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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 23,969,315  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

I See Lots Of People Saying That Those Who Will Die In... Sep 21st. at 8:04:39 am EDT

Wyverns (Laval, Quebec CA) Age: 20

I see lots of people saying that those who will die in afghanistan aren't totally innocent and maybe it is their karma catching up with them... the same thing stands for the US citizens that died.

I do not wish to be seen as anti american but I see lots of reasons why this happenned... America being the last standing super power doesn't consult anymore with other countries before acting or it imposes it's decisions.

They put themselves in other's countries politics without invitation.

Nobody in those towers were totally innocent... When you buy products from huge companies that make their products in under developped countries where people work for astoundingly small wages we are all part of the problem... Abusing the population of other countries that way causes what we saw on 9/11.

I do not wish to support what happenned either. I understand that lots of people died and those people had families and friends who loved them. It's hard for them and I send them all the energy I can.

I hope people will not give in to anger or revenge, if they do that they will be of the same kind of people who hijacked those planes. They were seeking revenge and were consumed by their anger. Do not make a mockery of the word justice like politicians are doing on tv. They seek vengence and retribution not justice.

I will pray for all who will be involved in this conflict so they may live or die with peace in their minds.

Another Great Idea To Unite As A Country -- Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Hindus... Sep 21st. at 9:16:01 am EDT

Ciarrai (North Plainfield, New Jersey US) Age: 34

Another great idea to unite as a country -- Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Agnostics, Athiests, everyone! "Come together!"


On Tuesday, September 25, 2001, our Nation will come together as one for a Candlelight Memorial for all affected by this tragedy at the times listed below for 15 MINUTES. These are the times when our entire nation will be dark.

Pacific: 8:00pm till 8:15pm
Mountain: 9:00pm till 9:15pm
Central: 10:00pm till 10:15pm
Eastern: 11:00pm till 11:15pm

During the above times, individuals, businesses, cities, municipalities, fire stations, ball parks, car dealerships, malls (the list is infinite), virtually any person or place, please do the following:

For 15 minutes turn on every light you can. At home turn on all of your outside lights, and flood lights, shine any lights you can. Turn on your high beams on your vehicles in your driveways. Turn off you air-conditioning and nonessential appliances as not to cause power issues. Hold flashlights and candles to the sky and, if you believe in prayer, please pray. Pray for all that are hurting, Pray for our President and our Leaders, Pray for Peace.

Businesses turn on your lights that can be seen by the sky, light up your business as much as possible. City officials I urge you to light up your cities for these few short minutes.

In order for this to work we need as many people as possible to do the following:

As soon as you get this, forward it to others. Don't waste a minute. Forward it to as many people that you can as far across our country as quickly as possible. Time is everything for mass coverage. Copy this and spread it around your neighborhoods, work places and schools. Get the word out and ask everyone to do the same. If you would like to help further, call your local municipalities and "key" people in your communities and work places and challenge them to help.

This is a grass roots effort and we need "take charge" people in every city and town across the nation to make this happen. Most importantly, call your local news stations and get them involved. A little tenacity will go along way.

If you're a "Key" person in your community, use your resources to its fullest capacity to share this information with other leaders and staff in the work place and government. We need everybody.

All News Media, national and local, we need your help. Please broadcast the Candlelight Memorial plans throughout the cities and the nation.


As our President George W. Bush said, "These acts shatter steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American Resolve."



Looking Back On What Has Happened Since 9-11 I Have Wondered... Sep 21st. at 10:32:16 am EDT

Midnite (Savannah, Georgia US) Age: 48 - Email

Looking back on what has happened since 9-11 I have wondered if we didn't feel what was about to happen befor hand. My best friend and I spoke last night on the phone and remembered the week befor all this happened . We were very edgy and stresses, we cryed at the drop of a hat, we stayed hidden in our safe space except when we had to go to work, sleep didn't come easy. And even threw medatation some still was with us. We couldn't put a our finger on the "WHY's" but we felt it. I don't think the two of us were alone in the inter message that we recived.

Now we pull together with healing energy and our own magick to help all involved. I ask all of the Pagen community to help heal hearts & minds by sending healing, loving energy to all the world as it us "Our Mother".

Goddess Bless and keep us all in Her Loving arms.

To The Person Who Calls Him/herself 'bin Layen':maybe You Are... Sep 21st. at 2:30:20 pm EDT

Inori Aleynterra Riverli (Clearfield, Utah US) Age: 21 - Email

To the person who calls him/herself 'bin Layen':

Maybe you are right. Certainly America has many problems to deal with: crime, poverty, disease, and the ongoing battle for equality in gender and lifestyle. But all these problems arise from a unique gift, which cannot be found in the same degree in any other nation, Freedom.

We must consider these weak points, yes. But these threaten our stability, terrorists our very existence. If our nation falls to such attacks, those problems would the last thing we'd need to worry about.

And our attacker is not unknown. Airport records and personal testimony clearly indicate bin Laden. Maybe you're right in thinking that he is innocent of this, but all the evidence we currently possess says otherwise, and his history has shown that he will never stop of his own will. Should we allow him to continue spreading pain? Or the kind of hatred-twisted, faux-religious worldview that can justify mass murder?

I invite you to e-mail me. I do not understand your view in that statement, and this is my weakness that I would like to overcome. I would like to learn what ideals inspired your conclusion.

I Don't Know About Any Of You, But I Do Know That... Sep 21st. at 5:21:39 pm EDT

Coyote Morningstar (West Palm Beach, Florida US) Age: 30 - Email

I don't know about any of you, but I do know that it was never so clear to me how important my responsibility to the Lady and Lord was. I found myself praying the same prayers over and over in a litany against fear. Over and over, until my mouth moved of its own power and I knew that the words were right, though I did not put a lick of energy into it. Free to meditate on what the last couple weeks have brought to us. For me my pride as an American, my duty as a priest, and my will as a witch has grown tremendously. The sheer weight of everything that's happened strengthens the pillars that of my soul. I still haven't begun to deal with all my emotions. Right now I'm waiting to see what happens next. Literally waiting to exhale. In moments of tidal waves of fear and dread it's those pillars that have kept me on this side of sane. Madness and turmoil whisper in my most inner ear but they have no real power. My family motto is 'Je desire fais ce que dois advienne que pourra'. Roughly translated as 'I desire to do what must be done, come what may'. I've chanted that as well. What must be done....
I also like the Serenity prayer, for you who don't know it:

Gods, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

My coven has chosen to offer prayers to Athena, as Goddess of Battle Wisdom. And place an owl on our shrines.

May the Lady and Lord of all life Bless you all,
And Blessed Harvest Home,

Thank You To All Who Have Given Their Support. I Am A... Sep 21st. at 7:00:16 pm EDT

Dawn (Staten Island, New York US) Age: 40 - Email

Thank you to all who have given their support. I am a New Yorker and I had lost a few friends from this WTC attack. We also lost over 100 NYFD and NYPD people attempting to rescue people.Also there are those that are unaccounted for since they are trapped in the subway on the #1 and NR trains.To me there is a reason for everything.Nothing happens by chance.Approximately a week prior to Setember 11, 2001 I was in the Village with a few of my friends (witches too). I had a terrible feeling . I usually get this as a warning signal that something is not right. I started shaking and I visioned glass breaking, buildings falling down and I kept looking at the Towers (The WTC). I felt so sick that I had vomited. I thought it was a warning for me and my friends to leave the area at that time (Setember 1, 2001)All I said it will be a disaster if The Twin Towers fell down).

Since I am a procrastinator I was going to call my supervisor to ask for the morning off so I could go into the city(Manhattan) to pick up my College ID).Well I had awaken to that same awful feeling that I had experienced in the Village on 9-1-01. So I came to work. When I was walking towards my office I heard that a plane crashed into the tower.At that moment I broke down with the tears.

I knew it was Terrorist attack on America.We can see the smoke from across the river on Staten Island. I had to go home to try to call my mother who worked not far from the WTC but I couldnt get through. I thought of my son, who is 17, yes he is my oldest but he is still my baby.He recently joined the ARMY and he is in training as I type this message. I immediately donated blood, volunterred and of course I sent my blessings. Two nights later I astro-projected to the subway where I heard a voice"You should be down here with us".

I got up immediately and washed in sea-salt, saged my home and lit more candles with a blessing to those who lost their lives to return to the Goddess and to walk in Love and Light.Also for Justice to be carried out and not Revenge. I know it was not my time to go and I do believe in Karma. In numerology the number is 5 (Power -good or destructiveness) and the time these attacks occurred The moon was opposite from Mars(Chaos).The people who did this were knowledeable in Astrology and in Numerology .Check on Aradia's Gospell of The Witches. Also think of those non-human beings who died as a result of this. Brightest Blessings To All... Dawn

Flags Do Not Heal, Anthems Do Not Calm, War Is Not Peace... Sep 22nd. at 11:51:40 am EDT

Keith V. Thomas (New Brunswick, New Jersey US) Age: 33

Flags do not heal, anthems do not calm, war is not peace. Walking with pain and tradegy all around, so personal, so tangible, so inside our home, requires a balance of mind and heart, strength and compassion. 6, 000 voices cry out for help, in pain and terror. Do not answer with this call with war and destruction. The goddess teaches, "Harm none..." this means, even those who harm others.

My Mom And I Were Having Dinner At Ruby Tuesday's A Week... Sep 22nd. at 12:03:18 pm EDT

rose (winchester, Virginia US) Age: 18 - Email

my mom and i were having dinner at ruby tuesday's a week after the attacks. there were tv's all around the restaurant, and they were all set to cnn's coversge of the rescue effort in new york. as i watched the rescue workers slogging through rubble and ash and the new yorkers numbly trying to get to work, i said to my mom: "it's crazy how new york can look like that and life goes on as usual here." and she replied simply, "it has to. otherwise they win."

I Am Borrowing Heavily From Some Points Made By Dr. Gloria Brame... Sep 22nd. at 2:14:40 pm EDT

Suzanne Morrigan Burns (Boston, Massachusetts US) Age: 37 - Email

I am borrowing heavily from some points made by Dr. Gloria Brame in a recent discussion in formulating this post. I am still shaking, and still at a loss for words. I want to make a few simple points, and she was much quicker on the draw than me, and found the links I list below. To wit:

I do not think it is possible to reason with the Taliban. I think truly it would be like negotiating with Hitler. I do not say this lightly. To those who are calling for peace and turning the other cheek, and who are condemning the United States for making military plans, do you know what the results were of the non-aggression pact that Hitler made with England and
Russia in 1939? Answer: WWII.

Not only does the Taliban have one of the worst human rights records in the world, and is known particularly for its torture and persecution of women, it has ZERO incentive to tell the US the truth about *anything*. They share Bin Laden's agenda of imposing extremist religious views on the rest of the world (including other Arab nations). They profit by his presence. They endorse
his beliefs.

To those who are questioning the US Military actions (which for the record hasn't even happened yet), please inform yourselves on the Taliban and Bin Laden. Visit these sites:

Resource Documents on Bin Laden (the Smoking Gun)

Who are the Taliban? (BBC)

I think US policy will make a lot more sense to you if you understand precisely the nature and agenda of these individuals.

Also, to the person who wrote the letter which Isaac Bonwits posted on his web site challenging the United States to send food and humanitarian aid to the Afghan people: it appears that the US has already been doing that. The amount of U.S. aide to Afghanistan in 2001 was $140, 000, 000. This was all humanitarian aide. I don't see any evidence that anyone is out to blame or target the Afghan people-- except maybe their own government which appears to be more than happy to throw them into the crossfire for the sake of their longed for Jihad.

Many people have urged the United States to proceed with caution and not act until they know who actually did this. This is wise advice, and I respect the heart from which it comes. Hasty decisions are not what we need now. However I find it strange that the same people are leaping to the conclusion that the United States is planning to bomb Afghanistan with the intention of harming civilians, and condemn the United States before the fact.

I think one reason the discussion of this tragedy has often gone awry is that the emotions and the language people have been using on both sides is so loaded ("Let's get 'em!" vs. "Hell no I won't go!")it has been hard to sort out our emotions from what is actually happening.

I continue to pray for wisdom and protection. I pray that we will take things a step at a time, and continue to be our best selves.


Suzanne Morrigan Burns

Iam Writing This To Share It, Since It Has Been Bothering Me... Sep 22nd. at 2:29:06 pm EDT

Heidi the Smith (stump towne, Oregon US) Age: 36 - Email

Iam writing this to share it, since it has been bothering me since the 11th.

I shall now pay moe atention to my dreams.

On tuesday morning I turned on the radio. The mayor was talking about the airport being shut down. I thought maybe a plane had crashed, or there was some sort of traffic control problem. As I poured my coffee I only half listened to the radio. The phone rang.

It was my Mother.
"honey, do you remember the dream you had last week?"
"Well, go turn on CNN." She said.

I flipped on the tv, and there in glorious color was what I had dreamnt about the week before. New York in flames, the fireball, the rubble. People panicking. All of it.

My dream had been so vivid that I had called my mother the next morning, before anything else and told her about it. It had disturbed me that much. But I have never had precognitive dreams. I don't even pretend to be psychic. My best friend and I once went to a haunted house and She(pisces of course) had every spirit in the place walk up and say "Howdy!" but not me. Apparently Iam too thick to get through to..

But here was my dream, before my eyes. So I will share it with you, so I can heal my psyche.

In the dream I work in London. Iam and my assistant are designing sets, or something for a film, and we are interrupted by the phone ringing. It is my mother, she is upset, and sobbing. When I ask her what is wrong she says"Turn on the tv!! They've done it, the Arabs have blown up New York!!"

When I turn on the tv I see the towers exploding, and flames and rubble.
I tell my mother "Nostradamus predicted this, he said it would begin and end this way."
"I know Honey, I read his work too." she replied.
I watched the horror unfolding, and told my mother I would get home as soon as possible.
Then I awoke quickly covered in sweat. I was so scared by what I had seen that I got up and called my mother.
She was a sweet and told me to not worry about it, and quit watching so much news.
So I went on with my week, and then Sept. 11th arrived..

I share this with you all. Maybe others had similar dreams or premonitions, and I want you all to know that we are not crazy. That sometimes the Norns or Fates send us messages. Unfortunately we can't always know the meanings right away. I also now many will read this and be skeptical or pass judgement on me. All I ask is that folk keep an open mind, and not be so swift to judge and condemn me to the "kook" bin.

May the Gods keep you all well,

Heidi the Smith

Hail the Vanir!
Hail the Aesir!
Hail to Mokosh Mother Earth!
Hail to Svarog Greatest of Smiths!
Give us strength and courage
Peace and Plenty
Justice and wisdom.

Thank You Wren, For Your Essay "freedom Is Hard." I Have Printed... Sep 22nd. at 2:30:06 pm EDT

Edeva (Woodland, California US) Age: 36 - Email

Thank you Wren, for your essay "Freedom is Hard." I have printed it and am putting it on my refrigerator door and also carrying a copy in my binder so that I can have it with me in the days to come. I have had your website in my favorites list for a long time but I have never taken the time to thank you before. I am sorry that I haven't thanked you sooner for your wonderful site and am especially sorry that it took such a tragedy for me to do so. Brightest blessings on you and all of those who give their time and effort to keep pagans in touch with each other and the world.

How Awesome....i Was Really Touched By The Post Submitted By Tamim... Sep 22nd. at 2:44:53 pm EDT

Nightgwath (Avoca, New York US) Age: 40 - Email

How awesome....I was really touched by the post submitted by Tamim Ansary a few days ago, and to my surprise when I opened my local newspaper this morning, there it print.Utterly KOOL....

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