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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 5,884,859  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 32

Lurker/Post Ratio: 1023 to 1

Question of the Week: 36 - 4/9/2001

Should the United States Apologize to China

Hopefully, the tense situation between China and the U.S. will resolved soon and the flight crew will come home. Should the United States apologize to help make that happen? Both sides state that the other side is at fault. Is it national pride, administration politics or just plain stubbornness at work here? Both countries came out early with the saber rattling. Did they both say too much, too soon and now must 'save face' and not back away from that position? How do Pagans in other countries view this incident? Does pride really cometh before a fall? Is principle or practicality more important in certain situations? If you were running things, what would YOU do?

 Reponses:   There are 32 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Apologize! The Crew Needs To Be Set Free! Until The Us Gives... Apr 10th. at 10:40:25 pm UTC

Kira Rae (Hopkinsville, Kentucky US) Age: 35


APOLOGIZE! The crew needs to be set free! Until the us gives China that big "We are sorry, We made a mistake, Its our fault" China will hold the crew. 'Save Face'? Oh come on! Right now the main issue should be the crew and doing what it takes to set them free.


The Us Government Should Just Swallow Its Pride And Say Sorry. How... Apr 10th. at 4:34:38 pm UTC

AndrasteM (NYC, New York US) Age: 35


The US government should just swallow its pride and SAY SORRY. How hard can that be ? It WAS a spy plane after all, not some innocent little passanger jet that strayed off course. Say sorry and get the crew home.


Has Anyone Thought Of The Legal Implications Of An Apology? An Apology... Apr 10th. at 2:24:27 pm UTC

Monica (Ft. Walton Beach, Florida US) Age: 30


Has anyone thought of the legal implications of an apology? An apology could lead the way for China to bring wrongful death suits against the US or even the individual crew members. China doesn't want the US to apologize, they want us to say we were wrong in spying on them. That could then begin an international legal free-for-all. The Chinese have been flying entirely too close the the US planes for some time now and you can't tell me that a jet couldn't get out of the way of a propeller plane unless the jet was where it shouldn't have been in the first place.


I Recall The Republicans Ranting And Railing During The Lewinsky Scandal About... Apr 10th. at 1:41:56 pm UTC

Jen Bryan (Cedar Park, Texas US) Age: 28


I recall the Republicans ranting and railing during the Lewinsky scandal about the effect our previous President's behavior would have on the morals of the nation, and how what he did was presenting the wrong type of leadership role model for the nation's children.

As a mother, I know that I teach my son to apologize. I teach him to apologize for things that he does deliberately, as well as to apologize for things he does that cause adverse affects on someone or something else by accident. If he trips over our cat, he apologizes to her and he kisses her on the nose even if he didn't see that cat in front of him - just in case he hurt her by not paying attention.

I suppose my three year old knows right and wrong better than our current President, because we all know well how and when to apologize for something that hurts someone else. While it doesn't surprise me that the Republicans are again hypocrits, feeling themselves above common decency and courtesy simply because the Chinese government is Communist and therefor "different", it does make me ashamed of my leadership.

Not to mention the fact that George W. is demonstrating the opposite of the values I try to instill in my son. Pot, Kettle, Mr. Bush. Apologize.


China Should Have A Joint Investigation To See Who Is Really At... Apr 10th. at 1:34:49 pm UTC

Frederico A. Dacenzo (Williamsport, Pennsylvania US) Age: 22 - Email


China should have a joint investigation to see who is really at fault in this, then go from thier.


In Response To Theresa's Post... An Inexperienced Pilot In A New *jet... Apr 10th. at 12:48:20 pm UTC

Sam-I-Am (Lawrenceville, Georgia US) Age: 29


In response to Theresa's post...
An inexperienced pilot in a new *jet* fighter should not have been sent to intercept the larger, slower aircraft. It is unfortunate that the pilot died but, high risk is part of spying. Some people feel spying is wrong; it's a necessary tool of our social and cultural structure. Clandestine operations have been written about since the beginning of recorded time.

I dont think either government should apologize to the other. I do agree with another post; both sides should apologize to the pilot's family.

People want someone to blame for a tragedy. But, when a police officer is involved in a wreck (and dies) with a civilian car during a high speed chase, we don't blame the civilian.

The world is too complicated to say us & them; good & bad.
May the Goddess bless and protect those who protect us (& them).


Both Sides Are Milking This For Cynical Crowd (cattle?) Control Reasons. In... Apr 10th. at 7:48:46 am UTC

Mark Taylor (Snoqualmie, Washington US) Age: 48 - Email


Both sides are milking this for cynical crowd (cattle?) control reasons.
In any espionage game, there are NO "Good Guys", it's measured evil vs evil.
To identify with either side in this sort of conflict is to take on the mantle as a supporter of this sort of activity.
Maybe it's inevitable in the power games of empires, but that is no reason to take a side.
My best guess is that when they grow tired of this standoff, they'll find a way out that won't interfere with the much bigger money and trade game.
Don't get me wrong - I'm far from being apolitical, but stupidity on this scale is very difficult to get excited about. Same as two rival gangs playing chicken on the freeway!
I think the Bush administration should apologize to the American people and the Chinese government to the Chinese people. Will it happen? Ha!


Personally, I Think We Should Give The Chinese Government An Ultimatum. I... Apr 10th. at 7:34:17 am UTC

sekhmetsat (columbus, Ohio US) Age: 30


personally, i think we should give the chinese government an ultimatum. i have always been against any involvement with the chinese, unless and until they become a democracy. The fundies can take over localities, where they have a MAJORITY. they can't take over the US because they are a MINORITY. there are too many interests nowadays with more political clout against the fundy pacs.


Okay, I'll Repost, As Requested! I Really Think We Should All Stop... Apr 10th. at 5:28:53 am UTC

Jools (Rhyl, England UK) Age: 34 - Email


Okay, I'll repost, as requested! I really think we should all stop being so touchy - we all know that our own government spies on other governments, and that they spy on us ( including the ones we're supposed to be allied to), so what's all the fuss for? The crew of the downed USA plane and their families have been put through all this trauma for what is, basically, the posturing and gesticulation of various governmental departments. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE, the American crew and the family of the Chinese pilot, not the blustering of various governmental officials. What was wrong with administering any and all necessary first aid to the downed crew, giving them a brief " slap on the wrists" speech, and handing them back to the USA with a mutual shrug of the political shoulders and an "okay, you caught us" or "okay, we caught you"? Then the USA could have sent a private apology to the Chinese pilot's family ( though I, too, find it hard to believe that an ultra-mobile thing like a fighter couldn't avoid that huge plane), and everyone would have been happy? It infuriates me that the victims of this incident have become pawns in the inter-govermental chess game - and why is it that the minute adults get involved with politics, they all turn in to playground whingers?!


Blessing Out To The Pilot That Is Missing Or Killed. I Will... Apr 10th. at 12:37:19 am UTC

Riki Crosado (Christchurch, New Zealand) Age: 34 - Email


Blessing out to the pilot that is missing or killed. I will ask one simple question. What would the US do if a chinese SPY plane had to land on us soil? I think it is right to protect the intrests of your country. I think the US is wrong here to be spying on other countrys. The chinese are only protecting thier soil. I don't back the chinese, and I don't think the chinese government is a evil that will end one day soon. But in the end, the US plane was spying on the chinese. That is wrong. I only hope that the US government apologizes soon so that the crew of the SPY plane can go home!


I Know That We Are Not Supposed To Post More Than One... Apr 9th. at 9:14:07 pm UTC

Aedh Rua (Prophetstown, Illinois US) Age: 35 - Email


I know that we are not supposed to post more than one opinion, but, just to be clear, when I write about American Pagans relocating to another country, China is not remotely the one I have in mind. I am sure there are some nice quasi-neutral nations somewhere which are willing to welcome us, and to stay out of silly squabbles over nothing.

Neither China nor the United States would appear to be that country.


This Whole Mess Has Nothing To Do With Who Was At Fault... Apr 9th. at 8:59:11 pm UTC

Tanais (Spokane, Washington US) Age: 20


This whole mess has nothing to do with who was at fault. Chinese hate Americans and Americans hate Chinese. Ok I'm over simplifying but that's the basic stance with our conflicting governments. Nobody can convince me that the Cinese government cares what happened to their pilot. They want to spin this to their advantage. Get some aviation and intelligence gathering technology from the United States while pretending to be a victim. Then we have our "fearless leader" Bush listening to one too many lawyers instead of bringing the detained Americans home. Bush is also trying to spin this crisis to his political advantage by making him look like the good guy in the eyes of the Americans and compitent in the eyes of the rest of the Republican party by listening to his lawyers. Anyone else find it convenient the wife of the missing pilot was crying in bed asking for an appology from the United States? I've never been married but my first reaction wouldn't be to lay blame on a foriegn government. The loss of life doesn't even register with the leaders of these countries. China has committed horrible atrocities for many years but nobody on the news is talking about that. They are talking about how this death effects the Bush presidency. Tibetans get massacred but it took the death of one pilot for the US to threaten "strained relations". What is wrong with that sentence? All the while this is going on an innocent woman lost the man she loves and she is having her grief used as mass propeganda. All I can say is we sorta elected Bush and all I can do is prey he decides to do the right thing.


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