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Posted: Sep. 8, 2002
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Question of the Week: 83 - 10/27/2002
Time to Talk Politics and Elections…
Eek! It’s the silly season again.
For U.S. Pagans/Heathens: The U.S. is holding mid-term elections Nov. 5th. Will you be voting? What are the issues that are most important to you? Do you vote by issue or by party? Do you have any thoughts on how it will turn out?
Non-U.S. Pagans/Heathens: The U.S. is woefully ignorant about your political processes. Please enlighten us. How many parties do you have? What are the names of the parties and what platforms do they represent? Do you have 'liberals' and 'conservatives'? How often do you vote? Do you elect representatives? How do you contact these representatives about your issues?
As always while talking politics, discussions can become heated. Please stay on the issues and do not resort to personal attacks. Further discussions should be taken to e-mail.
| Reponses: There are 109 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| Europe ||Nov 7th. at 12:57:12 am EST|
|Calixto (Richmond VA) ||Age: 30 - Email |
If you think Europe is necessaily accepting of us, you might have a shock coming.
In France certain religico-magickal orders have been *banned* (such as the OTO). In France and Germany, bureaucrats and politicians have the power to restrict or limit religions based on whether they consider it a "cult" (and they have broad discretion in making this decision). In England, Norway, Sweden, and other places there is a State Church, usually with low attendance...and its no longer common to discriminate against non-members...though the old laws may be on the books in places.
If you wish to go, good luck. My personal preference is not for the socio-economic or even political system (proportional representation), so its not a necessarily preferable place for several reasons. Nor do I relish the idea of going somewhere where my religious order is banned. :(
| Actually, I Already Know This ||Nov 7th. at 1:26:25 am EST|
|Aedh Rua UiMhorrigu (NewRichmond, WI) ||Age: 36 - Email |
A couple of years ago, I almost gave up my job search in the United States, and started one overseas. I didn't because I knew that Europe was hardly a panacea, and that I thought that there were decent parts of the United States. And so there are, but these areas are tiny island in a vast wasteland.
The French law is a reason why France might be less than desirable as a destination. The German law, I am told by people who live there, is not applied against Pagans groups. If this information should prove wrong, and there is plenty of time to find out, then I would cross Germany off the list. The Scandinavian countries do have state churches, and Denmark recently refused to give state money to Asatru groups. However, this underscores the fact that the Asatru were able to ask. In Britain, Paganism is growing even more rapidly than in the United States. As in America, there are isolated incidents of local persecution, but those are suaully followed by apologies, and often by public indignation against the persecutors. In other incidents, Pagans are getting recognition in such areas as participation in determining the use
of megalithic monuments.
In any case, European countries are only a few of several possible destinations. There must be some country which we can support. I refuse to accept that the best I can hope for is a choice between always looking over my shoulder, or being open about my religion, and therefore living in the ghetto.
It should be noted that all any of the people who have told me to stay can come up with is either "you coward", or "things are even worse somewhere else". That isn't good enough. No one has yet been able to say that Pagans are really safe in the United States, or that there is any realistic chance of the United States ever again devleoping a culture I can respect. All a negative appraoch does is to convince me that not only America, but indeed the world is a wasteland, and that there is very little reason to live, in ANY country.
Somehow I doubt that is the point you are trying to make. Or is it?
| Vote! ||Nov 7th. at 1:41:39 pm EST|
|KJD (New Hampshire) ||Age: 23 - Email |
This Pagan voted Republican! I register as 'undecided' because
I have no problem crossing party line when I believe in what is
being said. But unofficially, I am Republican, and generally vote
| Irusan ||Nov 7th. at 1:49:18 pm EST|
|KJD (New Hampshire) ||Age: 23 - Email |
Ease-up! Guns are not illegal. If you're not inclined to learn how to use one then fine, but no one should have to answer for themselves about being able to shoot one - whether or not they do it as a hobby or not. Now, I grew up with guns in the house and responsible parents, I don't like handeling one and I don't like shooting one...But, I know how to do it. Why? Because if I was ever to be put into a violent situation by someone and there was a gun involved, and I was able to get ahold of the gun I would know how to protect myself. So lets remember that opinions are just that... and to each their own.
| "Ease-up! Guns Are Not Illegal." ||Nov 8th. at 12:28:25 pm EST|
|Jack Flash (Stockbridge, Mass.) ||Age: 52 - Email |
And right you are, AND 11,000 Americans were executed by 'shottin irons' last year alone (mostly domestic killings).
The Bush cartel knows you want your guns and that FOR that you will give them your vote and everything else they want. I am sure the democrats know that as well, but the republicans have you convinced that the democrats will take away your guns (not a chance).
I like the 2nd amendment too... it is there so that the people have the option to 'rise up and overthrow' a govenment if it plays to a small group of special interests and NOT to the tax payer/common wo/man.
I am real curious as to how A battle between the everyday joes/janes and their own brothers/sisters in the us military would play out. -- I would think that to stand a prayer the avg. citizens would need some serious weapons/fire power instead of just pop shooters and huntin rifles JUST be in the game. Shouldn't the common man be building up a collection of tanks, missles and stuff? otherwise isn't the whole reason for the 2nd amendment lost?
| Oh, That's Easy ||Nov 8th. at 2:32:31 pm EST|
|Aedh Rua UiMhorrigu (New Richmond, WI) ||Age: 36 - Email |
The Second Amendment is still bad for tyrants even if the people are heavily outgunned by the military. Why? One word: assassination. Even the best of rulers has to worry about the occasional Lone Nutcase who can shoot well. How much worse is it with a tyrannical ruler? And no, I am NOT advocating assassination, merely observing one of the facts of history........
This doesn't change the fact that the current adminstration is busily removing every part of the Bill of Rights except the Second Amendment, and the thing about quartering soldiers. We wouldn't want them to be quartering soldiers, now would we?
Another observation: it is far from clear that the average American soldier would in fact shoot at Joe or Jane Citizen. Officers who gave such an order may find the soldiers' guns pointed the other way. The officers, right up to the top brass, know this well, which is why they are notoriously reluctant to use the military in any kind of domestic operation. If Shrub gets too far out of hand, he might find himself overthrown by his generals. This, of course, would only apply if the vast majority of the public were opposed to Shrub's policies. In the case of persecuting Pagans, the average citizen is likely to be amazingly unconcerned.
IMAGE: Gumby Imbread, the average American citizen, is sitting in his living room in West Bumfuck, Ohio, watching TV. An announcement comes on of a Witch-burning to be held. Cut to Gumby, his mouth drooling slightly. He speaks. "Kool. 'Em's gone burn some Witches. I ga go see's 'at. I bets all be able to hear's 'em scream, an' evertheng. I wan' see blood, an' people die". Fade to black.
It's a pretty sad day when the main hope of America is that of so many Third World hellholes: when the military turn on the dictator, how much can he get away with before there is a coup?
I want to be clear that in my harsh criticism of the American nation, and in my desire to find some other nation, I am not just a disgruntled liberal. As Myrddin pointed out, the Democrats have also been working side by side with the Republicans for decades to dismantle everything worthwhile about American society. The nasty, oppressive, puritanical fundies have their mirror in nasty, oppressive, puritanical PC. The fundies, however, are stronger, so I oppose them, in hopes of one day defeating the fundies, and then turning on PC, so it, too, can be defeated.
The present election, however, is one of literally hundreds of events in the last decades which have convinced me that the degeneration of the American soul has gone far too far to ever be repaired.
| Voting, Ect. ||Nov 8th. at 9:33:12 pm EST|
|Don (Charleston, SC) ||Age: 29 - Email |
Ok, I did not vote in this election, that was because I have not changed my regestration to my new adress and because I prefer to to vote for the least idiotic of the idiots. I register as an independent because I vote for what a person tries to do, not for the party that sponsers them.
As far as the 2nd goes, I've been shooting guns every since I could hold them(my father is x army), and I own an shoot them to this day. Violence has nothing to do with it, I enjoy testing my skills and tweaking the weapon to work for me, and that is no different than the martial arts I practice or the swords I work out with(I hope to never have to any reason to use any of these skills, but to defend me and mine, I will remember what 2 people taught me over the years... 1. If they want your wallet, give them your wallet, it is nothing more than an aggravation...if they want to hurt you or yours, run them straight over by any means neccesary, and 2 if you must fight, a sword in one hand and a gun in another.....). For those who voted, good for you, I'm glad you did what you could to improve our government, and for those who refuse to vote, please don't fuss about the people who were voted into office, you had a chance to be noticed(even if it was as a decimal of a percentage point), so accept and vote next time.
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