posted My Worries About The Metro-detroit Arab Comunity Last... Sep 20th. at 9:43:18 am EDT

Airsucker (Walled Lake, Michigan US) Age: 28 - Email


Since I first posted my worries about the Metro-Detroit Arab comunity last week, I have been glad that there was no rioting. The impact here has been more subtle.

Next door to the Borders where I work, there is a restaurant called Anita's Kitchen. They serve Lebanese and American food and they are very nice people. Their business has dropped off quite a bit since September 13. Perhaps where you live, you know a nice little Middle-Eastern restaurant. Maybe you should stop by for a bite to eat so they don't go out of business for something that isn't their fault.

Please, help the people in your community too. Maybe you can teach someone that olive skin tone doesn't mean Bin Laden terrorist.


I Had To Get Away This Last Weekend To Collect My Thoughts... Sep 20th. at 10:06:15 am EDT

Ambrosius (Boston, Massachusetts US) Age: 35


I had to get away this last weekend to collect my thoughts. I returned to Provincetown, Massachusetts where I first experienced the fullness of the Goddess many years ago. For those of you who don't know of 'Ptown', it's a resort town at the edge of Cape Code catering to the gay/lesbian/transgender/bisexual community. In all times, even before the incident, one could walk down the mains street hand in hand with a lover, a person of color, a person of ambiguous gender orientation. It has always been a place of solace and hope for me, especially when I see small children playing with children of other cultures and discussing their two mommas or two pappas.

But a miracle occurred there on Friday night. As the town began preparing for its candlelight vigil on the night of mournong, at precisely 7 pm, when the vigil began, a huge rainbow suddenly appeared and stretched from the harbor across the width of the town to descend into the Atlantic on the north side. The rainbow seemed to embrace and shield the peace loving populace below, and I knew I was witnessing a miracle: a direct sign from the God and Goddess united in a loving signal to us below. No one in Ptown will ever forget that miracle, and my hope is renewed, my faith strengthened, and wounds a little closer to healing.


The Dust Has Settled A Bit, Not Only At The Scene Of... Sep 20th. at 3:08:07 pm EDT

Ironwood (Hidden Valley, Arizona US) Age: 48


The dust has settled a bit, not only at the scene of tragedy, but in our minds as well. Wow. All the emotions in our family have been on a week-long roller coaster, beaten to pieces.

The second day after I went out to buy a lunch treat for all those I work with. They are involved in the news business, and a lot of long hours and disrupted schedules have just run them ragged.

I went to a local sandwich shop run by an Arab family, to find the cops there investigating the loss of the owners car windows due to some dummy with rocks. Damn the foolishness.

They were still open, so I got the goods from them, and noticed they were playing our radio station in the store. I found this a poignant example of how we all depend on each other here in the US.

While on the ironic, no one argues over shooting a rabid dog. I talked to the owner a bit about this very subject, and he suggested we (the US) dispatch those respomsible quickly and without mercy. This is the reason he and his family is here in the first place, getting away from those that will kill you for just disagreeing with them. It seems no one there has the guts to do that...

I can certainly identify with him on that, as we Pagans are not tolerated by those extremists, either.

We all have hope the friction will be lessend with vision and insight in whatever method is used. Something has to give...There are too many pushing on this.


An Open Letter To He Who Hides Behind The Casket Of Innocents... Sep 20th. at 7:38:10 pm EDT

Randy Wayne White (Dallas, Texas US) Age: 44


An Open Letter To He Who Hides Behind the Casket of Innocents

On Tuesday morning, September 11th, 2001, you delivered onto our nation yet another public invitation, and then, characteristically, fled into the shadows. Because your invitation was written on the flesh of innocents, and with the blood of our heroes, it demands a response.

A week ago, most of us would have declined out of indifference, out of ignorance. We were an insulated people, secure in the triumphs of our forefathers.

Not today. Not ever again. In the last few hours, we have aged a generation. Our indifference lies beneath rubble in a great city, so your invitation - as much as we loath your methods - is now most welcome. We welcome it because you have forced us to understand that the event which you press upon us is inevitable and unavoidable. You have invited us to a Day of Reckoning. We accept. That Day of Reckoning will soon come.

If our response seems unexpectedly strong, it may be because we were never the people you thought us to be. You have said publicly that you believe Americans to be weak, spoiled by our own wealth. You have said that we lack courage, resolve and morality. You have said that we are a mongrel nation, a nation divided by racial hatred and class warfare.

Perhaps it would be good to explain to you who we really are, and so thereby remind ourselves exactly what our heritage now demands of us.

We are the sons and daughters of every race, all religions, the worlds yearning masses, joined between two oceans and by a passion for self determination and freedom. Don't assume, because we use hyphens as identifiers, that a hyphen can divide us. A hyphen also connects. Our own history proves, again and again, that in times of national emergency, we are all defined by one word, not two: American.

In us runs the blood of revolutionaries and explorers, of farmers, immigrants and Algonquin statesmen, of train barons and train robbers, and of individuals who, though chained to slave ships, refused to bow down as slaves. We are people who risked the gallows to create a sanctuary on earth that, for the first time in mankind's history, guaranteed religious freedom to all, as well as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A mongrel nation? Absolutely. You may have forgotten the first time you spoke those words. It was in Berlin, 1939.

We forgot, too, for a time. Thanks for reminding us.

Do we lack courage, resolve and morality? You will soon curse the day that you doubted. We are the 50, 000 who took our strong convictions to earth at Gettysburg. We are the thousands of white crosses that rest where poppies grow at Flanders Field in Belgium. We are Doolittle's Raiders and Patton's blood and guts. We are the 101st Airborne Screaming Eagles who parachuted into Normandy - my own father among them - and we are the body of a lone Army Ranger that your followers dragged naked through the streets of Somalia.

We are the 7th Cavalry who perished at Little Big Horn. We are Apache warriors who refused to run, and so stood awaiting death while chanting a powerful refrain: "Your bullets stand no chance against our prayers!"

To understand us? Read Thoreau and Emerson, Martin Luther King and the speeches of Tecumseh. We are not an easy people. We love a winner and despise a coward. Courage is our national cornerstone, and we are at our best when we demonstrate courage as individuals. Our reverence for self reliance has never been equaled, nor will it ever be. We are Teddy Roosevelt charging up San Juan Hill on horseback and exploring rainforest rivers by canoe. We are Lou Gehrig saying a fearless farewell. We are Rosa Parks, with tired feet, refusing to move to the back of the bus. We are John Wayne, standing tall, fighting cancer, and we are a great American Muslim named Muhammad Ali, devoted to his beliefs of right and wrong.

Tough? Send a boxing team to the Olympics. Better yet, send your strongest to Manhattan. We have some heroic fire fighters there who'd purely love to meet your best. Don't bother bringing gloves.

No. You cannot possibly know who we are, what we are, or you would not have risked the delivery of your cowardly message.

The difficult question for us as Americans, though, is not will we triumph, but how? Our quandary is this: In any conflict, the boundaries of acceptable behavior are defined by the party which cares least about morality.

You have defined the boundaries, and there are none. The lives of the innocent, of women, children and good men, are meaningless. You hide weapon factories beneath day care centers. You hide collectively behind the caskets of innocents. You have no morality, no character, nor conscience, while we Americans are blessed - and burdened - by all three.

No matter. We will find a way. Americans always have. As Americans, we always will. Your invitation to us was written in the blood of our own heroes, so we have no choice but to accept. Your Day of Reckoning is near. If there is any justice, a century from now, history will still hear the weeping of your widows. The world will agree that those of us who died that terrible Tuesday did not die in vain.

Your cowardice cannot stand in the face of our resolve. Your Evil has no chance against our prayers.


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