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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,225,987  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


As Of Today, The Number Of Dead Is Believed To Be Over... Sep 20th. at 8:26:46 pm UTC

mik63033 (Ferguson, Missouri US) Age: 41 - Email


As of today, the number of dead is believed to be over 6, 000. Six thousand. That's bigger than the city i drove through the other day. Driving through that massive expanse, my mind boggled at the then mere 4, ooo believed dead. I disagree with the poster who equated terrorists to "a rabid dog". A rabid dog, contrary to celluloid crap like "Cujo" (King admits he was high when he wrote it) doesn't go around terrorizing mothers and children in their cars. A terrorist does. I equate terrorists to pests and vermin who should be exterminated, especially when they're in your own home. "Harm none" does not mean lay down and die in your sleep. This is obviously a matter of self-defense. I try to keep myself balanced in this maelstrom. I know this is really not about religion no matter how much bin laden might like to use it, like every other terrorist throughout history has tried to use religion to his advantage. I know we are playing into this bully's hands. What i don't know is the alternative. Dubya (if he's being sincere, not political) brings up the excellent point that we have an opportunity here to eliminate terrorism. Grandiose? Definitely. Unrealistic? Probably. Necessary? What do you think. I pray the Goddess protects our shores from enemies within and without. I pray for us. I invoke Athena for us. I also hope that as we as a nation are waging war on terrorism, that we do just that. Wage war on terrorism. Not Islam. It's easier said than done I'll admit. I'm jumpy. It goes with having nerve endings. Folks, we've entered into a new era. We need to be cautious. It's going to be tedious. Tedium though, i'm sad to say, is a bannana split compared to what the victims and families and friends are going through. Let us not forget. Our lives depend upon it. Goddess bless.
Goddess bless America
s


My Daughter Turned Five On September 11th. Fortunately, She Was Attending Kindergarten... Sep 21st. at 1:16:43 am UTC

Cerridwen LoneSky (Newmarket, Ontario CA) Age: 44 - Email


My daughter turned five on September 11th. Fortunately, she was attending kindergarten, when I turned on the TV that morning. I have been to NYC many times and have stood atop the WTC and appreciated its breathtaking view. I could not believe what I was seeing, and when footage of the people jumping out of windows began I broke down in tears. Recently, I dreamt of being safe from fire and destruction as many folks tumbled down/out of a hill/tower. It reminded me of the Tower in the tarot deck. Citizens of the world continue to die as a result of religious fanaticism, as they always have, and the Taliban are especially brutal to Afghani women. Goddess/God, I appeal to you to keep the victims and their families in your embrace at this time of grief.


9/11/01 Is A Day I Will Not Soon Forget. I... Sep 21st. at 1:31:03 am UTC

Gwydion Canu Bleidd (Knoxville, Tennessee US) Age: 33 - Email


9/11/01 is a day I will not soon forget. I walked out of my apartment on my way to class that morning; it was a beautiful, dry, clear day here in Knoxville, the sort of day that is rare here. It was so nice, I thought, what could possibly go wrong on a day like this?

Oh, how I wish I had never had that thought now... We were in class when the news came; it was relayed by one of the school's administration. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, thought it must be a sick joke. It was no joke at all; it was, however, sick. After class, driving home for the short break I would get before heading off to work, I heard on the local classic rock station I listen to most of the time about businesses closing in the wake of the attack. It never even occurred to me to think of the place where I work in neighboring Oak Ridge.

Oak Ridge, for those of you not familiar with the history of East Tennessee, is home to three nuclear weapons plants. Ripe for terrorist attacks and major nuclear devastation, should the terrorists turn their attentions there next. I expected business as usual; I expected the place to be abuzz with talk of the attacks. Instead, the parking lot was as deserted as the mountains of the moon, and a sign on the door read "Closed until further notice." At first, I was sort of jazzed about having an unscheduled day off from work; then I remembered Y-12 and the others. The novelty quickly disappeared, and I spent the rest of that day in a thoughtful silence; deep down I was sick with dread. What next? I thought. Where will it end? And who's responsible?

I spoke very little the rest of that day. Words couldn't describe the horror and the dread that I felt. Nor could they encompass the outrage I felt days later after Jerry Falwell did his finger-pointing act. What an unreal bastard, I thought. How dare he? And just like another poster here, I wondered what President Bush would say. To his credit, W. denounced Falwell for his divisive words. Maybe there's hope for him after all. And remembering how high his father's approval rating was a decade ago after the Gulf War, decisive action on W.'s part may help his faltering image considerably now.

Now, more than ever, we need to stand together as a nation. We need to embrace our Arab neighbors who came here for the freedom that America stands--stood--for, and know that it's not their fault. As someone else pointed out, they were trying to escape the tyranny of governments like the Taliban, and the fanaticism of people like bin Laden. They only want what we all here want; to live and breathe easily, with freedom from fear. Fear is not the beginning of wisdom; fear is the beginning of paralysis and stagnation.
These atrocious attacks on our country must be investigated as criminal acts, not as acts of war. The terrorists who caused those planes to crash are dead, but they cannot escape the karma that awaits them. Those who supported and funded them must be punished. But we must be certain of whom we are after. No finger-pointing; no hatemongering; no race- or religion-baiting. And most of all, we must try to heal ourselves, and to understand. We must pray for peace, but be ready for war if we are pushed to that point.
But most of all, we must be unified. Today, I gave $10 as a donation to the Red Cross that a local radio station was collecting. It's not much, but as with any gift, it is the thought that counts. I will support our nation, and I will raise my voice in support. I will give what I am able to. Every little bit counts.

I am a Pagan, but first and foremost, I am an American.


We Pagans Often Speak In Terms Of Spirals And Karma And Return... Sep 21st. at 5:51:03 am UTC

Sabeth (Munich) Age: 30 - Email


We Pagans often speak in terms of spirals and karma and return and yet when we experience fate returning painfully into our lives, all too quickly we recoil and vow that someone will pay. For those who would shout revenge or justice, consider this.

If bin Laden is indeed responsible for the terrible events on 11 Sept., then the US government is indeed getting back what it sent forth, as if by magic, for it supported bin Laden as well as Pakistani dictator Gen. Zia-ul Haq in creating thousands of religious schools for a short-term foot-up during the Cold War. These schools were fertile breeding ground for the Taliban and as Afghanistan fought first Communist foes and then itself, the evolution of Islam ideologies went unwatched and the potential power of their supporters unheeded.

Any expert of war and international conflict since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 can tell you that the shape of conflict in this world has taken on a much smaller scale. Instead of mass world war, the last years have seen sniper attacks, terrorism, and ethnic conflicts that eke out human blood slowly but tragically surely, over the course of several years. Take the Bosnian conflict and the Afghans as but two of many more such examples.

For most Americans, this phenomenon has only been a matter of academic discourse. But Bush is quite wrong: This type of war is not new, nor are the tactics used for fighting it. The only new thing about this attack, this war, if war it is, is that it hit American soil and thereby brought in particular the emotional value of such attacks straight home to Americans. Bush has been quite short-sighted to assume that his ballistic missile shield program would protect the US from this sort of attack, since he should have been among the best informed of the fact that little, covert operations have been the medium for conflict for at least the last 10 years.

My take on this tragedy is that someone--however unjustly--wanted to put the immediacy of this problem on the US table by making us experience just how it feels to live in fear, in a state of constant, destructive change.

Clearly, the realist politics of protecting one's own interests, though perhaps an effective quick fix, were not really a fix at all for the long term. The US set the Afghans on the Russians like dogs and stirred the anger of the Islam world and quite effectively, too, but they did not consider that these policies might revisit innocent civilians and soldiers in such a devastating way. Had they practiced a politics of peace and world cooperation, rather than power acquisition and self interest, the US would have been a much less attractive target.

On a more personal level, therefore, my suggestion to everyone who may be getting out their battle axes and curses in a call for justice and revenge now is simply this: devote your energy instead to a long-lasting solution. Call for peace, even despite your anger, your hurt, your fear or whatever else you may be feeling. Only when we use our anger for positive change will we prevail. A curse is a short-term solution that will surely revisit its sender in some way. I urge everyone to promote long-lasting peace rather than retribution. Practice tolerance and love. Use that strength in your feelings, whether anger or hate or frustriation or fear, to work actively for something better. Let's put this ordeal to a real end, not a short-term one.

My condolences to all those who have lost loved ones, and much courage and love to those who need it as they rebuild.

Sabeth


9/11/01tears Drowning Innocent Hearts Maned&tornshocked&forlornrescuers... Sep 21st. at 8:03:13 am UTC

LadyMysti )0( (Milford) Age: 26 - Email


9/11/01
Tears drowning innocent hearts
Maned&torn
Shocked&forlorn
Rescuers with love&courage pumping the blood&energy into their hearts
Universal no matter which deities we belive
Muslim, Arab, Pagan, Christian, Jewish
Whatever you belive
If you can
Belive we are one
UNITY!
Such a strong word
Open up your heart
Peace&love
Comfort&strength
There is still hope
The sun still shines
And we should all stand strong
Empty the hatered inside
Violence isnt just
When racism springs forth
Have faith in each other
No matter what color or race
We will not forget this date 9/11/01

"M.A.01"


I See Lots Of People Saying That Those Who Will Die In... Sep 21st. at 8:04:39 am UTC

Wyverns (Laval, Quebec CA) Age: 20


I see lots of people saying that those who will die in afghanistan aren't totally innocent and maybe it is their karma catching up with them... the same thing stands for the US citizens that died.

I do not wish to be seen as anti american but I see lots of reasons why this happenned... America being the last standing super power doesn't consult anymore with other countries before acting or it imposes it's decisions.

They put themselves in other's countries politics without invitation.

Nobody in those towers were totally innocent... When you buy products from huge companies that make their products in under developped countries where people work for astoundingly small wages we are all part of the problem... Abusing the population of other countries that way causes what we saw on 9/11.

I do not wish to support what happenned either. I understand that lots of people died and those people had families and friends who loved them. It's hard for them and I send them all the energy I can.

I hope people will not give in to anger or revenge, if they do that they will be of the same kind of people who hijacked those planes. They were seeking revenge and were consumed by their anger. Do not make a mockery of the word justice like politicians are doing on tv. They seek vengence and retribution not justice.

I will pray for all who will be involved in this conflict so they may live or die with peace in their minds.


Another Great Idea To Unite As A Country -- Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Hindus... Sep 21st. at 9:16:01 am UTC

Ciarrai (North Plainfield, New Jersey US) Age: 34


Another great idea to unite as a country -- Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Agnostics, Athiests, everyone! "Come together!"

LIGHT UP OUR NATION'S SKY

On Tuesday, September 25, 2001, our Nation will come together as one for a Candlelight Memorial for all affected by this tragedy at the times listed below for 15 MINUTES. These are the times when our entire nation will be dark.

Pacific: 8:00pm till 8:15pm
Mountain: 9:00pm till 9:15pm
Central: 10:00pm till 10:15pm
Eastern: 11:00pm till 11:15pm

During the above times, individuals, businesses, cities, municipalities, fire stations, ball parks, car dealerships, malls (the list is infinite), virtually any person or place, please do the following:

For 15 minutes turn on every light you can. At home turn on all of your outside lights, and flood lights, shine any lights you can. Turn on your high beams on your vehicles in your driveways. Turn off you air-conditioning and nonessential appliances as not to cause power issues. Hold flashlights and candles to the sky and, if you believe in prayer, please pray. Pray for all that are hurting, Pray for our President and our Leaders, Pray for Peace.

Businesses turn on your lights that can be seen by the sky, light up your business as much as possible. City officials I urge you to light up your cities for these few short minutes.

In order for this to work we need as many people as possible to do the following:

As soon as you get this, forward it to others. Don't waste a minute. Forward it to as many people that you can as far across our country as quickly as possible. Time is everything for mass coverage. Copy this and spread it around your neighborhoods, work places and schools. Get the word out and ask everyone to do the same. If you would like to help further, call your local municipalities and "key" people in your communities and work places and challenge them to help.

This is a grass roots effort and we need "take charge" people in every city and town across the nation to make this happen. Most importantly, call your local news stations and get them involved. A little tenacity will go along way.

If you're a "Key" person in your community, use your resources to its fullest capacity to share this information with other leaders and staff in the work place and government. We need everybody.

All News Media, national and local, we need your help. Please broadcast the Candlelight Memorial plans throughout the cities and the nation.

ON SEPTEMBER 25, 2001 WE WILL LIGHT UP THE SKY ACROSS OUR GREAT NATION, EVERY CORNER OF THE WORLD WILL SEE VIA SATELLITES OUR NATION GLOW IN THE NIGHT AND THEY WILL KNOW WE STAND UP AGAINST EVIL AS ONE NATION, WE GRIEVE AS ONE NATION, AND WE CONTINUE AS ONE NATION.

As our President George W. Bush said, "These acts shatter steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American Resolve."

ALL PEOPLE SMILE IN THE SAME LANGUAGE....

Peace!


Looking Back On What Has Happened Since 9-11 I Have Wondered... Sep 21st. at 10:32:16 am UTC

Midnite (Savannah, Georgia US) Age: 48 - Email


Looking back on what has happened since 9-11 I have wondered if we didn't feel what was about to happen befor hand. My best friend and I spoke last night on the phone and remembered the week befor all this happened . We were very edgy and stresses, we cryed at the drop of a hat, we stayed hidden in our safe space except when we had to go to work, sleep didn't come easy. And even threw medatation some still was with us. We couldn't put a our finger on the "WHY's" but we felt it. I don't think the two of us were alone in the inter message that we recived.

Now we pull together with healing energy and our own magick to help all involved. I ask all of the Pagen community to help heal hearts & minds by sending healing, loving energy to all the world as it us "Our Mother".

Goddess Bless and keep us all in Her Loving arms.


To The Person Who Calls Him/herself 'bin Layen':maybe You Are... Sep 21st. at 2:30:20 pm UTC

Inori Aleynterra Riverli (Clearfield, Utah US) Age: 21 - Email


To the person who calls him/herself 'bin Layen':

Maybe you are right. Certainly America has many problems to deal with: crime, poverty, disease, and the ongoing battle for equality in gender and lifestyle. But all these problems arise from a unique gift, which cannot be found in the same degree in any other nation, Freedom.

We must consider these weak points, yes. But these threaten our stability, terrorists our very existence. If our nation falls to such attacks, those problems would the last thing we'd need to worry about.

And our attacker is not unknown. Airport records and personal testimony clearly indicate bin Laden. Maybe you're right in thinking that he is innocent of this, but all the evidence we currently possess says otherwise, and his history has shown that he will never stop of his own will. Should we allow him to continue spreading pain? Or the kind of hatred-twisted, faux-religious worldview that can justify mass murder?

I invite you to e-mail me. I do not understand your view in that statement, and this is my weakness that I would like to overcome. I would like to learn what ideals inspired your conclusion.


I Don't Know About Any Of You, But I Do Know That... Sep 21st. at 5:21:39 pm UTC

Coyote Morningstar (West Palm Beach, Florida US) Age: 30 - Email


I don't know about any of you, but I do know that it was never so clear to me how important my responsibility to the Lady and Lord was. I found myself praying the same prayers over and over in a litany against fear. Over and over, until my mouth moved of its own power and I knew that the words were right, though I did not put a lick of energy into it. Free to meditate on what the last couple weeks have brought to us. For me my pride as an American, my duty as a priest, and my will as a witch has grown tremendously. The sheer weight of everything that's happened strengthens the pillars that of my soul. I still haven't begun to deal with all my emotions. Right now I'm waiting to see what happens next. Literally waiting to exhale. In moments of tidal waves of fear and dread it's those pillars that have kept me on this side of sane. Madness and turmoil whisper in my most inner ear but they have no real power. My family motto is 'Je desire fais ce que dois advienne que pourra'. Roughly translated as 'I desire to do what must be done, come what may'. I've chanted that as well. What must be done....
I also like the Serenity prayer, for you who don't know it:

Gods, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

My coven has chosen to offer prayers to Athena, as Goddess of Battle Wisdom. And place an owl on our shrines.

May the Lady and Lord of all life Bless you all,
And Blessed Harvest Home,


Thank You To All Who Have Given Their Support. I Am A... Sep 21st. at 7:00:16 pm UTC

Dawn (Staten Island, New York US) Age: 40 - Email


Thank you to all who have given their support. I am a New Yorker and I had lost a few friends from this WTC attack. We also lost over 100 NYFD and NYPD people attempting to rescue people.Also there are those that are unaccounted for since they are trapped in the subway on the #1 and NR trains.To me there is a reason for everything.Nothing happens by chance.Approximately a week prior to Setember 11, 2001 I was in the Village with a few of my friends (witches too). I had a terrible feeling . I usually get this as a warning signal that something is not right. I started shaking and I visioned glass breaking, buildings falling down and I kept looking at the Towers (The WTC). I felt so sick that I had vomited. I thought it was a warning for me and my friends to leave the area at that time (Setember 1, 2001)All I said it will be a disaster if The Twin Towers fell down).

Since I am a procrastinator I was going to call my supervisor to ask for the morning off so I could go into the city(Manhattan) to pick up my College ID).Well I had awaken to that same awful feeling that I had experienced in the Village on 9-1-01. So I came to work. When I was walking towards my office I heard that a plane crashed into the tower.At that moment I broke down with the tears.

I knew it was Terrorist attack on America.We can see the smoke from across the river on Staten Island. I had to go home to try to call my mother who worked not far from the WTC but I couldnt get through. I thought of my son, who is 17, yes he is my oldest but he is still my baby.He recently joined the ARMY and he is in training as I type this message. I immediately donated blood, volunterred and of course I sent my blessings. Two nights later I astro-projected to the subway where I heard a voice"You should be down here with us".

I got up immediately and washed in sea-salt, saged my home and lit more candles with a blessing to those who lost their lives to return to the Goddess and to walk in Love and Light.Also for Justice to be carried out and not Revenge. I know it was not my time to go and I do believe in Karma. In numerology the number is 5 (Power -good or destructiveness) and the time these attacks occurred The moon was opposite from Mars(Chaos).The people who did this were knowledeable in Astrology and in Numerology .Check on Aradia's Gospell of The Witches. Also think of those non-human beings who died as a result of this. Brightest Blessings To All... Dawn


Flags Do Not Heal, Anthems Do Not Calm, War Is Not Peace... Sep 22nd. at 11:51:40 am UTC

Keith V. Thomas (New Brunswick, New Jersey US) Age: 33


Flags do not heal, anthems do not calm, war is not peace. Walking with pain and tradegy all around, so personal, so tangible, so inside our home, requires a balance of mind and heart, strength and compassion. 6, 000 voices cry out for help, in pain and terror. Do not answer with this call with war and destruction. The goddess teaches, "Harm none..." this means, even those who harm others.


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