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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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Responses: [2,666]

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 16,993,515  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 258

Lurker/Post Ratio: 127 to 1

Question of the Week: 104 - 3/24/2003

Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq?

Many people were initially for or against the possibility of a war in Iraq. Now that it is a reality and troops are on the ground, have you changed your mind or your position on the war?

Do you think that anti-war protests should cease? Do you think that an even greater divide has opened up between those who hold differing ideologies?

Do you think that the suspension of certain civil liberties for security reasons is appropriate during war time? Do YOU feel safer? Will the world be more secure because of this action?

What – if anything – concerns you the most about the war in Iraq?

 Reponses:   There are 258 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

Arguments Apr 5th. at 7:07:44 pm EST

squib (oregon) Age: 33 - Email

Skeggi (and anyone else) , if you wish to draw people into arguments about their opinions, i don't think this is the place to do it. I personally don't feel the need to defend my opinion or my belief. You can email me or invite me to a discussion elsewhere, and anyone else you disagree with, but i'm not going to bite and be drawn into a fracas here, where the editors have graciously given us a forum to state our opinions and specifically asked us NOT to engage in arguing or 'attacking' other people. Obviously, i'm not the only one who thinks like i do, and obviously, not all pagans think the same. And if we did, what would that make us?

So thanks for agreeing to disagree and leaving it at that. The divine light in me honors the divine light in you.

Pray For Safety Of Troops And Civilians, Quick End Of War Apr 5th. at 10:01:39 am EST

gabriela (Woodinville, WA) Age: 35 - Email

The war has been been a gray area for me. I don't think it is wrong to remove Saddam's regime, he is a psycho who has committed atrocities against his own people. But my heart was breaking for all who would suffer as we anticipated the beginning of this war.
American troops are now in Iraq whether we like it or not. War is happening and we cannot turn back. I don't see the purpose of any more war debate (finish the war and help the Iraqi people move on) . It would better serve the situation to put our energy into prayers or rituals to whatever deity we are aligned with, asking for safe return of our troops, civilian safety and a brighter future for Iraq. I believe that by starting this war, our country and Britain and others have committed ourselves to helping the Iraqi people build a more humane government and establish a free, prosperous society.
Now that the war is under way, i feel that i must be supportive to our courageous troops and urge our government to follow through with helping the Iraqi people restore their dignity and livelihood.

Freedom Of Expression Apr 5th. at 9:32:16 am EST

Spirit Walker (Long Island, NY) Age: 44 - Email

I haven't changed my mind about this war. Saddam had to be removed. No one can invision what kind of politics went on in the UN. Why would countries like France and Germany and Russia decide to go against us? Only time will tell.

As for protesters both for and against the war...we have this right to do so. As it has been said by many, we may not agree with the anti-war protesters, but we will fight to the death to give and keep that right. Should they be allowed to disrupt others lives with their protests? NO! Let them do their 'Die Ins' in the middle of field where they will not disrupt the truck driver trying to make deliveries.

As for suspending our civil liberties...not a chance. No one has the right to do so for any reason. And that includes national defense. If we allow it, even temporily, we give someone the chance to push a wedge in further.

As for our current administration... I can only say that at best [or worst?] he can only be in office for another 4 years. Then it will be someone else's turn to make 'their mark'.

So remember....VOTE!!!

Walk A Mile In A Mans Shoes Apr 5th. at 8:50:02 am EST

melissa (Ephrata, Pennsylvania) Age: 27 - Email

Yes, I have changed my opinion on the war in Iraq. I changed my mind the day I imagined what it must be like to live in a society like that. I changed my mind the day I wondered what it would be like if someone where to overthrow our government and take away my rights. I changed my mind when I realised I would want others to come to my aid. Perhaps we should all close our eyes and imagine what it would be like if that happened in our countries. Would our opinions change?

THE DANGERS OF PATRIOTISM Apr 5th. at 6:47:04 am EST

elf (england (unfortunately)) Age: 23 - Email

You know, reading your responses makes me think two things.

Patriotism is the most dangeorus thing. In America you have far too much of it. It means that you see people from other countries as being different from you and this is not good. When someone from a certain country does something bad against an American, you see that as being an attack by this country on America. We are all just people, we all feel the same way and at the end of the day, we are really all one. I think Patriotism is the root of evil in this case.

Also, this is not meant to upset people, but some posts I have read sound worryingly far-right wing. I am suprised to find that on a site like this one.

Sigh At Demetrius Apr 5th. at 3:36:37 am EST

Skeggi (NZ) Age: 32 - Email

Yes I do believe that when you are defending your country against an ilegal invasion force that outguns you completely, you may use any means to defend your country.
Have you forgotten how you defeated the English?
You put your faith in the rule of arms not law, and becoming a monster to defeat a monster defeats only the purpose.
You and yourr aliies are responsible for all the deaths in this very avoidable war.
P.S. I am glad I live in a different world mate, try reality occasionally you might like it.

I Have To Post This.. Apr 4th. at 9:12:26 pm EST

MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, USA) Age: 39 - Email

I was wondering why they would need DNA testing to determine who the troops were that were buried in the pit near Jessica (Go Girl Power!!!!) Lynch. Silly me. Heard on the radio that it is *rumored* the troops were hacked to bits & pieces.. Hence the need for DNA testing. Yeah, we are the monsters here.. Give me a frelling BREAK! I hope we return the favor when we find saddam & sons but we won't because we are NOT barbarians. Hacked to pieces. Who frelling deserves that??? I think it says quite a lot and I wish this little tidbit would make it to world news if it is indeed true. Makes me pretty mad. Those poor parents on both sides of this. May their God comfort them in the days to come.

I too am glad to be hearing the stories and seeing the pictures of happy Iraqi's. I also think it's comical to see other countries starting to turn around on this now that they see that the hard work is nearly done and there is money to be made in rebuilding. Kiss Our American (and the rest of the troops) Behind! Sorry I'm testy but thinking about people being hacked to pieces really boils my brain. Yeah..we're the bad ones here...puhleeeeezzzzeee!

Go Troops!!! Kick ass & take names and show them what humanity is all about.. saddam & sons heads on pikes for all Iraqi's to do with as they choose.

This attitude makes me less of a Pagan? Yeah, right.... Says who? Never claimed to be a fluffy bunny. Sometimes it takes violence to have peace.

p.s. I still haven't found 5, 000. dead either. But after hearing about this little rumor (that's probably true) I really don't care how many republican guards get killed as long as we free the people who deserve it...

One ticked off, heartsick MoonOwl..

Yes, I Have Changed My Mind As Matter Of Fact. Apr 4th. at 4:50:22 pm EST

Kathy Hoover (Lexington South Carolina) Age: 44 - Email

When all this war "stuff" began I have to admit I was against it. Having live (bearly) thru the Vietnam era I would still have chills at remembering my father coming home from that war with the look in his face that would scare any 7 year old. And me turning a deaf ear certainly did not stop Bush from proceding with this crazy idea of going after Sadam. The media in this contry is something I refuse to belive in, so instead I asked around. I work with another nurse who comes from Iraq. He got his citizenship in 1998 with his wife. Several things this person said stuck with me. One was as I suspected was that the media was jewish based. Ha -- figure that! But in listening him talk about Iraq I could not help but feel sorry for him and his past life in his home land. It was almost as if he is scared to admit outloud that Sadam is a crazy man. He would almost whisper this statement. The little things such as women in this country being hit, raped, even murdered sounded like a joke compaired to the life in Iraq. This nurse I work with summed up the suicide bombers as this "if a group of men busted into your home in the middle of the night took your children out the the front yard raped and killed them would you not be a little suicidal?". At the age of 17 this nurse was walking down the street. A group of men stopped him and accused him of throwing a rock, which to this day he denies. They stripped him down and raped and beat him. IN the street -- in front of a crowd. I wondered how he got thru all this -- odly enough he was a psyhc nurse first.
After listening to this nurses story I began to "look" at the pictures coming from Iraq. Notice I said look -- I would turn down the the volume. The look on the Kurds faces in fear, the look at the smug face of Laden. But the most horrifying look I have seen this week is the look on the 19 year olds face that got rescuded. I just had to turn up the volume on this -- broken arms broken legs broken back and a car battery? And I could just about swear I saw a trach in place.
Now I am curious just how long are we as a strong country, the "big brother" suppose to stand by and watch all this inhumaine treatment go on. Keep the deaf ear turned the other way? We have been sitting around and oh "asking" Sadam to stop. We got no where -- United Nations got no where. How long? It has been a long time since we have seen some one with smallpox -- it's not pretty. But the pus that pores from this virus looks like the pus that has pored from this leader that has done all this damage. As a critical care nurse I fight death every day -- all a pt has to say to me is "I don't want to die" and you have my commitment -- heart and soul. In all honesty -- I would have to hand over this SOB on a silver platter. Yes dieing would be to easy on Sadam, especaily for those of us who belive there is no hell. But what do you do with someone who has taken their maddness out on the world and made it look like candy?
Yes now I am for going after this bast---. Not has one country against another, as one humane being for another. Weather we like it or not we are our "brothers keeper" and "sisters keeper" as well. This country does not have the option of a solid one race. We are different colors and race and opinions, and everything else. As for me and my house -- my doors are open for those who have never known freedom, never known justice, and never had the chance becuase of some mad man at the helm.
And quick somebody go lock Jane Fonda in the closet before she hears about this war.

Occupying Force?!? Apr 4th. at 2:22:04 pm EST

Demetrius (Portland, OR) Age: 21 - Email

Just as an extra figured I'd throw out a link from the BBC about this soccer game that the British soldiers played with the civilians of Iraq. Doesn't look like to me that the Iraqi people think we're occupying/invading/taking over either. If anything from the reports I've seen most of the civilians are welcoming the troops yes there was the incident in one of the Shiite's most holy cities where they didn't want our soldiers in the Mosque there at all. That is perfectly understandable coming from their point of view. Anyway the link's below for the soccer game, how about getting more of this information out that alot of people in Iraq are welcoming what we're doing there, and that to me is the biggest indicator that we should be there.


-Demetrius Link to More info related to this post -- HERE

OH And Forgot One Thing Skeggi....... Apr 4th. at 1:26:23 pm EST

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email

I am still waiting to find out the source for that estimate of 5, 000 iraqis dead. and I have been actively looking with the hope that I would find it so I could give ya credit. but sadly, I have yet to see it and you have yet to produce it for us.

No No No No Apr 4th. at 1:18:18 pm EST

Maleciah (Oregon) Age: 25 - Email

Wolf Kyzel (Illinois, U.S.A.) Age: 38 - Email

"Peace is never wrong and war is never right. It would be completely hypocritical for someone who calls him/herself
Pagan to ever support a war."

Wolf, you sound no different to me than a pastor telling me I am going to hell for my beliefs. you are not the "pagan pope" as some said and you do not dictate who is pagan and who is not. I don't tell you that you are any less of a pagan for your beliefs so do not attempt to tell me what I am.

Skeggi, You know if they engaged us head on it would never be a fair fight as their military is already massively at a disadvantage. Links to Al Qaeda may be thin but the money he sends to those of many other groups for many other reasons is still just as much of a threat. and if this was not the choice you would have done. I am glad you weren't the one who had anything to do with the planning of it. You are again spouting tons of hypothetical and are not basing or posting any source to back up the claims you do make. when you do, I will take your opinion seriously.

This isn't charmed and the lines of good and evil are not as easy to see as you would like them to be. I am with Nokomis, we are not warmongers, and we all don't live our lives on the set of the WB. We are not all white lighters and we don't all have potions that produce special effects. Peace will be attained when the world is finally full of people who actually want peace. we are not there yet. And had we not had so many people demanding a resolution from the UN during the gulf war to oust Saddam (just like this time) then then we would not be having this conversation now. But I can tell you last time, had we done it then, there would have been more casualties than this time. Please get some fact to back up what you say. it helps us all to be able to validate and understand your point and what caused you to form that opinion!

WTG Nokomis, *sigh* At Skeggi Apr 4th. at 12:41:19 pm EST

Demetrius (Portland, OR) Age: 21 - Email

First off right on target Nokomis, not all pagans are all peace and love and happiness all the time, destruction *is* sometimes necessary to achieve a greater good and to help evolution proceed. Look at nature and you see this EVERYWHERE, the yin and the yang, black and white, order and chaos it all has it's purpose in this world. Yes, war *will* become outdated someday but only if cancerous elements such as Saddam are removed and expunged from the earth.

Secondly, Skeggi, do you live in a different world than I? It just seems there must be some rose-colored glasses being passed about. You seem to think it's justified that the Iraqi forces hole up in civilian targets or major historical and religious sites? Let's just think how silly that is and how much that really shows how little Saddam cares for anyone but himself. No the terrorism in this world will not immediately cease because of Saddam being gone, but I'll tell you one thing you don't have those $25k checks going to all the suicide bomber's familys anymore and that's a very good thing in my eyes (not sure if the view from the rose-colored glasses is the same, let me know?)

Oh and on WMD, you seriously expect us to find those immediately when we're still securing a country the size of California? I have no doubt that some will be found, the amount that we'll find I don't know. However, just with the track record Saddam has, I have no doubt he has them and may still intend to use them. That is a great fear of mine and I am working to stop that in any way I can seeing as that would more greatly affect the civilians in and around Baghdad than it would our troops.



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