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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Sep. 8, 2002   This Page Viewed: 9,832,962  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Nightwind, On That Last Comment. Mar 26th. at 12:55:17 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


There can be no doubt. We as pagans do have a responsibility to healp heal what is happening.. all points you made on bush are valid. And all arguements and debates aside, I would be glad to stand side by side with other pagans to do that healing of America and am doing what I can in that regard as well. Cause if there is anyone who has the power to heal it is the faithful (regardless of the face of your faith) . And the pagans are a big part of that.


No Title Mar 26th. at 1:40:42 pm UTC

Josh (Van Buren AR) Age: 14 - Email


Okay the protest shouldnt stop because once we lose the rebels the ^&^&% military guys will start getting even bigger egos. And our americanist will slowly die. we need rebels. so i think that people who launch anti-protest (which is contradictory since they are landing protest of their own) need to get over their horse or whateva. but most of all i htink the divide is nesscary and i hope the anti-war wins.

-Josh


I Don't Know, Rick, Me Boyo, But When Mar 26th. at 2:23:24 pm UTC

Night Wind (USA) Age: 2500 - Email


You wrote:

"I am having trouble not laughing right now and it is messing up my typing. The US military is in the middle of the most rapid armored advance in the history of warfare, General Heinz Guderian doesn't have squat on us!!!!!!!! "

It sure sounds like bombast to me.

You are right that there are unmobilized National Guard units. But they are mostly light infantry, and never armor. Light infantry just doesn't win wars, unless the opponent is very weak, indeed. Right now, the US military is at the weakest it has been since the late 1980s, and this is because it is overextended and underfunded for the job it has to do. I am getting this from sources like the Christian Science Monitor and Strategypage. When they agree on anything, you can bet it's true.

Please note that I am not a hard-core anti-war protestor. I think the war is _foolish_, not _immoral_. If we had a different leader, and we did it more intelligently, I could even support it. But our leader is someone who wishes to exclude Pagans from the national life, even those Pagans who serve their country in the armed forces. Further, our leader hs chosen to fight this war in a stupid manner which transforms it from an easy victory over a Third World country, into a long and draining occupation.

You should also note that I have been talking about the aftermath of the war more than the war itself.

The bombast you are using, and many other Americans are also using, is also just stupid and counterproductive. This kind of bragging -- "world's only superpower", "greatest advance in the history of warfare", "mightiest military in human history", "new world order", ad nauseam -- merely makes the United States look aggressive and dangerous, alienates people who are proud of their own countries, and, ultimately, doesn't mean nearly as much as real deeds, anyway. The way I was raised, such bragging was usually the mark of someone who DIDN'T have real strength, and used words to make up for it. Those who truly have power don't often need to advertise it.

The constant bragging and posturing of the Bush administration makes me wonder if the power is really there to back up the boasts. In this, Bush's bragging reminds me of Wilhelm II, actually. Deep down, Willi was a constitutional monarch with an inferiority complex, who used his own boasting and bombast to make up for an inner feeling of inferiority. Unfortunately, many people abroad found it very threatening, and it played a very great role in building the anti-German alliance that eventually defeated Germany in World War I. A more thoughtful, intelligent German than Willi once said, when listening to Willi rant on, and be supported by his people: "I feel Nero-ism in the air".

Well, when I listen to Bush, and to you, I feel Nero-ism in the air.


Protestors Mar 26th. at 2:32:19 pm UTC

slackfoomaster (Oregon) Age: 29 - Email


Hello all, i don't understand these people who go downtown and sit in protest and then try and block bridges and then when they feel that there message hasn't gotten across they decide to destroy public and private property and then break into stores and steal what ever they can to benefit there interest. Well all that does is piss me off and if I owned one of the store's that get attacked I will be sitting inside waiting for these idiot's to bust in and try to take something and i mean TRY and take something from me.

Through the years i have seen alot of protests go bad and if these people want to protest in a peaceful manner so be it, go for it.But when people want to destroy things just to destoy things that is just wrong.

I THOUGH THESE PEOPL ARE FOR PEACE....AM I WRONG...LET ME KNOW!!!!!!


Bad Protestors... Mar 26th. at 2:56:11 pm UTC

tawny (So. Cal.) Age: 24 - Email


Although those that take the left hand path would like to queer the reality to help their agenda, the reality is that a tiny faction of the prosters have done ANYTHING voilent. We are talking less than 1%...

So why is that the pro war folks continue to focus on LESS than 1% and try argue that near ALL protestors are actiing violently...

Give me a break.


Don't Buy It Still Mar 26th. at 3:00:15 pm UTC

tawny (So. Cal.) Age: 24 - Email


To answer the question... NO... i haven't changed my mind. I still believe that this war has near zero to do with 'helping' the iraqui people and everything to do with holding a position in the middle east, jillion dollar contracts (kudos haliburton for your big score yesterday) , and a small man with a big ego.

"I am a uniter.. NOT a devider" - Good job at that Mr. bush.

Incredible, AND the drones are following him blindly on this.


Re: Bad Protesters Mar 26th. at 3:05:40 pm UTC

Amber Heathen (Cornelius Oregon) Age: 22 - Email


So prove it. All I've seen are obnoxious, jobless, degenerates running amok in downtown Portland.

By the way, I'm not pro-war.

And I agree with the woman who posted earlier (the military wife) . People keep saying that the pro-war activists are the ones acting rudely--Point them out for me too, please. Some pro-war folks held a rally in Portland last Thursday and they kept it peaceful (and in a park, they didn't clog up the city streets) . It was relatively calm for the most part, except when a bunch of anti-war protesters walked on down and tried to pick fights with them.

I have to hand it to the Portland Police Department--the men and women must have a lot of patience and self-control. I saw a police-officer get pushed off his bicycle yesterday morning during the "peace" march. If I were that officer I would have whipped out one of those nifty batons and put the beat down on the guy, screaming "Protest this!! You wanna see police brutality?? Lemme show ya!" Good thing I ain't a cop!


No Title Mar 26th. at 3:21:34 pm UTC

Feribear (Western MA) Age: 30 - Email


I recently read something about anti-war protesters attacking a mother whose son is a Marine. They were cursing her and smashing their fists on the hood of her car, denting it. I was brought to tears because that could have been my mother who flies Air Force colors in her car because of my dad.

While I support the rights of free speech and expression and understand their frustration and anger at being told by our government that their voices don't matter, I cannot understand why some anti war protesters who demand peace incite violence. That sort of anger and "anti" thought process will not send the positive energy into the web that will end this conflict any sooner.

I will support and praise the groups that strip naked and make words (have you seen these folks? they are great! No violence, no shouting ... just a quiet statement about their feelings that gets positive attention) I will praise anyone who is pro-troops and speaks to bringing them home quickly and safely.

I can't group all anti-war protesters together as a violent mob, but I cannot stand with them either. I prefer to focus my energy on more positive outcomes ... the troops safe and home, the Iraqi people safe from Saddam Hussein, abundant food, water & medical supplies for everyone in the desert right now, supporting and comforting all the folks who are suffering because of the war.

I know that this must make me sound like a fluffy bunny, but I can feel their pain on the web and my first reaction is not to get angry but to help comfort them if I can.

PS - I wrote this first thing this morning and until now it has been my stance on the war ... it probably still will be once I cool down. But right now I am crazy angry. I am thinking about the soldiers that were murdered by Saddam Fedayeen as they were surrendering. I am thinking about the milions of people out of work because of a bad economy as Bush asks Congress for 75 *Billion* dollars to pay for this mess. This is the first time I have gotten really mad about the whole fiasco and I don't know who to get mad at!

So that is how my thoughts have changed about the war.
Apo a me ka ponumomi,
me


Fuzzy Bunnies Are Good Though!! Mar 26th. at 3:42:03 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


Feribear, I am glad to hear that some are maintaining their focus on the important things. Our soldiers and civilians are our top priority (meaning pagans priority, not military so just sit down;-) ) and I agree those things that I am seeing about Fedayeen Saddam doing those kinds of guerilla tactics made me angry. It is hard to stay focused with the amount of divided minds in the world right now. I see people just shooting energy into all sorts of directions and that is causing alot of division in people. Lines are being drawn and no one wants to budge. I hope that one day we can fight fire with marshmellows and win. I hope that our troops quickly return to family members. And We will see a new Iraqi president. And despite all the yeah but this country did this and that that is the main focus I have and we must continue to do so. I am curious about the "convienient" sandstorms that line themselves infront of our troops and get stronger the closer we get to baghdad. Luckily those are now gone. But I would hate to think someone is trying to prevent troops from getting in just to proove an anti-war stance through magick. just a thought.


Well.. Mar 26th. at 3:52:40 pm UTC

Neko (Calgary, Canada) Age: 20 - Email


I was against this war before it happened. But now that it's happening it wouldn't be very productive to be still against it. That is the last sort of energies that the soilders need right now.

I think now that war is actually happening we need to stop focusing on the negativity of the situation and try to lend some positive healing energies to the situation in hopes that it will help the soilders from America and Britian. Hostility towards this situation will just make things worse I think.. Atleast that's my humble oppinion..

Hating something isn't going to fix it or stop it.. it's a useless expression.. It's better to try to put something positive into the situation, or atleast walk away with something positive we can learn and grow from. Even in these dark times there are lessons to be learned and new opportunities being presented..


HELL NO Mar 26th. at 4:49:21 pm UTC

DAN MAGICK (QUÉBEC CITY) Age: 43 - Email


No I have not changed my mind and since seeing what the war machine just did to that market in Bagdad I think that those who support this war are acomplices to the deaths of all who will die in this war.
If you care about the lives of the troops and their families you will march with us rather than supporting those who are getting killed and whining about how protesters are impolite.


Dan, Then Step Aside And Let The Rest Of Us Heal.. Mar 26th. at 5:08:08 pm UTC

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email


If you really want to hold on to your hate, stand on the sidelines and tell all of us that people who support the war are the killers. That is your right as a free citizen, but don't get upset when you find yourself left in the dust. While the rest of us have moved on.


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